making OD seeds, special male

[c00k1eFunk]

Hello!
First Post and i hope this is the right Forum, if not please move it to the right one, sry.

Now to my topic: Making some OD Seeds for 51°n lat.
This year was very dry and extremely sunny! Thats the good part, the bad part was guerilla handwatering 30big bushes from juni to end Aug.. The girls look super and are perfectly healthy, only problem is this is my latest flower onset EVER...
I took some InDoor seeds Cookies,OG,... and crossed them with mostly GranolaFunk not the best idea but i hat this plants and no time to start new seeds at that time of the year.(was too busy)
Usually I see some Flowers mid August. this year 2 out of 20 have started flowering mid august, thats too late.

now its getting interesting. i germinated some OD seeds to find some Males to hit my strains (mostly ID strains).
I want to bring the flowering onset from mid/end of august to lets say mid-end July. eg: My cookies start to flower september 1st, so i hit them with early early male and the outcome will start flowering somewhere inbetween and sould end up more potent than OD male, am i right so far?

now, i germinated the seeds 3-4weeks ago with 18-19h lights on...
today i have 2, 5" plants showing sex... its like week 3, and i transplanted from 0.3Liter cups into 0.75cups after week 2...
Organic soil, RO water and once i gave some Kelp tea about a week ago...

What i find strange is the very early sex of the two males(looking almost identical) have a third plant from this pack much smaller and i think this is going to be the fem.

Friends, please help me! I am afraid this is some kind of autoflowering stuff going on there, but i ordered photoperiod seeds!
Breeder HFH:Leb29s (sativa)


Would you say i am doing good at hitting my earlier OD this year whith their pollen?
Would You say i am right believing that my flowering times would become shorter and the effect stronger if i hit my girls with these males?( stronger than Leb29s i mean.
I cant grow 10-12week strains at my lat. and i cant grow late flowering 8-9weeks most of the years. but i could grow pretty much everything if it would start flowering in July!!!
Would be so great to have cookies (selfmade reverse ) and 501stOg and Karma Polar Bear X outdoor in my garden, after smoking Strong weed in the spring and summer, its always a little drawback to start smoking 10+%thc weed in autumn/winter year after year..

many thanks to all of you guys, and i am glad to be back on board once again, love this site

 

[c00k1eFunk]

another question was, if i cross the male with the female, the outcome will all be mostly the same regular seeds, right? the second generation would start to show og leaning and leb leaning plants, but first seeds are all very simillar right? and if i wanted the really special fast stuff i could store the pollen and hit my fastest outcome girl with the same pollen again to get even faster seeds right?

 

[crannog]

my experience with HFH stuff is it has autoflowering tendencies. my danish gold and polish demon are just finished but i also have a lebanese from real seed company which is finishing soon. seems like lebanese genetics would be good to speed up flowering...

 

[c00k1eFunk]

thanks for jumping in cannog bro.
yes i think youre right it might be auto phenos, but 2/3 plants autoflowering is strange, i would expect less auto outcome from photoperiods if this is just a pheno.. but maybe luck

crossing a girl to an autoflower, what would most probably come out?
100% light sensitive semiautos ?
50%regular, 50%auto?
or like 25%auto,25%semi,25%reular,25%late flowering?
sry i read about crossing but always to much at once and too late at nigt not sure whats right.
this is called making s1 right? crossing s1 back to male will result in f1? and crossing s1 to s1 is called f2 and outcome will be mixed genetics with many phenotypes right?

I am already using EM, Trichoderma, WaterChrystals, Kelp Teas, Comfrey,nettles, Horsetail Teas and Extracts, neemoil, and lots of organic amendments like guanos, meals and i am having greatest results that i could wish myself. really only major problem is latest flowering ever this year.

please if somebody could help me along with this would be great! thats my bottleneck right now

have made seeds from autoamnesia x Mendo madness and didnt label them this spring, but i got 3 instant-autoflowers (1/4oz pP ) this season and 2 early flowers(had total of 6seeds germinated from this, 1 male culled). that would make sense
anways my granola funk mix is too late 20 plants not flowering end of august is NOT funny at 51°n...

