Mister D's Vertical Redemption

[Mister_D]

No problem tommy, just going to need the guarenteed analysis (NPK & micros if listed) for each of the products you'd like to use (base nutes and boosters). I don't have preference on what booster/base nute you use, whichever you like best. I'll need your regular feeding schedule for veg and flower also (amounts and time given). Get me some details and we'll get this underway. Thanks for doing this test tommy, should be valuable information for all. Oh and i'd like to see your water analysis just for my own comparison . If you want to play with ratios yourself, download the cannastats calulator. It's now called premixppm and can be downloaded here: http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/download.htm.

 

[TommyTwoColas]

Was planning on using Jacks, if that's okay.........here's a link to the two products I have (the 5-12-26 and the calcinit):

http://www.jrpeters.com/Products/Hydroponics/Buy-Hydroponics.html

Was planning on using Big Bud and Overdrive from Advanced as the boosters.........have Bloombastic, Top Booster, Floralicious, etc., but am anxious to see how OD and BB do.

http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-Advanced-Nutrients-Big-Bud-Liquid.asp

http://www.shopping.com/virtual-sun-advanced/zLFUN8TMCkfLoHxESUMhhg==/info?sb=1

Will post my water analysis tomorrow (need to scan it at work........not that I don't trust you guys but I don't want to post my name and zip code online so that's gonna be redacted)

 

[Bonzo]

those pots sound real nice dude! have you built your "POD" yet? i sorta see 2 pods where my stadium is now...1 month apart... flip flopping . lookin' forward to your pod where do you get your water analyzed?

 

[TommyTwoColas]

I got mine done from Brian at Custom Hydro Nutrients (the lab is actually in NE), although you could get yours done at JR Peters or any lab like that.

If you're talking to me about "pods", my HP aero stuff is on the shelf for the foreseeable future........although I have been on the lookout for dental air compressors lately from Craigslist

Gonna play in air assisted when I get back into HP.......

 

[Mister_D]

Tommy - You mention mixing a tsp each of the cal-nit and 5-12-26. Is this your recipe for flower only, veg only, or full life? If it's not full life I need you recipes for veg/flower/clone if applicable. How/when do plan to use the big bud and overdrive (per gal app rates, what day(s) is which product given)? Ya go ahead clean that water report up, i'm fine with calling you tommy. Never know we might be neighbors

Bonz - Ya i'm digging the pots, seem pretty quailty. About the water, tommy mentioned a couple labs. You can google for more or contact your county extension agent (google "your county here" extension agent for the number). They should have a water analysis on hand and usually are happy to provide a copy for free. Havn't built the pod yet. Havn't dismantled the shelves yet actually . I'll be building it in the next few weeks though. I'll be sure to snap some pics and post up the dimensions. Basicly it will consist of 8 racks. Each rack will be 2ft wide x 6 ft tall x 1ft deep. 3 shelves on each rack at 2ft, 4ft, and 6ft. Plants will also be on the floor. This gives me 2ft of vertical space and about 1.5ft horizontal (I will train them away from eachother). I think I should be able to squeeze 1.5-2oz per plant once things are dialed in a bit. The goal is to hit 3 oz per, but pretty sure i'll need better yielding genes for that.

 

[aerokrafter]

Glad I bumped into this thread. Sounds like a hella setup you have planned!

Best of Luck!

-AK

 

[Mister_D]

Aerokrafer - Glad you made it over . I'm very impressed with what you do in your aero setup, been slowly working my way through your threads . This setup has been in the planning stages for months, i'm a bit ocd when it comes to room design. Still have some things to get together, but most of what I need is either here or on it's way. First run is going to be a bit of a mess as I will have 5 strains mixed in the racks. Lucky for me bobble has already worked out most of the kinks in the system, and more importantly was good enough to share with the community. I'm just putting my own spin on it to maximize GPW using everything i've learned over the last 15 years. Plus i've got freds, bobble and a few other masters in my corner. Might even have a question for you, never know.

