Molasses ~ When & Why ?

[thirst4knwledge]

t4k,

didn't notice that part...my bad...and no don't think you are trying to be an arse,your just pointing out correct info (which is ALWAYS a good thing as so much misinformation is abundant on the internet)...good looking out

Glad to hear it was received well. I know it can be difficult to discern tone in online discussions and I didn't want to come across as condescending. There is so much misinformation on the internet and I'm glad to be in a place where we're all looking for some truth.

FWIW, Robust is NOT blackstrap.

Blackstrap has sugars that are a bit different from the earlier cuts of molasses. They are more usable to the plant.

There is little to no scientific data (not to my limited knowledge) to support the idea that carbs in molasses or any other additive are transformed into sugary resin in buds. Molasses is more used for it's micronutrients, and to feed the micro-life in your soil. The "fattening up" of your buds (or whatever you might call it) that you see when you feed molasses is due to the feeding of probably much needed micronutrients, as well as an increase in the micro-life that feeds your soil. Blackstrap is also much lower in sodium (having none), which to my understanding is always a good thing in later growth stages.

That Plantation organic unsulphered kept dropping the ph of my water when I used it. I was glad I caught it right away, but probably would have had issues...never had that problem with any other brands, though.

Did you use the blackstrap grade of plantation organic unsulphured? Have you used blackstrap grades in the past? I don't really pay attention to ph due to feeding organically, my molasses is used to provide micronutrients feed micro-life. But the plantation organic blackstrap is pretty thick, I imagine it needs some ph adjustment otherwise. It also shouldn't be fed at nearly as high of rates as other non-blackstrap grade molasses'.

-t4k

 

[BlueGrassToker]

There is little to no scientific data (not to my limited knowledge) to support the idea that carbs in molasses or any other additive are transformed into sugary resin in buds. Molasses is more used for it's micronutrients, and to feed the micro-life in your soil. The "fattening up" of your buds (or whatever you might call it) that you see when you feed molasses is due to the feeding of probably much needed micronutrients, as well as an increase in the micro-life that feeds your soil. Blackstrap is also much lower in sodium (having none), which to my understanding is always a good thing in later growth stages.

I didn't say or elude that molasses transfers into "sugary resin". Perhaps you are reading that in for yourself?
Now, as far as scientific data, I think you will find that blackstrap makes for a great foliar feed. The benefits are from nutrients, and usable carbohydrates.
Expanding our knowledge base is always a good thing.

 

[thirst4knwledge]

I didn't say or elude that molasses transfers into "sugary resin". Perhaps you are reading that in for yourself?
Now, as far as scientific data, I think you will find that blackstrap makes for a great foliar feed. The benefits are from nutrients, and usable carbohydrates.
Expanding our knowledge base is always a good thing.

You think I will find? Well that's a relief. You will see my disclaimer in saying that my knowledge is limited. I've only been researching the uses of molasses relatively recently and I know there is much info that I have yet to come across. You will also find that one of the main uses of blackstrap as a foliar feed (besides quick fix for micronutrient deficiencies) is as a pest deterrent. Add that to your knowledge base. Just hope you aren't spraying very late into flower. Personally would not consider spraying it on my plant. Maybe I did read in to it too much, I was trying to get something from that very informative post "they are more usable to the plant"

-t4k

 

[BlueGrassToker]

Why do you critique others with such a limited knowledge of the topic?

 

[kcoc]

Will Aunt Patty's Blackstrap Molasses work?





So far I've only found Plantation (organic) Blackstrap..

 

[SeaMaiden]

Any molasses will work, and even better, damn near any and every sugar I've used works fantastically.

Malted barley extract, panela/panocha, date and palm sugars all work beautifully.

 

[h^2 O]

i don't think a tsp or tbsp of mollasses would hurt in a gallon or more of water. Not like you're pouring pure orange juice into the soil or anything.

 

[dramamine]

Any molasses will work, and even better, damn near any and every sugar I've used works fantastically.

Malted barley extract, panela/panocha, date and palm sugars all work beautifully.

I guess it depends on what work you want it to do. As I said above, the plantation unsulphered molasses (didn't try their blackstrap) behaved much differently in solution than others I've tried. It had more sodium, registering much higher EC than other molasses, and caused ph to fluctuate.

 

[thirst4knwledge]

Why do you critique others with such a limited knowledge of the topic?

No critiquing here...just trying to share what I've learned so far. And one of the things I've learned is that the sugars in blackstrap are to feed your micro-life, not your plant. My first response was purely informative, was not trying to come across as anything else. I'm sorry you took it as otherwise and responded with "perhaps you are reading that in for yourself?" (translation required). I say that my knowledge is limited because I recognize that there are many things I don't know...that being said there are some things that I do know. This includes all aspects of growing. Always finding answers and still looking for more. Just learning and sharing at the same time, not critiquing.

-t4k

 

[thirst4knwledge]

Will Aunt Patty's Blackstrap Molasses work?

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So far I've only found Plantation (organic) Blackstrap..

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In my opinion, the plantation would be better. Specifically, the organic one. It has more Potassium, Iron, Vitamin B6, as well as having less sodium. The sodium content will make your ph fluctuate, and the plantation organic blackstrap has no sodium just micronutes and refined sugar.

Any molasses will work, and even better, damn near any and every sugar I've used works fantastically.

Malted barley extract, panela/panocha, date and palm sugars all work beautifully.

