"Medical pot dispensaries have done a terrible job"

[SpasticGramps]

I'm sorry I just couldn't help myself. Blue, I hope you don't take it personally. You can paint me as a right wing nut (no religion though, don't subscribe to that).

I know we agree on the fact that the dispensaries are operating outside the stated law, but it's a only a tooth in a cog at this point. Economics dominate everything. There is going to be a backlash against the process of legalization (and this is a multi-year deal we are in) but our economic influence and yes corruption is blooming and has well entrenched roots. Green paves all roads. It's an unfortunate aspect of humanity and the reality if you subscribe to Hobbes's theory of the State of Nature. which I do. Humans always seek to control others in one way or another.

 

[David420]

Whats weird about it is if you don't look sick enough to get you prescription drugs from a pharmacy it's no problem. But if you don't look sick enough to go to a dispensary it's a problem. If a new prescription drug rises to 100,000 patients its great, but if dispensaries have 100,000 patients it's suddenly "out of control", and "must be selling to non sick patients". It makes no sense to me.

 

[SeniorBuzz]

newcomer here, trying to gain a better understanding of the issues, around mmj dispensaries

OK, the dispensaries are paying sales tax, or at least they are supposed to be, to be operating within the guidelines, and they are supposed to be operating on a non-profit basis?

My question is, and please educate me: are the mmj growers selling to the dispensaries paying any tax?

what are the guidelines for operating as a grower for mmj dispensaries, or are there any?..

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Fuck assholes like chipman. Seems he is more interested in "whats good for him" then what is good for his community. Sorry chipman, this isnt YOUR WORLD, you self centered self righteouss asshole....

 

[SpasticGramps]

newcomer here, trying to gain a better understanding of the issues, around mmj dispensaries

OK, the dispensaries are paying sales tax, or at least they are supposed to be, to be operating within the guidelines, and they are supposed to be operating on a non-profit basis?

My question is, and please educate me: are the mmj growers selling to the dispensaries paying any tax?

what are the guidelines for operating as a grower for mmj dispensaries, or are there any?..

My understanding is that the law was intended to for collectives and co ops to operate as non-profits and distribute the medicine. Storefronts are logically the easiest way to do this. Unfortunately, a lot of them are just greedy. As if you can't make a lot running a legal MMJ show. The contradiction of the legality of MMJ makes it all very gray. They are supposed to pay tax and I'm sure most do pay some. There is a lot of $$$$ under the table though.

 

[nephilthim]

Fuck assholes like chipman. Seems he is more interested in "whats good for him" then what is good for his community. Sorry chipman, this isnt YOUR WORLD, you self centered self righteouss asshole....

to that end would someone out all these pricks businesses god forbid anyone of us ever has a window made by him that would be more of a travesty then having the misfortune of knowing people like this breathe air on a daily basis.
if only that 2 cent trash bag twirling in the wind stuck to a fence,tumbleweed could just miracurously find its way across chipmans head and stay there.

 

[DIGITALHIPPY]

just slam from the right...
san diego is real conserv. . .
still dont understand why ppl believe the media etc. the only thing there doing is trying to use the current systems to come up with new ways of prohibition, and city officials havent gotten the message from the people.
although, in san diego, there arnt many of "thoes people"...

although dispos are gaming the system there are an amazing amount of "actualy sick" attending these institutions also. ive seen security ppl helping wheelchair ppl etc.

i still believe weed is in the same catagory as beer, 'legalization wise' id, allow anyone over 21, 'luxary tax', even for the sick. because price would be reasonable if it were allowed to be produced in a safe way.(i.e. code officials) = competition/price wars.

i know i battle 'other dealers' in my area with price cuts. gets me more business, so i can make less each time. like wal-mart.

 

[imnotcrazy]

See, the issue at hand is Not For Profit businesses/organizations do, on the regular have FULL-TIME PAID Employees (CEO all the way on down). The point of a Not For Profit is the COMPANY itself shows no profit. It has nothing to do with compensation given to the workers of said organization.