 

[DHF]

Hey Mister D....Never used any bloom boosters but rather toyed with my GH 3 part after end of stretch to drop/minimize the grow and micro , and add more bloom till I got in the neighborhood of 750 ppms across the board....after all.....NPK is NPK....

Some strains can handle more juice but as a rule.......Less is More.....Was given some Koolbloom liquid , and powder and the shit was as different as daylight and dark , so I tossed both after LIGHTLY addin some of both in different rooms and burnin my bitches....but...

With coco the cal/mag plus has calcium nitrate and had to be tapered off as well after stretch was fully done....

Hope things rock fer yas soon Bro....

Peace....DHF..........

 

[Mister_D]

Bonz - I would love to see two pods in your space . I actually have room to fit 6 more pods in the big room attached to this one Just in case I feel the need to seriously expand in the future . Imagine 7 pods spitting out 8-10lbs each every 2 months. Whew i'd need to hire some ummpa loompas to do all that trimming Though there are worse problems a man could have.........

 

[Mister_D]

Sneaking in on me freds. Had the same exact experience with dry koolbloom. As mentioned I always just upped my bloom per your and heathie's instructions. Well one day a grow bro finally convinced me to try the kool bloom, as he thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread arrived. I intially resisted, but eventually gave in. Burned the shit out of my plants..... That was a long time ago and I have since studied nutrient salts quite a bit, as you say NPK is NPK, doesn't matter where you get it from. The reason I asked tommy to compare the boosters to just upping bloom is because I have seen some noticable difference with the addition of humic/fulvic acids (not the laughable amounts in bottled nutes.) and to a lesser degree amino/hormone containing products. I havn't tested much on the aminos/hormones, which aside from pk is what supposedly makes the new age boosters better. I personally don't think they would do anything that justifies the added cost over upping bloom or using a much cheaper straight pk booster. I have been wrong before though, and tommy is willing to do a side by side so why not. I'm always hungry for new information .

 

[TommyTwoColas]

Mister D, gonna run Big Bud at 1ml/L for the next three/four weeks (should've started it on Thursday but will refill rez's tomorrow according to your specs) and leave my base unchanged (run the same ratio as above from clone to harvest, 1/2 tsp of each), and then same application rates with Overdrive (but Overdrive is the last two weeks).

However, don't mind bumping up the Jacks base on the other side, but would prefer bumping down the Jacks base that I'm going to combine with the Big Bud.

I have chelated iron, calcinit, and epsom salts, but that's it for powder nutes at casa de Tommy at the moment.

I didn't get a chance to scan my water report at work today but will make sure to tomorrow.

Alkalinity - 84.00
Calcium - 11.06
Sodium - 33.61
Chloride - 35.95
pH - 7.6

Those are the big details to get you started, full report coming tomorrow (assuming tomorrow ain't like today was, fire drills galore).

 

[DHF]

Bro.....I deal with mostly Organic potsnob`s from Hell at all my numerous lil med sites and they SWEAR by their "Budswell`s" made from kelp/seaweed , and all the boosters the Non-organic guys run , and.......

NPK is NPK....whether it comes from cow/bat/chickenshit with rock phosphate , greensand , and all the other shit yas can add fulvics and such to for their "Chem Nute" free grows , when they don`t realize that all Chem nutes are derived from organic compounds and the plants don`t know the difference ....period..

It`s how they assimilate the nutes through transpiration/respiration/increased humidity till end of stretch so they then suck juice , explode , and increase their productivity till end of cycle with that circadian rythym for optimum swellage....simple....babyshit........

When the sweet spot is found.....

Peace...DHF..........

 

[bobblehead]

The man speaks the truth... Synthetic nutes are chilated so they're ready to be absorbed... Organics need bacteria and fungi to break them down before they're ready for the plant. Simple as that. Elements all look the same on the molecular level.

 

[Mister_D]

Bro.....I deal with mostly Organic potsnob`s from Hell at all my numerous lil med sites and they SWEAR by their "Budswell`s" made from kelp/seaweed , and all the boosters the Non-organic guys run , and.......

