Move veg clones to late flower/flush in same system - can it work ? Foliar bypass ?

[Random user 8282737373]

So I'm wondering if it's possible to move vegged clones ready to flower while another set in the same hydro system are in the final two weeks and flushing out. Could the clones have enough weaker nutrient solution while another set flush out ? Could foliar feeding bypass that the root system isn't getting at the start ? Is there too much disparity in res strengths in that 2 week time period ? Share some thoughts. If anyone has done what I'm thinking of let me know how it worked or didn't. This is only in respects to flowering at early and late stages in the same unit, Thanks

 

[HempKat]

I've never done that but even if I had I grow in soil so I could just simply give each plant what it needs according to what part of the process it's in. I would advise against it, a plant moving into flower is going thru the stretch phase and as such needs the proper supply of nutrients for optimal health and growth whereas plants that are close to finishing need little to no nutrients as they can just feed off what's already stored in the leaves. Sure a plant fully vegged has nutrition stored in it's leaves too but since leaves die off when the plant feeds off them it would be robbing the buds of the critically needed drivers of their growth once the stretch phase ends. You might be able to get away with it but it would likely have a fairly negative impact on your ultimate yield.

 

[Random user 8282737373]

plant moving into flower is going thru the stretch phase and as such needs the proper supply of nutrients for optimal health and growth whereas plants that are close to finishing need little to no nutrients as they can just feed off what's already stored in the leaves. Sure a plant fully vegged has nutrition stored in it's leaves too but since leaves die off when the plant feeds off them it would be robbing the buds of the critically needed drivers of their growth once the stretch phase ends. You might be able to get away with it but it would likely have a fairly negative impact on your ultimate yield.

Yeah, this is my concern IF the 2 weeks could be enough to "get away" w it, but it does sound like concentration wouldn't be high enough, though could foilar nightly be the bridge to get to harvest is the idea I'm thinking of. Only during the 2 weeks too. I know foliar is stopped after because of mold issues

 

[HempKat]

Yeah, this is my concern IF the 2 weeks could be enough to "get away" w it, but it does sound like concentration wouldn't be high enough, though could foilar nightly be the bridge to get to harvest is the idea I'm thinking of. Only during the 2 weeks too. I know foliar is stopped after because of mold issues

I've never been a big fan or foliar feeding. I figure an occasional misting with just water is okay but never liked the idea of trying to get nutrients into the plant thru the leaves rather then the roots.

 

[Random user 8282737373]

Yes I know some growers have different practices, however what got me thinking about this is what happened during my 3rd week, and not realizing Happy Frog soil being hot and coming out of a toxic res by faulty PPM reading, so I had to be hopeful correcting deficiency, particularly Mg-Cal and some N by foilar feeding and avoiding the root zone nearly burned, and it worked better than I hoped back to 100% health. I know the Happy Frog isn’t highly concentrated NPK so I’m wondering in theory if the same principle can work in a hydro res short term, so the roots get some and the rest can be equal to foilar up to increasing the nutrients and letting the roots take it for the duration of flowering...

 

[Switcher56]

Short strokes... I don't do hydro for that reason (can't individually feed). Foliar feeding is like using a band aid for a broken arm. Sooner or later it needs a cast.

 

[HempKat]

Yes I know some growers have different practices, however what got me thinking about this is what happened during my 3rd week, and not realizing Happy Frog soil being hot and coming out of a toxic res by faulty PPM reading, so I had to be hopeful correcting deficiency, particularly Mg-Cal and some N by foilar feeding and avoiding the root zone nearly burned, and it worked better than I hoped back to 100% health. I know the Happy Frog isn’t highly concentrated NPK so I’m wondering in theory if the same principle can work in a hydro res short term, so the roots get some and the rest can be equal to foilar up to increasing the nutrients and letting the roots take it for the duration of flowering...

You can always try compensating with foliar but I just don't think the leaves can take up nutrition at the rate you would want, to offset what's missing in the hydro system. Still it's only for a fairly short time so it might be worth testing?

 

[Random user 8282737373]

That's what I'm thinking since it's only the first 2 weeks and if it can work, the interval of harvest is reduced and actually hits my 35 day target. I think testing this on 2 separate clones right in the final 2 weeks of cycle 1 to see what happens, deficiency, lock out OR can a nightly early strength P feeding bridge the gap, maybe just enough or better than I thought results. As you said, worth the test and then we'll all know is this actually applicable or theory that's not in the reality of chemistry. This is how I went about developing the micro steam quick dry and was able to share it w the cannabis community

 

[f-e]

The first two weeks of bloom, might be the most important two weeks in the cycle. All of veg, we prepare them for it. It's not worth bothering if that two weeks isn't 100%. It would be better to extend the cycle.

