Most effective setup for low plant count

[tokersmoke]

Bird not being offensive just handing out good advice.Regardless we are talking theoretically.Lets see some pics of grows.

You said 600w cant yield.This statement alone shows your inexperience.I dont have 10k in lighting but my setup pulls a quarter pound every two weeks.I only run 600w lights.1k lights are not as efficient as 600w lights hands down.

I have been growing inside for 5 years and have yet to see a 2 PLUS pound plant indoors.You said 2lbs a light with 8 plants max thats 2.5 POUNDS a plant good luck with that.Not all strains are gonna give up two pounds per plant.If you are asking questions you dont know how. Im gonna wander over to a more realistic conversation.Because we are talking fantasies right now.Lets see this 10k in lighting with a room to support it.

I never meant to be negative.You asked for advice and got it.You said anyone can grow a ten pound indoor plant?Show me such thread.Sure a two plus pounder is possible but not optimal or productive.Regardless if you are in the states its still illegal to grow federally.So screw the plant numbers and go bigger.

 

[Jhhnn]

more smaller plants will always out yield large plants. You will get more harvest done per year then with large plants. Mathematics doesn't lie. The only way I know is a SOG. If you take the time to veg large plants you could have already had a harvest done by the time the first large plants are ready to flower. Take all your 6" cuts and flower them. You should have no problem getting an oz from ea plant..

I grew vertical for many years. I always got bigger plants under vertical lighting then I did with hoods IME...I have since upgraded to E-PAPILLON and Gavita total watts 3k..

Probably true, but not on point, which is to maximize yield from a Colorado legal 6 flowering plants per couple grow.

Having a legal grow is simply worth the effort of adapting to plant count limitations, particularly for small time growers who occasionally sell a bit here & there. In the past, if the cops wrangled a warrant, growers were sitting ducks for a bust regardless of plant count. In Colorado today, State authorities have to find a different way to bust anybody whose plant count is legal.

That difference is profound, if we think about it at all. Whatever else a grower might be doing, having legal plant counts is a smart move.

For strictly personal growers, plant count limitations are a very light burden to bear. Even as newbs with other gardening experience, we have no trouble maintaining our supply harvest to harvest, even while gifting a fair % to friends. That's while taking a relatively low tech low effort let 'em do their thing approach in good potting soil. Growing short flowering hybrid fems from seed, vegging one 6 plant batch while flowering another, a couple can readily harvest 12-18 oz of dried bud every 2 months. It's more than we'd personally care to smoke, and the bottom line is much better than buying from any source. That's true even with relatively poor grams/watt numbers.

 

[SirStynkalot]

Well, seems I was proven wrong. I figured you were hopping into this with no idea of the work involved. That was my gripe about watering - I had an easier time when I was starting mixing and watering in smaller batches of nutes. You waste a lot less when you screw up and it's less time consuming - makes it a profession rather than a hobby if you have to hand water a couple bedrooms. Seems like you realize that. My apologies.

Low count high weight's doable but not easy. If you don't believe us, feel free to try it out. Were I under your restrictions I'd throw up 8 individual DWC buckets and an RDWC for veg. 4x 600w mh bulbs for veg horizontally oriented (I still have an easier time with training when they veg horizontally) and 10k flowering. Gonna want to build in as much light as you can use IME because indoor tree grows are a pain in the ass to manage and you probably won't hit your goals until you get dialed in. It's a low return growing method.

I wouldn't know how to set up the flower room. My lb+ plants were grown with horizontal lighting in cool tubes - 1k per plant scrogged to individual 4x4 trellis squares. Absolutely hated it but still did it for a year or so just to make sure I had learned what I could. Lots of people on here experiment with massive trees surrounded by lights but I think those are usually the ones who struggle more. IMO vert only "shines" when you're surrounding lights with plants to suck out every lumen. Otherwise horizontal's easier to manage and probably will do better for most because of that.

I'd debate the 10 lb plant indoor comment too. I've seen a LOT of attempts. Only heard RUMORS of success.

And FYI I live in northern Washington. I don't grow outdoors. You show me a grower this far north that can put out the quality the market around here expects and I'll eat my shoes. Every local dispensary that tried to throw up a patch outdoors last year still hasn't finished moving their shitty cooking trim and it's time to be sowing this year's patch. I'm about a consistent high quality product and I get that better out of indoor vert with QP or less plants. To each his own.

 

[Jhhnn]

Bird not being offensive just handing out good advice.Regardless we are talking theoretically.Lets see some pics of grows.

You said 600w cant yield.This statement alone shows your inexperience.I dont have 10k in lighting but my setup pulls a quarter pound every two weeks.I only run 600w lights.1k lights are not as efficient as 600w lights hands down.