NPK is NPK....whether it comes from cow/bat/chickenshit with rock phosphate , greensand , and all the other shit yas can add fulvics and such to for their "Chem Nute" free grows , when they don`t realize that all Chem nutes are derived from organic compounds and the plants don`t know the difference ....period..

It`s how they assimilate the nutes through transpiration/respiration/increased humidity till end of stretch so they then suck juice , explode , and increase their productivity till end of cycle with that circadian rythym for optimum swellage....simple....babyshit........

When the sweet spot is found.....

Peace...DHF..........

Agreed 100%. Ratio and concentration is much more important than source of said elements.

 

[Veg N Out]

Cool grow Mr. D, I've never tried vertical growing...and Don't think I'd change my room with raised beds in to a vertical room, but my dream indoor grow is a 120 light 96 plant grow with plants in 65 gallon containers of my organic soil mix.....Bless.

 

[silver hawaiian]

Okay, now I'm tuned in for both the big vert trees and this bloom booster discussion/experiment.

I've always relied on a top dressing of Indonesian guano every couple weeks ('til week 6), .. For some reason, I've got an aversion to shiny bottles of "BudMaxProMcgillicuttyRocketfuel, but I could be sold..

(Which is not to say I don't come home with shiny bottles every now'n again..)

 

[Mister_D]

Vert definitely requires a different sort of setup than your soil beds, but the productivity potential is unmatched on a per light basis. I love how you have your soil bed room setup, excellent use of reflectors. Still i'd like to see a grower with your skills kill a vert tree setup or better yet go to a pod setup like me, FHC, bobbles, tommy, or a few of the others I can't think of off the top of my head. I helped setup and oversaw a large tree grow not long ago with 120K in lights (100 for bloom and 20 for veg). 140 trees flowered with an end weight of ~ 135 lbs dry. Not bad considering it was a first run at that setup, and we had a little experienced "helper" who thought he knew more than the head grower (30 years experience on a commerial scale) running the place. My role at that spot ended as a result of mr know it all thinking "my" clones needed a heat mat (killed 200 healthy sour D clones, effectivly lossing the strain for me). I snapped and killed about 400 more bashing the trays off his head. Me and the owner are still cool, but I don't work with anyone anymore. Well except my bro that's in the hospitial still, he may as well be my clone though.

 

[Mister_D]

Silver - As mentioned just above NPK is NPK. Doesn't matter if it's from bat shit or monopotassium phosphate. Application is a bit different as the organics need bacteria and fungus to break them down to a plant usable form, but at the end of the day the effect is the same. All about how and when to apply for maxiumum benefit. The real questions for me at this point are : 1. What is the best time(s) to apply a boost of pk 2. What ratio of nutes has the best effect 3. Is there any real benefit to the vitamins, aminos, organic acids, etc these new age boosters are claiming is the magic bullet to better yield. I personally have my doubts about #3, but until I see a good side by side I can't really say for sure one way or the other.

 

[Veg N Out]

1.35lb per light isn't a very good average per light even with the plant numbers - ESPECIALLY because it's over 99 in the scenario you listed....But if I could hit a 2 lb per plant average....That would be miraculous.

 

[Mister_D]

I agree nothing special in the yield department, but considering the way things were setup (moved the whole op, plants and all just prior to flower), and our "helper"'s insistance on not following instructions, we did ok. 2lb's and more per light in that setup is easily achieved if everyone and everything is on point. You are clearly organized and experienced, but running an op that size isn't a one man show. Everyone needs to be following a strict, well developed schedule. Simple mistakes can cost 1000's or even 10's of 1000's. How would you react if someone just killed 3/4 of your outdoor crop (keep in mind that was 200 plants) and lost a cherished strain? No need to answer that, just making a point. Hard to forgive those kinds of mistakes. On the flip side of that if you fucked up and killed 200 of your own clones, you'd probably forgive yourself eventually. I once thought I wanted to have a huge warehouse, until I did a few of them. I'm much happier to just do it on a smaller scale all myself. Then again somebody has to do it, maybe you're that guy. Lot of things to consider is all i'm saying.......