Think Salvation Army, The Gates Foundation etc. I know for a FACT Bill Gates Sr. is getting FAT STACKS out of their Not For Profit, philanthropic organization... It's QUITE probable that these organizations would have went the way of the dodo a long time ago if they were operated via volunteers only.

 

[Blue Dot]

The point of a Not For Profit is the COMPANY itself shows no profit. It has nothing to do with compensation given to the workers of said organization.

Then why wouldn't every company just organise as not for profit and pay themselves well why avoiding corporate tax?

There's obviously a law somewhere that says most companies can't organise this way so it's pretty frustrating for us patients that dispensaries have usurped the intention of 215 just as a loophole to use to pay themselves greedy amounts.

Clearly the system was never set up or intended for something like this to occur so why should i have sympathy for dispensaries that are knowingly doing this to game the system?

it's just makes me dislike them even more.

 

[Blue Dot]

It's QUITE probable that these organizations would have went the way of the dodo a long time ago if they were operated via volunteers only.

It's not probable at all considering there are still MANY organizations who rely on volunteer work with little to no compensation.

 

[imnotcrazy]

Yeah, but how would the volunteers even know where to go without PAID employees organizing for them?????? You do realize all the people who make these decisions ARE being paid, more than likely hourly or salaried full-time positions..

I also know that most of the Salvation Army and other non-profit thrift stores pay the people who man the register daily...... The people who run these organizations at the top levels are usually lookin at 6 figures on their W2 statements........

Do you honestly believe ALL of the donations given to the Salvation Army and other non-profits go to those in need? It's called operating costs..

How bout you go and look up the laws and regulations in place for not for profit businesses BEFORE you jump the gun spreading bad info? I mean do you even realize how many not for profit organizations are tax shelters for the rich?????

 

[ureapwhatusow]

Wiki

Whereas for-profit corporations exist to earn and distribute taxable business earnings to shareholders, the nonprofit corporation exists solely to provide programs and services that are of public benefit. Often these programs and services are not otherwise provided by local, state, or federal entities. While they are able to earn a profit, more accurately called a surplus, such earnings must be retained by the organization for its future provision of programs and services. Earnings may not benefit individuals or stake-holders.[2] Nonprofit organizations may put substantial funds into hiring leadership and management personnel. In the past many nonprofits considered this to be unreasonably businesslike and money-focused, but since the late 1980s there has been a growing consensus that nonprofits can achieve their missions more effectively by using some of the same methods developed in for-profit enterprises. These include effective internal management, ensuring accountability for results, and monitoring the performance of different divisions or projects in order to make the best use of their funds and people. Those require management and that, in turn, begins with the organization's mission.[3]

 

[SeniorBuzz]

Wiki

Whereas for-profit corporations exist to earn and distribute taxable business earnings to shareholders, the nonprofit corporation exists solely to provide programs and services that are of public benefit. Often these programs and services are not otherwise provided by local, state, or federal entities. While they are able to earn a profit, more accurately called a surplus, such earnings must be retained by the organization for its future provision of programs and services. Earnings may not benefit individuals or stake-holders.[2] Nonprofit organizations may put substantial funds into hiring leadership and management personnel. In the past many nonprofits considered this to be unreasonably businesslike and money-focused, but since the late 1980s there has been a growing consensus that nonprofits can achieve their missions more effectively by using some of the same methods developed in for-profit enterprises. These include effective internal management, ensuring accountability for results, and monitoring the performance of different divisions or projects in order to make the best use of their funds and people. Those require management and that, in turn, begins with the organization's mission.[3]

Given time, I would be interested in discussing what an ideal, completely above-board, non-profit mmj indooor growing dispensary might look like, with like-minded individuals. Seems to me, with planning and preparation, this could turn into a very viable, stable, operation, for the right people/employees providing much lower cost drugs to those in need, along with other necessities. Think of being able to help others, by focusing on the exact thing you would love to do for the rest of your life, receiving good wages, medical insurance, vacation pay, without any of the worries. Done correctly, with time it could be all of that and more. Undoubtedly, it would require some sacrifice on the front end, but it is well worth any of us investing in our future, while filling a need for so many others.