i could simply grow autos and early strains, erdpurt, kc33, leb, wild monk, mendocino madness... have smoked and grown all of them...
simple afghani performs much better for me(except MendoMadness wich is great), is stronger and yealds muuuuch more than any of the early strains, 10%mould is still better if you have a 9x9feet plant rather than some 2OZ plants with low thc and no mould for me...

thats why i would love to have early GSC, OG and other Hybrinds with power and character crossed to my LEB29s males.

please help IC mag, i know you can!

is thanx i will post some pictures of my project and report my results.
will be great if it works

 

[steasy88]

Couldn't you just put a canopy up over ur plants so rain don't hit them or you could of introduced the flowering stage ur self by blacking them out say like begin of July I have no idea on breeding seeds all the best

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

You want what I'm working with, unfortunately it's not ready. There's a (rare these days) strain called Auto-Affie with "Early Flower" genetics. It's not the correct name for them, they're genetics which flower with only 4hrs of dark and veg with 2hrs of dark.

There are a few other strains which might have these same genetics. I know Brickland and Guerrilla Gold #2 and #3 did.

I isolate the specific plants by vegging under 22/2 for 4 months. Anything which autoflowers is tossed. Anything which doesn't flower under 20/4 is tossed. The rest I breed with.

I've been told Royal Dane and Early Dane may have these genes, no solid evidence though.

Having genetics like this would allow you to keep mums and take clones, assist in finding keeper plants for further breeding. As long as you get 4hrs of dark a night, you can put them out any time of year they'll finish without freezing. Quality will definitely be different at different times of the year, extraction to edibles makes this a non-issue.

Be Awesome!

 

[c00k1eFunk]

There we go, as i said, you people are awesome!
some really new ideas for me, thank you!

@[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]steasy88: Thanks for your help, unfortunatly i am growing guerilla style in one of the tightest polulated places of europe. Small planes and helicopters are flying everywhere, over my spots too. thats why its not possible to spread a roof over my plants, another thing are hunters... why the f*** is somebody hunting is central europe? let the dozent hogs and deers do their thang meen.. bored middleclass snobs should go smoke some weed instead ...
im have to ride bike for half an hour nonstop fullspeed to reach my spots, thats another thing why it would be very very hard to cover/uncover all my plants, because i have spots at different places.. just not working for me but thanks.

@[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Douglas.Curtis: Man you hit the nail on its head! This is close to what i was thinking of, finding or creating seeds that are VERY Light Sensitive but not autoflower and still would have more photoperiod plant qualities like longer veg times, bigger plants, rich thc content and good yield.
Your priority is to get even more light sensitive plants then i do.
at my latitude MAY15th has a day lenght of 15.5 hours of light increasing.
this would be my minimal flower initiation time(shortest lightday before plant should go into flower.)
on 25th of July we hit the 15.5h mark again and this would be just the ideal flowering onset!
If my plants are ready on October 1st i will be just fine in most cases!
Do you think i can apply your selection technique to my approach and toss plants that are flowering earlier or later than @ 15h light 9h dark period?

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[gorilla ganja]

s1 means selifed- A female that is reversed and breed to it self.
F1 is first generation of a hybrid cross. f2 second generation and so on.

As far as breeding an auto to a photoperiod strain. The f1 generation should not show any autos, but be a faster version of the photo strain used, usually a week or 2 faster.
F2 generation will show about 25% auto
F3 generation should be 80-90% auto or more
f4 generation should be 100% auto

If you want your plants to flower mid July. They will have to trigger at a little over 16 hrs of light. Few strains around that will do that but not many.

Best of luck in your quest

Peace GG

 

[c00k1eFunk]

and another thing can somebody tell me if i was right with my crossing theories? like what if i hit a regular cookie with autoflowering male? semiauto, auto or random outcome or only way to know is to try??

unfortunatly i have very little space for large seed throws, i try to stay under 20 small plants at the time.. thats why i would like to know what im doing before i do too much

 

[c00k1eFunk]

booom gorilla thank you bro!!

do you have any strain names for me besides the mentioned royal dane?

 

[gorilla ganja]

Like Douglas.Curtis mentioned Auto-Affie, Iranian auto flower, are both very light sensitive.
Some HFH seeds should work as well, not sure which ones. There are several strains around that are (semi- auto) or what ever you want to call them. Like I mentioned above they are faster versions that have auto genes in them and further breeding will bring out more and more of the full auto trait.