It sounds like a 7 week flower. In that two weeks they must take full control of that space. They can't share it with what they themselves might become. That is two full sized crops, in the same space. Yeah, they might stretch until 3 weeks, but at 2 weeks, they are there. That third week they are just crawling. No surprises. At two weeks, you are seeing groups of hairs that could be called buds. All the bud sites should be chosen and plants positioned and shaped to suit. The flowering plants can't still be there. Unless you are seriously wasting space, which I don't imagine you are.

If it's a tent, Could you put another floor in? If you extend to 8 weeks, that would be a crop every 4th weekend. Or stick at 7 weeks, but every 3.5 weeks, might be harder to plan your life around.

 

[Random user 8282737373]

The first two weeks of bloom, might be the most important two weeks in the cycle. All of veg, we prepare them for it. It's not worth bothering if that two weeks isn't 100%. It would be better to extend the cycle.

It sounds like a 7 week flower. In that two weeks they must take full control of that space. They can't share it with what they themselves might become. That is two full sized crops, in the same space. Yeah, they might stretch until 3 weeks, but at 2 weeks, they are there. That third week they are just crawling. No surprises. At two weeks, you are seeing groups of hairs that could be called buds. All the bud sites should be chosen and plants positioned and shaped to suit. The flowering plants can't still be there. Unless you are seriously wasting space, which I don't imagine you are.

If it's a tent, Could you put another floor in? If you extend to 8 weeks, that would be a crop every 4th weekend. Or stick at 7 weeks, but every 3.5 weeks, might be harder to plan your life around.

Very true f-e, but isn't the PPM around 800-1000 before it's really ramped up at the 3rd week ? So if there's a lighter PPM around 300 in a res and then foliar at 500 PPM doesn't that about equate the concentration of nutes ? IF there's no deficiency showing would that mean they're taking all the nutes they need at that stage ? It's actually 10 weeks maybe 12, Colombian Gold bag seed and OG Chocolate Haze. Now I get what you're saying about competing for space, and in my old grow I had to rigorously crimp, pinch and bend the tops down training them to grow off to sides due to height restrictions and running into glass shield of the light (air cooled hood) so I had to be creative managing 3-4' growing height, and I do know some plants can and do overshadow others in the stretch phase, so you have a good point is regards to canopy density becoming uneven, still w these new LED lights I have a Maxisisun 4000 and it's complete coverage 3x3 w low reaching 300 nm at the base and near 700 at the tops at 70%. I intended to go for serious light penetration so you may be thinking I don't have a strong light, this is monster in a 3x3. I needed evaporate coolers to keep temp right at 80. IF this was HID the traditional 12" which greatly diminishes below I'd say you're right and not possible being uneven, but I'm talking it's 24" w those readings, which can be customized dimming

Well I bought 2 tents, but after I found I could use both sides of a closet for mother, vegging chamber and having some more space to work around in, I decided not to put it up. I may keep it than return for the 2nd flower tent which obviously would be the first half, but that involves getting another light, another hydro system, the fans, about 250 after spending close to 3000, so I'm looking at that later on, though I don't relish working in tighter spaces so have to consider that. I think throwing in a clone or 2 to test than trying a whole batch, and just see and then I'll come back and note what did or didn't happen. I think I'll do a daily pic update to follow and everyone can see how that's turning out if they're interested. IF it fails I'll admit it's just theory but if somehow this bypass feeding proves effective then we will know it actually works.

 

[alpo]

I saw an experiment by rxgreentechnologies that concluded flushing has no noticeable benefits. (I haven't tried it)

https://www.rxgreentechnologies.com/rxgt_trials/flushing-trial/

 

[Random user 8282737373]

I saw an experiment by rxgreentechnologies that concluded flushing has no noticeable benefits. (I haven't tried it)

https://www.rxgreentechnologies.com/...lushing-trial/

Hmmm I have to disagree. I’ll tell ya why, it has to do w my micro steam dry. When growing synthetic (chemical) and doing a sample, the steam will make metals crack and pop. This is how you know it’s loaded to the hilt, later as the salts flush in both chemical and organic plant matter, that crackling isn’t there, and continues to reduce the further leaching into the final days. This is why my steam dry is PERFECT for gauging salt content left over. With organic it’s not as much, still washing out those excess salts DOES pronounce terpenes flavor profiles. I’ve done extensive tests during my former days, and I always swore flushing made noticeable difference and being cleaner burning too. You know it’s clean when it’s that fine white ash, nothing black in the center. IF it’s harder to burn in the center, it’s not been flushed out and makes the smoke harsher and harder to burn though. I’ve bought dispensary strains that weren’t flushed and just burned and tasted terrible. Part of the reason I’m growing again since I see mass commercial quality, and some growers just don’t give a crap and take their product that has mistakes to market. Those that don’t grow and have not one clue, so it’s an unknown to the vendors that get supply and I have had to call a few places on their quality control piss poor dry and cure being way under and rushed, I’ll read when they have concluded, but I know from a multitude of testing flushing excess salts that the plant had stored up DOES MAKE DIFFERENCE in the quality of smoke.