I have been growing inside for 5 years and have yet to see a 2 PLUS pound plant indoors.You said 2lbs a light with 8 plants max thats 2.5 POUNDS a plant good luck with that.Not all strains are gonna give up two pounds per plant.If you are asking questions you dont know how. Im gonna wander over to a more realistic conversation.Because we are talking fantasies right now.Lets see this 10k in lighting with a room to support it.

I never meant to be negative.You asked for advice and got it.You said anyone can grow a ten pound indoor plant?Show me such thread.Sure a two plus pounder is possible but not optimal or productive.Regardless if you are in the states its still illegal to grow federally.So screw the plant numbers and go bigger.

That last sentence is *not* good advice for Colorado growers. To my knowledge, the feds have not busted anybody in strict compliance with Colorado law since A64 went into effect. Which means that personal growers not shown to have engaged in commerce or interstate transport are not targets. They did bust this guy for the transparent ploy of taking "donations"-

http://politix.topix.com/story/5053-colorado-pot-grower-busted-for-selling-stash-on-craigslist

I mean, uhh, Hello.... that's practically begging for it. Sheesh.

 

[Ttystikk]

That's what I don't understand either. Is there a place where it's cool to have 16lbs in possession as long as you only have 6 plants in flower?

YES. In Colorado, one may possess a 'personal collection' of unlimited size, as long as it's kept secure on their own personal private property.

(Pause to pat the ground I tread) This is what legalization does and should look like. If it were any other way, it would merely be an excuse for tyranny, wouldn't it? Methinks they have enough of those already.

 

[Ttystikk]

Only reason I'm thinking about going vertical is because I want to ditch the hoods and to keep the heat down. I also want to see if I can harvest more going vertical than what I can doing horizontal given the same amount of time, lighting, and plants. From reading alone it seems like a horizontal grow is going to beat a vertical grow if the plant numbers are low with a lot of lighting.

I've been doing what you're thinking about. Vertical, RDWC trees. Small stem counts, large yield per plant. I'm still working the bugs out of the environment and the process, but early results are extremely encouraging.


It's not for a noob, but if you're a competent grower there is nothing about it that's tough to grasp. The simple truth is that the extra yield potential is stunningly obvious, and I haven't yet realized it only due to other issues not directly related to vertical trellising.

I'm currently testing a second generation vertical unit that's showing potential.

Based on what I've done so far- good and bad- I'd say that vertical is potentially far more efficient in terms of space, size, yield, watts and labor. It is also unforgiving if its tenets aren't strictly obeyed. For example, ignore watts per square foot math; the real deciding factor is distance between bulb and trellis. A little too far is as much of a sin as too close, and it's a delicate balance.

The heat is another balance issue; efficient use of light from bare bulbs means fewer bulbs are merged per unit of yield, thus less heat produced. I find that bare bulbs are again far superior than hot boxes one hides bulbs in, lol.

Have a look at the thread in my signature line, it's a journal of my solution to the same problem.

 

[Birdmayne]

Tokersmoke - Are you serious? What don't you get about what my goals are? I'm trying to pull weight not a qp every 2 weeks. Where did you see my say that 600s can't yield? I did not. You must be high. I've done both but 600s are not my style. I am not going to choose 16 600 watters over 10 1k lights. If you haven't seen a 2 lb plant indoors then maybe you should switch to the big boys. Have you done a comparison between both? You sound like you might not have even owned a 1000 watt light. A few of the people I know who started off using 600s (because thats what they said on the internet) changed to 1000s. Any plant can yield 2+ lb indoors no matter what strain it is. You are giving out bad information again young grasshopper. A 10 lb plant? I have seen 4+ lb plants outdoors but never 10 indoors. I don't need to see pictures to know that its possible though. All you need is a long veg time and in your case a lot of 600 watt lights. I can tell some people gain experience on the internet off of pictures. I grew up in this game we didn't have internet back then. Thats when most people killed their indoor plants by simply over watering. I used to play hide and seek in the fields when I was a kid with plants you can hide under. I was helping trim when I was 8 my fingers are so wrinkled it looks like a 70 year olds hands. Everybody local here grows, literally almost everyone here grows. You can smell it on the freeway. Local police knows but don't care as long as its not out there in public view. I do not do pictures nor do I have anything to prove to you. To me you are a troll who is telling me I have no experience growing because you read something wrong about me not wanting to use 600 watters. You're a joke. I am not here asking how to grow. I wanted opinions from people who have been growing vertically what set up is effective for low plant count yield. Not "set up" as in growing method, but as in style of vertical growing, plant/light arrangements, if they are doing scrog or any kind of training ect. I don't think I can learn anything from you. Please stop trolling.

 

[Birdmayne]

Ttystikk - If you had 6 plants to flower at a time using maybe 8k-12k lights, would you grow horizontal or vertical? Which is going to get the better gram per watt?