Peace GG

 

['Boogieman']

There we go, as i said, you people are awesome!
some really new ideas for me, thank you!

@[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]steasy88: Thanks for your help, unfortunatly i am growing guerilla style in one of the tightest polulated places of europe. Small planes and helicopters are flying everywhere, over my spots too. thats why its not possible to spread a roof over my plants, another thing are hunters... why the f*** is somebody hunting is central europe? let the dozent hogs and deers do their thang meen.. bored middleclass snobs should go smoke some weed instead ...
im have to ride bike for half an hour nonstop fullspeed to reach my spots, thats another thing why it would be very very hard to cover/uncover all my plants, because i have spots at different places.. just not working for me but thanks.

@[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Douglas.Curtis: Man you hit the nail on its head! This is close to what i was thinking of, finding or creating seeds that are VERY Light Sensitive but not autoflower and still would have more photoperiod plant qualities like longer veg times, bigger plants, rich thc content and good yield.
Your priority is to get even more light sensitive plants then i do.
at my latitude MAY15th has a day lenght of 15.5 hours of light increasing.
this would be my minimal flower initiation time(shortest lightday before plant should go into flower.)
on 25th of July we hit the 15.5h mark again and this would be just the ideal flowering onset!
If my plants are ready on October 1st i will be just fine in most cases!
Do you think i can apply your selection technique to my approach and toss plants that are flowering earlier or later than @ 15h light 9h dark period?

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[/FONT]

Unfortunately most hybrids bloom at about 14.5 hours of light (give or take a bit) and equatorial sativa's closer to 12 hours of light. This will leave you with semi auto or full auto strains. I'm from Indiana and I have to grow relatively early strains myself so I feel your pain.

 

[c00k1eFunk]

Thank you all! Really nice to get so much attention and replys!
full autoflowering is not going to work for me, they will end up too small no matter what i do in my climate.
semiauto or light sensitive is what i am going to look for.

as i said, my HfF Leb29s is semiauto or maybe full (maybe i will ask esbe himself in his forum)
going to collect the pollen in a few days and start hitting everything i like for next outdoor season.
i will report back for sure.
Male Leb29s pollen will hit following plants in the next weeks:
-(gsc forum x heavenhaze(soma))x granola funk
-(og x heavenhaze) x granola funk
-karma polar bear
-cookiewreck x biker
-501st og
-gsc forum cut reversed seed f2
-Wild Munk 2014 from HfH (didnt find it on their site it was freebee, maybe danish way to say wild monk?)

after that i will pop 5seeds from each strain and will look for plants that go into flower at 9h dark or shorter...

now, how can i stabilize this semiauto gene later?
if i hit my faster flowering girls with the automale my offsprong will be full auto (DONT WANT)
but i like to get more light sensitive plants?
Only saving the mom for cuttings?
my style of growing is planting seeds outside, so i would like light sensitive FEM seeds.

i take two fast flowering light sensitive girls and reverse one to hit all others?
that way i will end up with feminised stabilized fastflowering seeds?

sorry my long writing, english is not my native language, i try to make you understand what i mean

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

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@[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Douglas.Curtis: Man you hit the nail on its head! This is close to what i was thinking of, finding or creating seeds that are VERY Light Sensitive but not autoflower and still would have more photoperiod plant qualities like longer veg times, bigger plants, rich thc content and good yield.
Your priority is to get even more light sensitive plants then i do.
at my latitude MAY15th has a day lenght of 15.5 hours of light increasing.
this would be my minimal flower initiation time(shortest lightday before plant should go into flower.)
on 25th of July we hit the 15.5h mark again and this would be just the ideal flowering onset!
If my plants are ready on October 1st i will be just fine in most cases!
Do you think i can apply your selection technique to my approach and toss plants that are flowering earlier or later than @ 15h light 9h dark period?

[/FONT]
[/FONT]

Yes, my selection technique will work for you and you can tailor the times to what you specifically need. Flowering, in photoperiod cannabis, is triggered by the buildup of hormones during the dark cycle. I'm looking for 4hrs being my minimum dark for flowering, it sounds like you want more hours. It can be done.