 

[f-e]

The first two weeks is transition. While some nute steering isn't a bad thing, many people stay on veg. It kinda depends when you P load. Some start loading with P and Ca in veg, while others are supplying it as needed in the transition weeks. The need for P to build good frames is important at this time. By mid way through, many have balanced P with K and later the P is of little use, while K is being pushed to fill them.
Perhaps if you just use a single feed mix right through flower, then it's the same at the beginning as the end. Bumping Ca would suit both stages. It seems reasonable. Foliar feeding is an odd one though. Often we are guided to use half strength. If you look at examples to fix a specific deficiency though, it's often double strength. Another issue is the efficiency of foliar feeding, for various components. IIRC it's K that doesn't really get taken. I recently did Ca and even with wetter it just sat on my leaves like powdery annoyance. I don't think they took in any by the looks of things. Mg works alright. I believe N is taken well. It's all rather unbalanced though. I know of people that joked they could keep a plant alive by foliar alone. With a degree of belief to what they were saying. It's a tough call...

Is it a drip system? Could you have two separate one's. Or spend a while hand watering.

I just can't imagine why there would be space for them. That's the real hurdle for me. The space should be full of buds.

 

[Random user 8282737373]

The first two weeks is transition. While some nute steering isn't a bad thing, many people stay on veg. It kinda depends when you P load. Some start loading with P and Ca in veg, while others are supplying it as needed in the transition weeks. The need for P to build good frames is important at this time. By mid way through, many have balanced P with K and later the P is of little use, while K is being pushed to fill them.
Perhaps if you just use a single feed mix right through flower, then it's the same at the beginning as the end. Bumping Ca would suit both stages. It seems reasonable. Foliar feeding is an odd one though. Often we are guided to use half strength. If you look at examples to fix a specific deficiency though, it's often double strength. Another issue is the efficiency of foliar feeding, for various components. IIRC it's K that doesn't really get taken. I recently did Ca and even with wetter it just sat on my leaves like powdery annoyance. I don't think they took in any by the looks of things. Mg works alright. I believe N is taken well. It's all rather unbalanced though. I know of people that joked they could keep a plant alive by foliar alone. With a degree of belief to what they were saying. It's a tough call...

Is it a drip system? Could you have two separate one's. Or spend a while hand watering.

I just can't imagine why there would be space for them. That's the real hurdle for me. The space should be full of buds.

Now we're cooking! This is good insight. Yes, the nute plan was to be NOTG simple line, but I'm finding out Ph rises way to fast in aerated water, so only going to be used in containers. I container grow mothers and seeds only. I just saw how risky it was doing seeds in hydro and for me I don't do chemicals in hydro. Organic hydro for the best flavor bar none, so I had to find a line for hydro, and I believe I've found it, Blue Planet Farmers Pride 3 part organic blend. The system, which I've debated canceling 1 and buying 3-4 ready DWC buckets instead for various stages is the Superponics 16 combination DWC/Drip/aeroponic and will cover 2/3's footprint of the tent, which is on a large back order, so the wait has been nearly a month and if it's that popular, maybe it means better results than simple air stone DWC buckets. When something is in high demand in the growing products, it usually tells me better end results using it. Anyway, back to the foilar question, and there's something I just remembered using right in that 2 weeks of pre-flowering called Spray N Grow, and and helped with trace elements having a god awful 8.0 Ph water, so lockout was common and I had to top feed. From what my old memory recalls, using that boosted flower sites everywhere, so I think the right mixture of trace and primary might do it. I also plan to use surfacant so it sticks to the surface. I think it will be a VERY INTERESTING experiment to see play out just using a few spare clones right before the final 2 weeks. I have 0 intention of doing a whole batch of clones, until I know it works and minimal detriment to health and flower production in between. I realize factors of light intensity and height will play a part in the overall results, the question is by how much and could the stretch be the catch up to joining where the rest were in the canopy. Again I'm theorizing a bridge between and if that bridge has the integrity to hold, which it may or may not do. If it's a bridge too far LOL, then that's what's conclusive at the end

 

[LostTribe]

What is your medium? Are you recirculating? How big are your vegged cuttings?