 

[Blue Dot]

In the past many nonprofits considered this to be unreasonably businesslike and money-focused, but since the late 1980s there has been a growing consensus that nonprofits can achieve their missions more effectively by using some of the same methods developed in for-profit enterprises.

Oh, why doesn't that suprise me that right after Regan all the "Me" generation in the 80's said, "Screw that, lets twist non-profits, like we do EVERYTHING else, into profit making enterprises. Screw that "old-style" thinking that voluteerism is good for the soul, afterall we have no soul so whats the difference". lol

 

[imnotcrazy]

You're reading it completely WRONG.... The company itself is a not-for-profit organization.

That doesn't mean they can not allocate competitive salaries for their employees. This enables them to draw higher talent personnel comparable with the salaries being paid to the people working in the for-profit sector.

The economy changed in the 1980's yes, but not because of the Non profits. They were forced to change; to be able to draw in a competitive workforce that can get the job done. Otherwise, all of the capable people these organizations have employed would be working for a For Profit organization and the not for profits would be left with the "bottom of the barrel" candidates.

This includes the owner/proprietor of said not-for-profit organization.

Would YOU go to work for free???

 

[Blue Dot]

^I get it. A bunch of yuppie "Me' generation people decided that it's better to make everything a for profit venture then to actually give back to society.

Just because this is what has happened since the late 80's doesn't mean it's right. It's just what has happened, even though there are plenty of people like me who think it is selfish.

Why do you think the dispensaries in LA are getting so much heat to shut down?

Because well all know this not for profit spin you're talking about is BS.

Lets just say I'd like it if we returned to before the late 80's with Regan and all his BS.

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

Well in California there are several different classes of non profits. The most common being Non Profit Public Benefit Corporation, Religous Non Profit Corporation, and Mutual Benefit Non Profit Corporation.

So how does this apply to mmj.

Well a public benefit is designed so that the general public recieves its services. If you use the AG guidelines mmj collectives aren't eligible to be public benefits because you have to be member in order to get medicine.

Religous corporations are for churches. There have been a few churches that use cannabis as a holy sacrament.

Mutual Benefit corporations are what collectives should organize under in my opinion. The reason being is that they are for the benefit of the members only not the general public. Since the AG says collectives have to be closed loop (for members, by members blah blah blah) when it comes to herb this is the most logical legal structure for an entity.


FYI benefit and profit are synonyms. Gotta love bullshit semantics.

The real difference between for profit and non profit is ownership stake. Non profits don't have shareholders.

 

[Hammerhead]

Has there been any dispensaries closed down in the north bay area and surrounding area's. I have not herd of any. All of the ones being closed that I see are in LA and San Diego.

 

[Blue Dot]

Mutual Benefit corporations are what collectives should organize under in my opinion. The reason being is that they are for the benefit of the members only not the general public. Since the AG says collectives have to be closed loop (for members, by members blah blah blah) when it comes to herb this is the most logical legal structure for an entity.

But Jerry also says that these benefits must be distributed equitably amongst all the members as well as the owners/operators employees.

How does being paid minimum wage to be a budtender mean they are being treated equitably.

Or for that matter how about all the damn members who see NONE of the "surplus", ie profit.

How are the members being treated equitably? They aren't, so most if not all dispensaries are not operating by Jerry's guidelines which mean the cites have a basis to raid them.

You may think Jerry's guidelines are merely guidelines but the cities use them as if they are law and until a judge comes along and says this is incorrect then that's just how LA and SD cites will continue to go about business as usual.

 

[SeniorBuzz]

But Jerry also says that these benefits must be distributed equitably amongst all the members as well as the owners/operators employees.

How does being paid minimum wage to be a budtender mean they are being treated equitably.

Or for that matter how about all the damn members who see NONE of the "surplus", ie profit.

How are the members being treated equitably? They aren't, so most if not all dispensaries are not operating by Jerry's guidelines which mean the cites have a basis to raid them.

You may think Jerry's guidelines are merely guidelines but the cities use them as if they are law and until a judge comes along and says this is incorrect then that's just how LA and SD cites will continue to go about business as usual.

caregivers are allowed to receive compensation/remuneration for their efforts.