Calculate the number of dark hours you need at minimum, match the local night length for the time of year you want your plants to begin flower. Veg the test genetics with 22/2 lighting for 3-4 months, all your autos should begin flowering out. What's left are the plants you clone and flower with your minimum dark. Remove any which take too long to flower.
Breed with the plants which pass both tests. This will be the beginning of a strain which is specific to your area. Stabilize a strong, sticky, easily cloneable version of this strain and cross it with other strains you want to grow where you are.

 

[c00k1eFunk]

Nice, thank you very much!
i think i am going to pop all lebanese and wild monk seeds that i have and will start testing asap!
3months 22h veg is going to be a challenge due to my little space but i think its doable.

sounds like a plan!
Im so happt that i have produced 1000s of seeds over the years, and have the time to pop all of them time after time until i end up with 2-3 favorite girls for creating new hybrinds wich will all have the ability to flower at my latitude!

Thanx IC, glad to be back!

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Nice, thank you very much!
i think i am going to pop all lebanese and wild monk seeds that i have and will start testing asap!

Uhh... No.

I meant test genetics, as in semi-auto or early flower genetics which may have what you're looking for. Unless the Lebanese and Wild Monk are called Semi-Auto or "Early," you're most likely only going to find 100% autos or 100% regular photoperiod (10hr+ of dark for flowering) Remember, you're going to be working to stabilize a strain which works for your area, THEN you'll cross that to the Lebanese and Wild Monk.

Edit: I see Wild Monk is from HFH, you may want to contact them and ask if they're aware of any early or semi-auto genes in it.

 

[gorilla ganja]

HFH breeds around 55 North I believe, but I think he can go till end of October where he is at. Most of his gear would be considered early.

And it is Wild Monk this is from his site.

"Probably the HFH hybrid with the highest CBD content. Updated Monk, added some flavors and sativa potens from the Wild family. Good up to 59 n lat. Very good against mold. Good yielder of big buds. Please remember that all HFH hybrids are made for the great outdoor and natural lights only."

Hope this helps c00k1eFunk

Peace GG

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

The Wild Monk may indeed carry the genetics needed. No guarantees. Testing will definitely discover it. Any strain with a low count of seeds, I would grow out and open pollinate. Create a massive number of seeds to select from. Keep sprouting a small batch at a time.

By collecting and properly drying/packing/freezing pollen, you'll be able to keep male pollen from each batch. 1/2 to 1 gram packets, get as much as you can from each male. Document as much about the male as you can and mark the packets properly.

When you get to it, you'll have male pollen from many males for a very nice seed making run.

The upside is you'll also (eventually) get enough plants to pass the tests and you'll be able to breed some of *Those* seeds. Then the process repeats. Isn't this fun?

 

[c00k1eFunk]

this is fun indeed douglas, i love growing, i grow for 10Years and I am not even 30years old now. everythings a one man show. Only have helping hands when smoking but i love spending time outside in the bush and on icmag. icmag is btw the only weed related forum that i visit!you guys are much more competent then all growbooks out there combined

to topic:
and yes, i consider wild monk and leb29s to be early/outdoor strains, thats why i reported about two males that showed hairy balls at 3.5weeks max from germ under 19h of light(leb29s)
both strains are outdoorstrains from Esben from HfH, ordered this year from denmark.

i would like to know if there is a way of finding out if my males are autophenotypes or not. if i put a male flowering plant under 24h of light, will it possibly stop flowering?
i think this wont work because there are flowering hormones that continue flowers anyway maybe?

I need a few more posts to write Priveate messages
I will ask if the HfH guy can help me out.

 

[c00k1eFunk]

storing pollen in the fridge is good or should i freeze itf or long term? i had pollen in the fridge for one year now and could try out if its still working.
Mixed some pollen with wheat flour and put it inside ziplock and the ziplock inside a mason jar filled with waterpolymer chrystals to absorb any moisture.
I have previously stored pollen in aluminum paper on my shelf for halp a year at 80°f for over half a year and it was still good.
but i am afraid of freezing pollen since i think freeze/warm freeze/warm is bad for it. idk