If you are recirculating you might be able to get away with it as normally the finishing plants will dump nutes back to the flush rez. You might get some deficiencies but under certain conditions I think it might work.

Can you add a second pump and rez?

Is that why your other post is asking for multiple rez?

But why are you talking about adding cuttings to finishing plants? I don't see any situation where you would have only finishing plants and cuts. Just keep the cuttings vegging, cut them back a wee bit if needed and reduce your lighting and feed until you can put them in to replace the finished.
LT

 

[Random user 8282737373]

What is your medium? Are you recirculating? How big are your vegged cuttings?

If you are recirculating you might be able to get away with it as normally the finishing plants will dump nutes back to the flush rez. You might get some deficiencies but under certain conditions I think it might work.

Can you add a second pump and rez?

Is that why your other post is asking for multiple rez?

But why are you talking about adding cuttings to finishing plants? I don't see any situation where you would have only finishing plants and cuts. Just keep the cuttings vegging, cut them back a wee bit if needed and reduce your lighting and feed until you can put them in to replace the finished.
LT

OK this is interesting...

My plan to is aero root clones or do rapid rooters. Vegging depends on timing, but I'm thinking about 28-35 to be ready for the 2nd cycle. Please keep in mind I'm only in the seed stage to get a sexed mother 2 strains for clones (4 weeks), rather taking the seed all the way to harvest, except for what I'm not going to keep for a mother. If it's something special I may re-vegg

The soon to be systems..see link

Yes it is part drip circulating. So you're saying the flushing plants are dumping nutes back into the res that could act as a reserve for other plants to use ? Well, I don't think slight deficiencies make all that difference, unless growing for a photo shoot, but even then I've done it though the whole cycle, and still came out w good results surprisingly

Well it's a single 25 gall res. My question has to do w smaller systems, such as buckets smaller but individual res's, hence the broken up stages but in a single contained res at a starting and finishing stage I'm questioning the gap in nutes supplied, but the plants recirculating the nutes back is a point to consider

Well the idea is to do a perpetual in a single system rather than needing a 2 stage flowering set up. IT could be done, but the work space will be very tight. Of course what came to mind is that gap between pre-flowering and the finishing 2 weeks flush so my idea to foliar the gap since it's the pre flowering for the first 2 weeks, but I'm not disregarding the root zone at the same time too. My purpose is to cut the interval down if possible. Yes I could vegg until the full harvest comes down and just make the new batch of nutes, however I want shorter cycles to keep the supply building. I see I'm at least 2-3 grams per day and that math is cutting close for a full 30 + 60- 70 day cycle, and I've done that route and ran out half way into the next crop, so not going there again and I've had it w the DC hustle getting real pricey and sometimes poorly grown, which is a real pisser and feel like I'm throwing money away there, so getting a supply without needing to buy on the side is my priority. It could be bumper w the light coverage I have, but I won't know until I'm in the flowering stages and seeing how the structure forms and fills out, density, calyx to leaf ratio etc In that case, I won't feel like I need to keep it building, but something like under 8 dry ozs tells me I'm cutting it close and need shorter harvest intervals, and I KNOW how deceptive buds filled w air and water lose 3/4 of that weight, and much lighter after dried. LOL add more time for drying too, that's another oz needed...see where I'm going w this now ?

 

[LostTribe]

I didn't think you meant perpetual. In one of those systems you are limited. Most would add a single bucket or some DIY along side to put your finishing plants in. I thought you were going to throw cuts in with finishing plants to jump start them.

 

[Random user 8282737373]

I didn't think you meant perpetual. In one of those systems you are limited. Most would add a single bucket or some DIY along side to put your finishing plants in. I thought you were going to throw cuts in with finishing plants to jump start them.

Yup, and that’s what I thought but I’m trying innovate a possible way around that. The system is so popular I would have to wait until 11/01. I decided to get 4 DWC buckets for now. Maybe I’ll incorporate them as part of the stages w Superponics, or get get another 4 buckets and rotate that way. I don’t think I’m waiting any longer past the 1st. At that point it’s more practical sticking w the rotation of buckets to be perpetual than one large high tech system that all plants share and as you said limited by the stage of nutrients that some plants wouldn’t be at. That’s why I have the thread about one larger system versus smaller systems, and I’m leaning mixed or 8 bucket rotation at this point. It seems it will be difficult in 2 large system, even though state of the art and massive yielding (watch link to understand what I mean) it might be better to have the buckets for the last remaining weeks and new clones get the super charged treatment where it counts the most. The cabinet is HALF the size of my footprint so I’m thinking double that yield. Nevertheless you have to admit, this is impressive results in a small cabinet..that’s why my interest is piqued