Mexican Rudy

[horror business]

I'm wondering if anyone has any information about this strain, that was used by the Joint Doctor to create Lowryder. While it's lineage is still unknown, the JD believes it to be a cross of a Mexican Sativa and Russian Ruderalis. He described it as being medium potency and staying very short.

Since LR is Mexican Rudy with Norther Lights #2 and William's Wonder, I'm wondering if the original Mexican Rudy was even more compact than today's Lowryder?

I'm wondering if anyone here has had experience with that strain, and if they can share any information they may have on it, as it interests me.

Peace,
horror business

 

[Thule]

So it's a proven fact by JD that lowryder is derived from the mexican ruderalis? That's what I thought based on some old articleds posted here earlier. Sorry, I don't have any information on it, but if anyone has it would be nice to hear some new facts. Unfortunately people have very little interest in autoflower strains here.

I wonder where JD got his mexican ruderalis and where the dwarf size came from. To my knowledge ruderalis plants grow up to a decent size. Maybe Neville found a mutant among his crosses. Who knows really.

 

[jim dankness]

in the old 'king of the cannabis castle' article, there are some pictures of nevil's 'mexican dwarf' plant. i'm not sure it's got any ruderalis in it, however-- it seems like it's just a freak with a shorter stature than the conventional mexican sativa.

 

[Farmer John]

I always thought LR had Mighty Mite in it? Well, anyway, its just as good smoke as hemp is imho..

 

[Thule]

I always thought LR had Mighty Mite in it? Well, anyway, its just as good smoke as hemp is imho..

Oh come on

Lowryder get's you high. Atleast it works for me. Maybe not for the heavy weights. But yep, it doesn't have mighty mite in it. Mm's autoflower qualities are too week to begin with..

 

[horror business]

Well here is what I know about Lowryder's lineage, thanks to a joint doctor interview. I'll copy and paste the parts where he talks about it:

"How and where did you acquire the auto-flowering genetics?

Many years ago I started trading seed with a new acquaintance, Antonio, who is now sadly passed on. A spry, dreadlocked Mexico expatriate, Antonio had been collecting and growing unusual strains for 30-plus years. We met through mutual acquaintances and became great friends, though he was old enough to be my dad. I learnt a great deal through him, and we shared a passion for collecting rare plants; from blue potatoes to poppies and hemp. Getting to the point, one of the types of cannabis seed I acquired from Antonio was called “Mexican Rudy,” a strain which stayed short and flowered earlier than anything else we had. I didn’t know too much about it. At first the name seemed contradictory: “Rudy” almost certainly stood for ruderalis, a mythical, rare subspecies of wild cannabis from Siberia which has a short growth habit and quick life cycle; but I failed to see the link with Mexico, though it was the country of Antonio’s origin. Was this simply an unrelated ruderalis-like plant from Mexico, or did it have a link to the real thing? Although no-one can be sure until some type of genetic fingerprinting is done, I now believe that the Mexican Rudy was actually an experimental cross of Russian ruderalis and Mexican cannabis, made sometime in the 1970s, possibly at the U. of Mississippi in the U.S. I found obscure references to this very cross in scientific literature circa 1978. In any case, the strain was kept and grown out in Canada for several years before it got to me. The Rudy was indeed a short, quick-flowering strain, with medium potency. To improve its taste, strength, and just to experiment a little, I crossed it first with a Northern Lights #2 female, then a William’s Wonder clone. Out of the second generation of hybrids, a selection of extremely short and quick plants, flowering immediately under 24 hours of daylight, were selected for further multiplication. All the subsequent generations retained this “autoflowering” characteristic. The hybrid, dubbed simply Willy’s Automatic at first, became the basis for Lowryder. I grew the variety out on a small scale, selecting the best specimens for another five or six generations before it became commercialized. Unfortunately, Antonio passed away before Lowryder’s commercial potential was realized. That’s the toughest part for me: I will never be able to properly thank him. At least, we can talk about him now and acknowledge his contribution with no fear of getting him in trouble. Bless you Antonio."

