Monsanto's Really needs to be STOPPED HELP

[grapeman]

You children crack me up. The "cool kids" who keep posting about this "problem" have yet to put up solid science to back up the thread.

Yet you all expect me to post science disproving the thread.

And that's the level of intelligence I am dealing with.

And now we are getting the hippies posting about buying locally, organic meat farmers only buying organic alfalfa etc etc etc.

But where is the fucking science to back up the thread? Every time someone posts up a study, it is either incomplete, from a laughable source or concludes with "more research needs to occur on the subject".

But don't let any of this stop you geniuses. Keep looking to me to post science on proving a negative. And for your part, don't post anything to prove your point and keep demonizing me for pointing out that your fears are short on science.

 

[dagnabit]

i learn everyday.
what new data have you acquired as a result of the interaction?
like i stated previously im all for us bitching/moaning/boycotting GMO stuffs. it's when we start making laws that effect real poor people that i get scared.
i acknowledge the benefits of GMO and the drawbacks without bringing up hitler(pure hyperbole). I sure don't claim to be an expert or to know the absolute truth one way or the other,but my bullshit detector is blowing the fuck up from both sides.

but my position has not changed...

we have no place telling people starving to death in 3rd world countries what they can and can not plant. as long as it remains well fed spoiled rotten folks who have all the options they can stand bitching about their options,i dont give a shit really. no dog in the fight...

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

Sigh....

I only wish it was about cool.

Good to see you still hanging around dag.

Did you learn anything or are you in a holding pattern with grapeman?

agreed. if he thinks its about cool he is crazy. being broke ain't cool...

 

[mean mr.mustard]

You children crack me up. The "cool kids" who keep posting about this "problem" have yet to put up solid science to back up the thread.

Well I may not be cool but I posted up more than you did.

Yet you all expect me to post science disproving the thread.

That would be terrific! Denouncing all the points in favor of the argument has gotten in your way of proving your points against it.

And that's the level of intelligence I am dealing with.

"I feel your pain."

And now we are getting the hippies posting about buying locally, organic meat farmers only buying organic alfalfa etc etc etc.

Yikes!! Wait... what's wrong with that again?

But where is the fucking science to back up the thread? Every time someone posts up a study, it is either incomplete, from a laughable source or concludes with "more research needs to occur on the subject".

I think it's just you who is claiming nothing posted is science.

How can you continue research when you're denied access to your subject after you publish early research?

But don't let any of this stop you geniuses. Keep looking to me to post science on proving a negative. And for your part, don't post anything to prove your point and keep demonizing me for pointing out that your fears are short on science.

It's like looking in a mirror... isn't it?

At least you've been provided material to disregard... that's a damn sight better than the insults and drivel you post.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

i learn everyday.
what new data have you acquired as a result of the interaction?
like i stated previously im all for us bitching/moaning/boycotting GMO stuffs. it's when we start making laws that effect real poor people that i get scared.
i acknowledge the benefits of GMO and the drawbacks without bringing up hitler(pure hyperbole). I sure don't claim to be an expert or to know the absolute truth one way or the other,but my bullshit detector is blowing the fuck up from both sides.

but my position has not changed...

we have no place telling people starving to death in 3rd world countries what they can and can not plant. as long as it remains well fed spoiled rotten folks who have all the options they can stand bitching about their options,i dont give a shit really. no dog in the fight...

The interesting thing to me is that I don't claim to be an expert either.

In time the available genome of whatever species it is you would like to plant will be the ultimatum you seem to be referring to.

We have options now... which is why I am urging people not to put their faith in the least tested sector of agriculture.

Nothing is wrong with breeding a better plant without the genes of some other species being involved.

I've learned that people, try as you might, will not open their eyes if they choose not to.

I've also learned that potheads are much more derisive than a decade ago.