Sounds cool. Wish I had experimented with different things in the past. Those probably worked due to sugars being fed to micro-life making more nutes available to the roots. Translates to a somewhat temporary boost in growth? In my experience, blackstrap has the advantage of providing some micronutrients, and also some brands have no sodium (which to my understanding could possibly cause ph fluctuation and lockout). Maybe worth a try for you. I like the idea of using malted barley extract. Maybe I'll try premixing in soil and feeding molasses at flower.

-t4k

 

[thirst4knwledge]

I guess it depends on what work you want it to do. As I said above, the plantation unsulphered molasses (didn't try their blackstrap) behaved much differently in solution than others I've tried. It had more sodium, registering much higher EC than other molasses, and caused ph to fluctuate.

Try the plantation organic blackstrap sometime...no sodium and tons of extras (even their non-organic blackstrap grade has sodium)

 

[SeaMaiden]

I guess it depends on what work you want it to do. As I said above, the plantation unsulphered molasses (didn't try their blackstrap) behaved much differently in solution than others I've tried. It had more sodium, registering much higher EC than other molasses, and caused ph to fluctuate.

You cannot accurately measure EC of organic molecules. All organic molecules are going to present a problem. Measuring pH isn't a problem, but once you enter into the realm of EC you're going to run into difficulties trying to decipher the wildly vacillating readings.

In trying to find a method to better quantify the organic liquids that I feed my plants, I asked around some knowledgeable folks (chemistry prof, physics prof, oceanographers and marine bio acquaintances) to see if there was a device or method that's as accurate as EC is for chemical salts for measuring stuff like, say, my alfalfa teas, worm casting teas, saturation levels of seaweed and kelp, all that stuff. The answer I got was this: yes, it can be done, but first you need to know exactly what molecule you want to measure, and then you have to buy the equipment, and that equipment ain't cheap.

I've tried measuring via just a hygrometer my sugars in solution, but I think a refractometer may be better for that, as what I have on hand (for brewing) just isn't sensitive enough, not to mention that all these things are often calibrated according to a temperature range.

No critiquing here...just trying to share what I've learned so far. And one of the things I've learned is that the sugars in blackstrap are to feed your micro-life, not your plant. My first response was purely informative, was not trying to come across as anything else. I'm sorry you took it as otherwise and responded with "perhaps you are reading that in for yourself?" (translation required). I say that my knowledge is limited because I recognize that there are many things I don't know...that being said there are some things that I do know. This includes all aspects of growing. Always finding answers and still looking for more. Just learning and sharing at the same time, not critiquing.

-t4k

Google Scholar: Plants uptake sugar directly roots.
This all the hits using those search terms on published papers.


Plants can and do uptake (some) sugars directly via their roots. In other words, you are not just feeding microorganisms (mostly bacteria), you are also feeding the plant directly to a degree, assuming the sugars aren't immediately latched onto by microbes.

Sounds cool. Wish I had experimented with different things in the past. Those probably worked due to sugars being fed to micro-life making more nutes available to the roots. Translates to a somewhat temporary boost in growth? In my experience, blackstrap has the advantage of providing some micronutrients, and also some brands have no sodium (which to my understanding could possibly cause ph fluctuation and lockout). Maybe worth a try for you. I like the idea of using malted barley extract. Maybe I'll try premixing in soil and feeding molasses at flower.

-t4k

Ah, no, you see, I've already been using these sugars, for years now. FYI, molasses, blackstrap, unsulfured or otherwise, isn't the only form of sugar to provide other nutrients. While it's difficult to find nutrient profiles for other sugars, it's out there and they do provide some, at different values, etcetera.

Try using some of these other forms of sugar, but mix them into a solution that's similar to molasses so that you don't overdo the sugar application. Anything dry is damn near pure sugar, so needs to be thinned down to... aw man, now I can't remember what percentage of sugar is in blackstrap, but I think it's around 50% total sugars. Malted barley extract, the "liquid" (it can hardly be called liquid, but there it is) is closer to 80%. Thinning down makes it much easier to dispense as well as not overuse.

I wish my grandfather were still alive, I could ask him some more questions about sugar production (he used to run the family's sugar plantation). A cousin only uses it to make rum.

 

[BlueGrassToker]

Plants can and do uptake (some) sugars directly via their roots. In other words, you are not just feeding microorganisms (mostly bacteria), you are also feeding the plant directly to a degree, assuming the sugars aren't immediately latched onto by microbes.

Although the roots have shown to uptake sucrose, I think we will find that simple sucrose will not pass through some cell walls and when introduced at the stomata cannot be effectively used to further produce starch. But in the case of blackstrap molasses, simple sugars have been transformed into more complex sugars that the stomata can uptake and allow production of starch during photosynthesis (as well as ingesting other micro-nutrients). The result is a more vibrant and healthy growth when blackstrap is fed to the foliage.

 

[wantaknow]

if you have a lare rez i would put it in some water and boil it to thin it out ,i killed a whole crop ,when i put non sulfer molassas in the rez that was runnin a chiller ,and coated the roots so thin it up befor addin to the rez ,

 

[SeaMaiden]

Bluegrass, not just sucrose, but also glucose. Also, uptake and utilization is very species-dependent, just as, say, the effectiveness of compost tea is very species-dependent. My goal was only to show that the paradigm that I see posted all too often on canna-forums of "you're not feeding the plant, they can't uptake sugars, you're feeding the microbes" is incorrect and doesn't offer the full spectrum of reality, possibilities.

Play around with different sugars, see what happens. You might be surprised. I know I was.