 

[horror business]

So does anyone have any experience with Mexican Rudy, or have any information and/or photos to share?

Is the "micro" pheno of Lowryder the Mexican Rudy phenotype? Because, other than Mexican Rudy, the strains in the lineage of Lowryder aren't that small at all, so it has to be the Mexican Rudy that gives the plant it's short characteristics and especially the micropheno, no?

Perhaps mdanzig knows something about this?

 

[Guest]

I always thought Lowryder was a micro pheno of Closet Queen crossed to Mighty Mite then inbred. I'm very sceptical about a 'Mexican rudy'.

 

[horror business]

Well, it's from the Joint Doctor's mouth. Here's a link to the whole interview: http://www.lowryder.co.uk/en/about-seedsman/joint-doctor-interview

 

[elRoachoGrande]

the _short_ comes from the _autoflowering_.. no?

it's that it autoflower so EAAARLY that it dosent get very tall..

 

[reaperz]

what? lol

 

[horror business]

I guess no one knows anything about it...

 

[tetragrammaton]

Well, I was going to make a thread about Mexican Rudy and Ruderalis in general, but doing a quick title search led me here, and I see that over a decade later, still no one knows much about Mexican Rudy and The Joint Doctor's beliefs. It appears to me that the only one who would know more about the strain than The Joint Doctor, is Antonio, who as he mentioned passed away.

So, I came to the conclusion that unless it was indeed a cross between a Russian Ruderalis and a Mexican Sativa as TJD believes, and that literature from the late 70's can be found, any search into the origins of Mexican Rudy is futile.

But, with that said, it leads me to another question, about Ruderalis in general. I don't know much about autoflowering strains, but with the rise in popularity, and the fact that they've come such a long way since the Lowryder days, with seed companies claiming they only have about 4% Ruderalis in them, I was curious about the cannabinoid profile of ruderalis plants. From what The Joint Doctor said, Mexican Rudy was mildly potent, but it wasn't a pure ruderalis, it was crossed with a Mexican sativa hence the name "Mexican Rudy". With that said, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but ruderalis is a type of feral hemp low in psychoactivity.

Now a days it seems that CBD flower and/or tinctures, etc... etc... are all the rage in states that haven't legalized medicinal or recreational cannabis, and/or for people who enjoy the benefits the flower provides them, without the "intoxicating" effects.

Has anyone done testing on Mexican Rudy and/or Lowryder? I'm curious if Mexican Rudy, and more particularly Ruderalis in general, have a significant % of CBD. Or at least significant enough to be beneficial for those who only like CBD.

I am not personally interested in CBD strains, or products, as I like the "real deal", but I'm asking this question because I'm genuinely curious. It is known that hemp in itself is very low % THC, but I'm not sure what the % of CBD is. When I smoked hemp flowers, I got an effect similar to people who smoke CBD flower describe. It did not get me high, yet it relaxed me.

This makes me wonder what a feral version would be like in terms of cannabinoid and terpenoid profile.

If anyone has any information to contribute regarding Mexican Rudy or Ruderalis in general, concerning the cannabinoid and terpenoid profile, please let me know.

Peace and Love,
Tetra

 

[tetragrammaton]

Well one thing I've learned on my time here on this planet, is that sometimes you have to do your own research to find your answers. Since no one was able to help, it lead me to investigate further, and now The Joint Doctor has different/new information especially regarding Ruderalis, and how he believes it's not really a sub-species, but rather cultivated hemp or "drug" varieties that were once cultivated, but escaped and managed to survive. His words not mine. Here is what he now has to say about Mexican Rudy, Lowryder, and Autoflowering strains in general, in the History of Lowryder. Very interesting information, albeit not a quick read. The following is the text:

The creation of Lowryder has been a lengthy process. Lowryder came out of a desire to breed innovative Cannabis, coupled with the limitations presented by confined spaces (and time) in often-changing locations, both indoor and out.

Growing up on a farm, the Joint Doctor took an early interest in Cannabis cultivation. Bringing some seed with him to college, he supplied his head stash by growing small plants in his dorm room and the adjacent woodlot. These “extra-curricular” activities, in time, turned out to be the beginning of a career in Cannabis research.