 

[FreeThePlant]

To the dude bitching about "science"...

http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/AboutGeneticallyModifiedFoods/index.cfm

http://www.seedsofdeception.com/GMFree/GMODangers/FAQs/index.cfm

http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/GeneticRoulette/HealthRisksofGMFoodsSummaryDebate/index.cfm

This section summarizes the health risks of genetically modified foods and serves as a forum for a global discussion and debate. It is organized around the 65 main point summaries presented on the left side of the two-page spreads in Part 1 of Genetic Roulette. Each section linked below offers the opportunity for people to submit updates, corrections, challenges and responses. Before making a submittal, please review the full content in that section of the book.

read above links

The biotech industry claims that the FDA has thoroughly evaluated GM foods and found them safe. This is untrue. Internal FDA documents made public from a lawsuit, reveal that agency scientists warned that GM foods might create toxins, allergies, nutritional problems, and new diseases that might be difficult to identify.131-140 Although they urged their superiors to require long-term tests on each GM variety prior to approval, the political appointees at the agency, including a former attorney for Monsanto, ignored the scientists. Official policy claims that the foods are no different130 and do NOT require safety testing. A manufacturer can introduce a GM food without even informing the government or consumers.146 A January 2001 report from an expert panel of the Royal Society of Canada said it was "scientifically unjustifiable"136 to presume that GM foods are safe. Likewise, a 2002 report by the UK's Royal Society said that genetic modification "could lead to unpredicted harmful changes in the nutritional state of foods," and recommended that potential health effects of GM foods be rigorously researched before being fed to pregnant or breast-feeding women, elderly people, those suffering from chronic disease, and babies.

that was what google has found within 15 seconds...do your own research.

secondly, CRITICIZING someone for growing their own and/or supporting local co-ops is completely ridiculous and asinine. how dare you tell me what i can and can't do or what anyone can and can't do for that matter? you ignore the facts, then call people "hippies" and "kids"....what a crock of shit, idiots like these stupid mother fuckers needs buttfucked then shot in the face.

 

[hunt4genetics]

Keep planting heirloom, opening pollinated seeds.
Save seeds, and share seeds.

 

[mean mr.mustard]

that was what google has found within 15 seconds...do your own research.

It's like talking to a brick wall.

A brick wall that won't listen.

The brick wall talks though, if circles count.

This thread has driven me to drink.

I bid you all good evening.

 

[Suspect]

Imo the problem with corporates so deep penetrated in governments, that by farming/consuming their products, you're basically giving your vote for their activity which is by no means striving to maximize YOUR well being. Give them your little finger and next they take more of your liberties and freedoms to do whatever.

Do you fully trust your governments? I don't, they lie and manipulate on so many levels only to keep this shopping carousel running.
Recently I have learned alot about what all they leave in the dark as for knowledge, about you & me & our ancestors and what they knew. AND I AM SURELY NOT VOTING FOR THEM WITH MY WALLET!

 

[Thomkal Vwalaa]

This thread has driven me to drink.

I bid you all good evening.

You love good brew, don't pretend.

Good evening to you, thanks for keeping the level head as usual.

 

[mosstrooper]

Keep planting heirloom, opening pollinated seeds.
Save seeds, and share seeds.

Seconded, i get all my heritage varieties from ebay, they have all be very affordable and very good quality so far, excellent germination rates, far greater variety, far superior tasting produce than corporate/farmer seeds whos main criteria is that whatever they grow, it wont get bruised on the way to the shop, so you get tomatoes that are as solid as a steroid pumped body builder but just as bland and tasteless.

I also recommend breeding your own seeds, everyone should do this, its the first step to undoing the harm that the corporates have done to our national germ-plasm stock. Though large supermarket chains have played a big role in this too.

In Europe it seems, we are far further down the road of loss of our rights to grow and sell freely. Despite my love of Europe and Europeans i wish the UK had never joined the EEC/EU. Upon joining the European Union in the 1970s, the UK was required to create a National Seed List. Selling any type of seed not featured on the list was - and is - a criminal offence. Not a civil offence where you might be fined, but you wouldn't become a recorded criminal, no, if you where to be prosecuted you would be recorded as being such.

Needless to say, this doesn't happen often, as the authorities dont want to draw too much attention to such oppressive and dubious law.