 

[tokersmoke]

LOL i didnt see any pics of any grows!!Show me that any strain can be a 2 PLUS pound plant.Ill stop trolling when you stop wasting peoples time with hypothetical situations.Check out my pics i dont have 10k in lighting and im not claiming to pull numbers that no one else is.If i could pull 2 lbs a light i wouldn't be wasting time talking to you.Show a journal with 2 PLUS pounds a light..

If you post a question on the internet you will get thousands of different answers.Dont get your panties in a bunch cause i gave my opinion, Post some pics and shut me up.

 

[tokersmoke]

Just sitting here contemplating what been said.6 plants under 10k 2 pounds a light.So more like 3.3 pounds a plant.600w put out 92k lumens a 1000w puts out 140k lumens.Right here we see the efficiency of the 600w is far superior.OKay optimal distance for a 1000w is at least 10-12 inches.Optimal distance for a 6 is 8 inches.The 600w puts off more light hands down lumen to watt wth the added distance.So yes multiple smaller lights would yield better hell 4 250 lights would yield better then 1 1000w

Others found my posts helpful.Its amazing you didnt.But i got to remember we are all talking hypothetical and you dont have ten 1k lights or 6 plants let alone the space and ac to handle 10k of lighting.Lets see some pics of 2 and 3 pound indoor trees.Outdoor we are talking a different ball game 10kilos is possible.But not with every strain.

To say every strain has the potential to be a two plus pound INDOOR plant is ludicrous.

 

[Birdmayne]

Ok, you sound like a kid. Why are you twisting my statements and putting words in my mouth? You're never gonna win this debate you make no sense. First I never said 600s can't yield. I said I will not downgrade to 600s. Only people I know of using 600s are small grows like yours. Stick to your little baby sh!t if you want kid. Don't tell me you can do this and that with your 600s. Your 600 watter is never gonna penetrate as much as a 1k and your under growth is never gonna be as solid as a 1k. Done deal. You like more fluff go ahead but don't keep telling to use 600s because its what you learned from reading. You don't even have a 1k light. When you save enough money to buy a 1k you'll ditch the 600s. Why don't you just upgrade to 4 150 watt lights if smaller lights would yield better? You're so smart. A 1k watt complete set up runs about $250 save your lunch money kid. I also never said I can grow a 2 lb plant off one light even though it can be done. I was saying a 2 lb plant period. Get yourself straight boy stop twisting peoples words. How do you feel your post is helpful because your advice has nothing to do with my plans? I'm asking about being efficient with a 10k watt grow not a 2 600 watter grow. Do you understand now? If I already had my grow set up I wouldn't be here asking about going vertical smart kid. I never asked you to waste your time here, you are actually wasting mine. Stop trolling.

 

[Birdmayne]

You are giving out false information again. I have to put this out here, I don't want the next kid to be misinformed. All the information you are stating sounds like you read them online. Can you name of a strain that tops out at a certain weight? Anyone can grow a 2 lb plant indoors if you have enough veg time, space, right set up and 600 watters. Doesn't take a rocket scientist. You're a joke.

To say every strain has the potential to be a two plus pound INDOOR plant is ludicrous.

 

[Birdmayne]

Wouldn't that be some sh!t. A smart guy doing an efficient warehouse grow with 100 250 watt lights since 4 250s can out yield a 1k.

 

[tokersmoke]

One guy popped on here that got almost two pounds.With enough veg time anything is possible.Again i didnt say impossible.Efficient hell no.Anywho i have pics on my profile check them out im cranking out some sweet smoke!!!Lets see some of yours.

 

[med-man]

med-man tables (troughs) by far

a combo of top feed and nutrient film has super fast veg and massive output. depending on spacing and lighting and co2 you could easily get 16 pounds

med-man

 

[BlueBerryBaby]

Vert is your best option. But you most likely wont get 16 lbs with just 8 plants. Good luck .

 

[FlowerFarmer]

PPK by delta9nxs
Sealed vertical bare bulb and 2lbs per light should be no problem.


For a few cycles I've been running 7 trees in a checkerboard formation with 8 lamps and yields have been killer despite various problems and old ass bulbs.. ~around 1.7 - 1.8 lb/plant with 6400w (4 600w in the corners & 4 1000w center diamond). Just shy of 2lb/light.

No doubt next run with proper media for the PPK (turface or floor dry) I should surpass that. I nearly hit 2lbs per light/plant and struggled trying to make coco work in the PPK system, but using turface/or napa and some further dialings of my genetics there is no reason 2lbs/light isn't a piece of cake. Curious to see what 1ks in the corners would do or if it'd hurt efficiency.


Seriously... PPK for the win! Fast top feed pulse combined with a passive wick capability to remove the perched water table while providing redundancy. Hands down the best way to run trees with reliable hydro results.


Not to say you can't do it in a proper RDWC grow either..