Later, while traveling, the Joint Doctor observed ganja plantations, wild patches of Cannabis, towering hemp fields, and even ornamental hemp, learning a great deal about the incredible diversity of this species. He soon became convinced that nearly anything is possible, in the marijuana breeding department. To create new, better varieties, he reasoned, all that was needed was some diverse sources of high-quality genes, a keen eye for observation, lots of time and patience, and as it turns out, a bit of luck.

“I have always been attracted to novel and unusual characteristics in plants. Living on a farm, I started playing around with unusual varieties of food crops with seeds brought from exotic places at about the same time I started experimenting with Cannabis – over 20 years ago. Later on, I attempted to create smaller strains of Cannabis for myself, to grow in small spaces, using unrelated genetics. I think that making the most of small spaces is a strong recurring theme, especially in Europe. At one point during my travels, I visited a friend whose family lived in a typically small, cramped working-class apartment. The previous summer, when I had first stopped by to visit, I turned his open-minded mom on to her first taste of marijuana – totally unprejudiced, she was immediately taken by the weed’s euphoric effects, exclaiming, ‘I like this better than vodka!”

Now, my friend’s mother was attempting to grow some weed on a windowsill, from seeds I had donated on my last visit. I doubted this was practical. ‘Wouldn’t it be neat,’ I thought, ‘if someone could develop a dwarf type of pot that would work for windowsills, balconies, and cramped apartments?’”

The idea stuck, and gave new direction to the Joint Doctor’s projects. About the same time, he began to trade seed with a new friend, Antonio, a spry, dreadlocked Mexican expatriate who had been collecting and growing unusual strains for 30-plus years.

“One of the types of Cannabis seed I acquired from Antonio was called “Mexican Rudy,” a strain which stayed short and flowered earlier than anything else we had. I didn’t know too much about it. At first the name seemed contradictory: “Rudy” almost certainly stood for Ruderalis, a mythical, rare subspecies of wild Cannabis from Siberia which has a short growth habit and quick life cycle; but I failed to see the link with Mexico, though it was the country of Antonio’s origin. Was this simply an unrelated Ruderalis-like plant from Mexico, or did it have a link to the real thing?”

Although no-one can be sure until some type of genetic fingerprinting is done, it’s possible the Mexican Rudy was actually an experimental cross of Russian Ruderalis and Mexican Cannabis, made sometime in the 1970s, possibly at the U. of Mississippi in the U.S. or at U. of Ottawa (Dr. Small). In any case, the strain was kept and grown out in Canada for several years previously. The Rudy was indeed a short, quick-flowering strain, but with medium potency. But it provided Antonio and his friends with some well-needed stash in mid-summer, before normal plants had even thought about budding.

“It was very fast-maturing, and very hardy, although the potency was low to medium. At first, I crossed it with a Northern Lights #2 (also known as Closet Queen or Oasis) that I knew was also a compact plant, but more potent. These F1 seeds gave some really nice, vigorous moms, and although they weren’t autoflowering, they were quick and compact. As I understood much later, the autoflowering trait wasn’t expressed in the F1 since it was recessive. Not really knowing what I had, I decided to cross this F1 with a few different varieties, of the best clones I had around.”

Without specific expectations, the Joint Doctor crossed the Rudy with a Northern Lights #2 female, then with a William’s Wonder clone. It was the offspring of the experimental 3-way cross that brought back the recessive autoflowering genes into the equation, most likely inherited from the Rudy.

“I was beginning to have an eye for novel characteristics. I had a tendency to keep seeds and strains that many a grower would have thrown out as off-types. When growing out the next generation of seedlings, in particular a batch of William’s Wonder x (NL#2 x Rudy) seedlings, my buddy and I noticed some very unusual male plants that flowered immediately, when they were still basically seedlings. This was unheard of, especially in a room receiving under 24 hours of light!”