So, yes, keep on growing heritage stock, the sooner we stop buying so much corporate seed and produce the sooner they will be forced to take us seriously, it wouldnt even need everyone, if even 20% of people made an effort it would scare the corporates witless and they would start to change their behaviour. This might seem a little naive, or optimistic, but they need our pounds/euros/dollars and when profits drop by any % they sit up and take notice, their greedy shareholders would force them to.

 

[grapeman]

For all you scared children who huddle in the corner of your kitchens each night fretting about how GM is ruining the planet, I thought I'd post up some science for you.

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetc...icleURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0016989

See? There are real scientists working on "risk assessment". We don't need to rely on teenagers for faux knowledge.

Now you kids can see for yourself what "real" science looks like in the GM world. No longer do you need to read off-beat websites and pretend they contain science since you can now compare your information sources to a real scientific publication. Now you know what to look for in your proponent postings of banning GM worldwide. Now you know what to look for as you all continue to scour the internet to prove your fears that the sky falling as the real serious people who engage in food science are working hard to get food to all in the world.... not just those born in the us or the eu.

Oh - did I interrupt your protests in Madison WI?

 

[mosstrooper]

the real serious people who engage in food science are working hard to get food to all in the world.... not just those born in the us or the eu.

From the London Independent July 25, 1998

Aid agencies have united to condemn one of the biggest genetic engineering
companies for using the Third World to justify its products.

The company, Monsanto, has been seeking support from leading figures in
Africa and Asia for its claims that biotechnology can "feed the world".

An advertising campaign expected to start later this year says, "Let the
harvest begin". But furious aid agencies have criticised the promotion as
"misleading and manipulative". And African delegates to the United
Nations' recent session on plant genetic resources asked for support in
fighting the biotechnology companies.

I can find hundreds more articles like this, so, not only is the "Monsanto are great because they are going to feed the world, and if you dont like Monsanto then your promoting starvation" arguement a rather old one now, but it also pisses of aid agencys NGO's African leaders and seemingly anyone else whos at the sharp end of famine.

Sorry, before you ask, no i didnt read the article you posted, it would be better from my point of view if you had selectivly quoted the meat and two veg of the article so i could look into the main points, but no, ill not waste my time reading pro Monsanto propaganda, not if as i imagine, it is many pages long.

Im sure its all just a big, red, herring shaped waste of time.

 

[Paco]

As I said before, Those who claim that GMO's are of no harm must provide a sound argument. Saying that "real" science does not back their claims against GMOs, without providing your own "real" science makes you look well, dumb...
So with out making yourself look more foolish, please provide evidence to back you claim, without calling people names.
resident "cool kid"

You children crack me up. The "cool kids" who keep posting about this "problem" have yet to put up solid science to back up the thread.

Yet you all expect me to post science disproving the thread.

And that's the level of intelligence I am dealing with.

And now we are getting the hippies posting about buying locally, organic meat farmers only buying organic alfalfa etc etc etc.

But where is the fucking science to back up the thread? Every time someone posts up a study, it is either incomplete, from a laughable source or concludes with "more research needs to occur on the subject".

But don't let any of this stop you geniuses. Keep looking to me to post science on proving a negative. And for your part, don't post anything to prove your point and keep demonizing me for pointing out that your fears are short on science.

 

[mosstrooper]

I agree with the anti argument with regard to the scientific side of this debate, not because they have better science, or better scientists, but because, GMO's are such a new and unusual form of biotech, that i personally think it is incumbent on Monsanto, or whoever wants to introduce them to prove to the rest of us that they are indeed safe.

Asking people to browse off and read long scientific papers isnt really going to convince anyone, nobody has that amount of time, and few have the scientific skills, but if you seriously wanted to convince me thta GMOs are really safe in the long run, you will have your work cut out.

Its not just that i distrust such strange creations, i distrust Monsanto, and i distrust them because of their record in terms of Agent Orange!, illegal dumping of chemicals, not just in the developing world, but in The UK where i live too, in huge quantity's. If i wasn't just playing at it as i am here, id be happy to find a mountain of non scientific argument but still facts to support my argument that Monsanto are grossly negligent and utterly irresponsible, so why would i trust them to have mine, or anyone other than their shareholders interests at heart?