It was a real Eureka moment. Fortunately, the Joint Doctor kept the unusual plants and was able to stabilise the autoflowering trait in them, while many growers would have rejected the plants as weird or off-types. Only these novelty plants were kept for further multiplication, and all the subsequent generations retained this “autoflowering” characteristic. The hybrid, dubbed simply Willy’s Automatic at first, became the basis for Lowryder.

“I used these “freak” dwarf males as pollinators, and lo and behold, my next generation consisted exclusively of tiny plants that matured automatically at no more than 12 inches and less than 60 days from seed. An ideal closet cultivar. It seemed incredible. And the taste and potency were great too, retaining the structure and scent reminiscent of the William’s Wonder, coupled with a sort of wild, earthy but pleasant aftertaste inherent in ruderalis. The hybrid, dubbed simply Willy’s Automatic at first, became the basis for Lowryder. All the subsequent generations retained this autoflowering characteristic. The name Lowryder came to me during a morning session on the porcelain throne, reading my favorite car magazine, LOWRIDER. I grew the variety out on a small scale, in a closet in the winter, and in my garden during the summer, selecting the best specimens, for several generations before it was released on any scale.”

The next step was to introduce autoflowering to the new generation of home growers. But that’s a whole other chapter.

 

[tetragrammaton]

A continuation:

Autoflowering has come a long way in the past ten years. When Lowryder first came out, circa 2003, autoflowering was still a vague, unknown concept. There were very few actual 100% autoflowering varieties in existence, and the concept was just taking shape.

Worthy of mention, Mighty Mite, A short, early-flowering variety from B.C.’s Gulf Island, had some underground fame in Canada for its ability to finish in August. It was basically an autoflowering strain, although the word wasn’t being used yet.

On the Dutch side, Sensi Seeds had already been offering Ruderalis Skunk and Ruderalis Indica in its catalog for some time, one of famed breeder Nevil’s experimental crosses. In the description it still says: “Around 50% of Ruderalis Skunk plants will auto-flower. As with Ruderalis Indica, blooming starts at the 5th to 7th set of branches, typically within 5-10 weeks of germination, depending on how quickly plants are able to vegetate in a given climate. The other 50% of plants grown from seed will react to photoperiod, and will be triggered to flower around the same time as strains such as Early Girl and Early Skunk. This makes it possible for garden growers to have a double harvest each season with Ruderalis Skunk.” So Ruderalis Skunk only autoflowered some of the time – it seems the breeder was unable or unwilling to stabilise the trait.

An article was published in Cannabis Culture in 2003, titled “The return of Ruderalis” by DMT. While Lowryder is not mentioned by name, probably because it was still too obscure, the article goes into an interesting discussion about the potential that Ruderalis hybrids might hold for the future. “Deep in the North American woods lurks a recent addition to the marijuana gene pool: Ruderalis hybrids!” The author goes on to conclude that, “a couple of auto-flowers on the back deck will likely fit the lifestyle of many more folks than would an ordinary grow room.”

Cannabis Sativa Ruderalis

Some of you may be wondering if you missed something: what exactly is the connection between Ruderalis and autoflowering? Simply put, autoflowering comes from Ruderalis. Autoflowering is a set of traits that originated in semi-wild populations of Cannabis, or Ruderalis, and that has now been incorporated into new varieties. More technically, autoflowering means: a plant that flowers on its own, or has a determinate lifespan, as opposed to a traditional or indeterminate one which follows seasonal cues, especially day length. Autoflowering. Determinate. Dwarf. Low-bush. These term show the parallels with other types of cultivated plants crops, not just Cannabis.

It’s actually easier to explain what autoflowering is to a non-grower. People without preconceptions about Cannabis growing easily grasp the concept of a determinate lifespan, rather than one that depends on the light cycle or season. They don’t have to unlearn anything. That’s part of the reasons why many entry-level growers are attracted to Autoflowers.

All types of Cannabis, it is scientifically accepted, form a single species, Cannabis Sativa, divided into three sub-species: Sativa(“cultivated”), Indica (“Indian”), and Ruderalis. The term Cannabis ruderalis was coined by Russian botanist Janischewsky in 1924. In the loose, imperfect classification system for marijuana, is the name given to a sub-species growing wild in parts of Russia and eastern Europe. But it’s important to separate myth from reality. Rather than describing a truly feral or wild type of Cannabis, Ruderalis was actually a term used to decribe certain types of hemp which escaped cultivation and adapted to the surrounding region.

These types have appeared spontaneously in many areas of the world where Cannabis is cultivated, be it for fiber, food, of medicine. Truly wild types of Cannabis may exist; however, not so common as you would think. A truly wild strain of Cannabis would have to have been perpetually isolated from cultivated strains, which is unlikely given how widespread hemp and marijuana cultivation are in the world.

So what we often think of as Ruderalis is actually a more or less recent offspring of cultivated crops. In the U.S. Midwest this is sometimes referred to as ditchweed, the “weed” part meaning “useless” in this case. Fact I have seen myself, it only takes a few years for an escaped hemp or marijuana seed of a given variety to adapt to a new environment in the wild, through natural selection, IF it survives. Subsequent generations will usually take a more stout aspect, flower earlier, have smaller seeds, and soon bear no resemblance to their cultivated ancestors. Sometimes, the opposite happens. A new type of useful cultivated plant is bred or accidentally selected by humans, mating wild ancestors with current cultivars. It’s well known that wild individuals can be a great source of hardiness and disease resistance. So over time, and on the margins, there’s a two-way exchange of genes between wild and cultivated strains.

The point is, Ruderalis is not really a specific line or sub-species. It describes a phenomenon that can occur with just about any species of cannabis that “goes wild”. This explains how there could be so many Ruderalis bloodlines with completely different origins. So the “Mexican Ruderalis” that is the ancestor of Lowryder and many autoflowering strains today, may really have nothing to do with Russia. And more importantly, there may be many other distinct autoflowering landrances yet to be discovered – or yet to appear- and to use as genetic There are breeders who have already embarked on that quest.

Limits of Taxonomy

For me, the traditional classification system’s usefulness, the whole sativa-indica-ruderalis thing, has its limits. Because after a while all these lines and borders start to get too complicated, and seem vague and arbitrary. Things are not that clean-cut. And they are almost beside the point: We could argue about these semantic and botanical classification issues for eons, but things won’t really be cleared up until genetic scientists concentrate on Cannabis and actually decode the myriad of complex and ancient lineages that lead to the present.

The real question is, does autoflowering contribute anything useful to farmers and gardeners? If it didn’t, I don’t think we would be sitting here yapping about it after all this time.

Sidebar on Ruderalis

The first known experiments in crossing Ruderalis cousins were actually done by Ernest Small of Agriculture Canada in Ontario during the 1970′s, for the “aiding in the purposes of taxonomic classification… Crosses between these strains usually produced offspring of intermediate THC levels, with a few that leaned more towards the high THC end of the spectrum.” These varieties were not released, but is impossible to say whether any of these crosses were maintained or shared with someone. It’s quite possible that Lowryder is descended from one of these crosses.

Lowryder was the first 100% autoflowering variety to actually be marketed. It is the product of a cross between Northern Lights #2, William’s Wonder, and an unknown plant called “Mexican Rudy” which I had obtained from a longtime friend. It was an accidental discovery I made that led to the breakthrough. The experimental cross began to flower almost immediately after the seedling stage, under 24 hours of light! Luckily, I was able to stabilise the trait.

Since then, many new and better autoflowering varieties have been released, most but not all directly descended from Lowryder. These new varieties combine the taste and potency of proven varieties with the short stature and quick growth of the wild ancestor.

It used to be that seed companies would shy away from autoflowering or anything having to do with Ruderalis because it is basically equated with ditchweed. And there used to be this great fear that this “wild” pot would contaminate the world’s supply of good weed with less potent crap. But this argument has lost its sway. By now, we are many plant breeding generations later – at least twenty or more. Enough time to breed out any undesirable traits resulting from the Ruderalis, like lower potency, while conserving the autoflowering trait. However many of the early reports of low potency, in my opinion, had to do with the lack of knowledge about how to grow and when to harvest autoflowers, as much than an actual tendency.