 

[mean mr.mustard]

For all you scared children who huddle in the corner of your kitchens each night fretting about how GM is ruining the planet, I thought I'd post up some science for you.

http://www.plosone.org/article/fetc...icleURI=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0016989

See? There are real scientists working on "risk assessment". We don't need to rely on teenagers for faux knowledge.

Now you kids can see for yourself what "real" science looks like in the GM world. No longer do you need to read off-beat websites and pretend they contain science since you can now compare your information sources to a real scientific publication. Now you know what to look for in your proponent postings of banning GM worldwide. Now you know what to look for as you all continue to scour the internet to prove your fears that the sky falling as the real serious people who engage in food science are working hard to get food to all in the world.... not just those born in the us or the eu.

Oh - did I interrupt your protests in Madison WI?

Ooooh real science!

I'm going to delve into the depths of the article in just a few days.

This teenager has to go to antiunion bill protests... or at least back to the corner of my kitchen.

It's really hard work to try to stop the world from spinning... but if we hold enough drum circles we'll change the future.

Thank you for posting "something" besides your derisive bullshit.

Your conversational merits are vast and various.

 

[DocLeaf]

Save the seeds ,, of EVERYTHING.. !!!! Cant stress this enough. Organic,,, salad seed crops are useful since they can be sown at most times of year... and most root crops grow strong,, look also towards crops that hold medicinal qualities esp. the herbs.

 

[mosstrooper]

This is a fantastic resource for edible and useful plants, it is UK oriented, but is truly useful for anyone in a temperate climate, as well as further afield Plants for a future database. I love these guys so much i actually bought the database too(im not exactly famed for spending my money).

 

[motaco]

we have no place telling people starving to death in 3rd world countries what they can and can not plant. as long as it remains well fed spoiled rotten folks who have all the options they can stand bitching about their options,i dont give a shit really. no dog in the fight...

QFT. If you don't like buying monsanto crap then don't buy it.

But if you are watching your kids starve to death because your crops failed you can see if you really think a genetically modified disease resistant crop seem like seeds from hell.

 

[grapeman]

To the dude bitching about "science"...

http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/AboutGeneticallyModifiedFoods/index.cfm

http://www.seedsofdeception.com/GMFree/GMODangers/FAQs/index.cfm

http://www.seedsofdeception.com/Public/GeneticRoulette/HealthRisksofGMFoodsSummaryDebate/index.cfm



read above links



that was what google has found within 15 seconds...do your own research.

secondly, CRITICIZING someone for growing their own and/or supporting local co-ops is completely ridiculous and asinine. how dare you tell me what i can and can't do or what anyone can and can't do for that matter? you ignore the facts, then call people "hippies" and "kids"....what a crock of shit, idiots like these stupid mother fuckers needs buttfucked then shot in the face.

I see you take your religion seriously, but are sadly mis-informed. I could care less about you, what you eat, where you shop or how you spend your money. But sadly you are as stupid as the rest here as you think I am supposed to post published papers proving GM seed is either neutral or harmfull. The requirement is on proponents (such as yourself) to post science proving their theory (GM and Monsanto is bad... very bad).

And you too have failed. Of the 3 links you provided, the first 2 are merely regurgitations of news stories and hardly science.

The last link showed some promise and one of the papers even claimed a link between mice with bleeding stomachs and GM corn. However only the first page is downloadable so the methods and conclusion is lacking and the source is sadly agenda driven (look then up dumbass, since you have google). "Seeds of Deception" sound like an organization with an agenda to you? LOL.
Agenda driven like the guy who claimed for years that vaccinations caused autism which has now been throughly debunked.

And finally, I have never criticized your co-op, or whatever government food bank you and your family get their food.

I merely pointed out that most of the vendors at farmers markets are not farmers and the produce they claim to be organic is not organic.

If you don't like those facts too fucking bad. But at least you made an effort. It's just too bad you can't tell the difference between facts and bullshit.

But I don't wish to shoot you in the head in any case. I didn't know you took your religion to such an extreme. Like other religious fanatics, except I guess you get 72 cases of organic tomatos (in lieu of virgins) if you die killing farmers for your dumbass cause.