Lucas VS. Advanced Nutrients

[Homebrewer]

Could you be more specific. How did Connoisseur ruin your plants..?

At my normal feeding levels, Connoisseur was unable to grow healthy plants while all the other brands could with ease.

What were the manifestations of the Ruination.? Did you run the Connoisseur at their recommended full strength..? That will kill 'em. Gotta work your way UP with nutes at the onset of use.

I'm not familiar with what 'full strength' means. Connoisseur made up less than 1.0 of my total EC. Total EC ranged from 1.0-1.2 during the flowering cycle.

Truth is, all these compounds contain what is necessary to grow plants.. Why did Connoisseur NOT work, when all the rest did..? Could have been one of your additives.

Not all of the bottles in the hydro store work well in all mediums. Normally, hydroponic formulas contain some split of nitrate to ammoniacal nitrogen, usually it's weighted heavily towards nitrate. Connoisseur contains 25% nitrate with the rest being urea (~20%) and other water soluble nitrogen (~55%). IMO, these are poor sources of nitrogen for hydroponic applications due to their high foliar burn potential. Did I mention they're cheap sources too?

Such a general blanket statement needs backing up. Although I am using Botanicare now, I found Connoisseur to be the best thing my plants ever got. That was in DRAIN to WASTE, but I do not see what a difference that would make.

BOG back at Overgrow got me on Botanicare and I used it for 8 years in promix. Worked great actually, but that doesn't mean I'd be quick to throw PureBlend into my hydro tables.



http://140.254.84.203/wiki/index.php/Water_soluble_nitrogen_(WSN)

A form of fertilizer in which the nitrogen is readily available for uptake by plants, and which provides quick color and growth response, limited response duration and high foliar burn and leaching potential; WSN sources are typically less expensive per pound of nutrient than Water insoluble nitrogen (WIN) sources.

Short thread here at ICMAG concerning Urea in hydro:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=220379

Hope this helps.

 

[olddirtybastard]

Nutrients are not usually the limiting factor in most grows. People would be better off spending less on nutes(see maxibloom) and using the money for more light or better equipment, co2 supplementation, etc.

 

[SoulMachete]

Nutrients are not usually the limiting factor in most grows. People would be better off spending less on nutes(see maxibloom) and using the money for more light or better equipment, co2 supplementation, etc.

ODB for the win...i've recently been able to obtain employement at a local supply shop and have been floored watching customers fork over excessive amounts of cash on whatever high priced nutes the staff recomends or the internet says is hot and then buy shitty ballasts, reflectors, pumps, meters, bulbs etc....and then they try and nickel and dime us on that crap as well! fuckers! haha...

 

[stasis]

Again, I never tried Conny in Hydro... But I produced my best work with Connoisseur (in promix), and HB had NO luck... Could have been many things... BOG or no BOG. Apples to Apples. This is the Em Tri, not exactly Beginners'-Land..

I employed feed charts from the manufacturer. With all due respect, If HB did not consult AN on how to feed with Connoisseur, what can one expect...? HB's "normal levels" are not what I am addressing here. Again, I followed the Lightest of the 4 or so feed schedules that AN Publishes, and only 75% of that... My Plants told me that this was the right level to feed at.

If it was a bad product, I would have had a rotten crop. Quite the contrary. It was the best GDP I have ever seen. Rainbow colors, incredible taste, solid enough to scratch glass... And I am hard to please, even when I do the growing.

Although it works, I am finding Botanicare to be quite weak, and best used at or near the levels suggested by the manufacturer (although I stay at 75%) . Using it with Organic Soil, and I like how it works.. In VEG especially... So, price-wise, it comes out about the same as the AN line..! I am adding Fox Farm Tri-Pack solubles (at lowest concentration) to compensate for the lack of OOmph... And in FLOWER it is working well together.

I truly DO appreciate that Botanicare is the first company that I have found that does not ask one to pour wayyy too much of their product in the water to feed. In other words, it is weaker than other Company's formulas - Many of us concur regarding this in my Circle. Much harder to burm the plants.. THAT is a good thing.


Good Luck..!!

 

[Homebrewer]

I employed feed charts from the manufacturer. With all due respect, If HB did not consult AN on how to feed with Connoisseur, what can one expect...? HB's "normal levels" are not what I am addressing here. Again, I followed the Lightest of the 4 or so feed schedules that AN Publishes, and only 75% of that... My Plants told me that this was the right level to feed at.

I've spoken with the guys at AN before and I'd be surprised if their customer service team wasn't wearing Ed Hardy clothes and sunglasses while talking on the phone. It was damn near impossible to get a single bit of horticultural information out of these guys as they seemed to only know what product to plug based on the question that was asked.

Stasis, no matter what food you're using, the recommended doses from the manufacturer really mean nothing. We have EC meters for a reason. Botanicare's veg formula (PureBlend) is decently concentrated and there is no way on Earth it comes out to the same price as the AN line. It's simply not possible. I'm not saying Conni didn't work for you in promix, I'm just saying Conni sucks in hydro while GH, DG, and H&G all did stellar with the exact same parameters.

Stay safe!

 

[Ski]

Anyway to get Maxibloom in Europe?

 

[cultiv8]

To hear some people talk you'd think Advanced Nutrients didn't do ANYTHING right, that they were just a bunch of idiots banging stuff with hammers and drooling down the front of their shirts.

Any company that makes it past a decade knows what it's doing. Any company that makes it through a recession like the one we're having DEFINITELY knows what it's doing.

I'm no expert, but every single dealing I've had with AN so far has been positive and I certainly haven't had any complaints about their tech support.

But then I also haven't decided they're all jerks and formed a lot of prejudice about how they dress. Call me crazy, I guess.

 

[MileHighGuy]

The only tech support I've ever had to call was Advanced haha.

All of us recognize that the shit works. The Value just isn't there.

 

[olderthanbefore]

I've been using Ad 3 years now, the grand master formula, but I've done it every way,tried different formulas, 3/2/1 3/3/3 etc. I average 1 grm per watt with just about every way I've done it, but I usually stick with 3/3/3 and half the amount of additives. Example: 1 cup each of base, and 1/2 cup additives suggested for which ever formula your using. I have a lot of circulation and a lot of aeriation going on in the res. I do run to waste, but somehow the pH lowers everyday, and should be checked daily. I've never had to use any cal/mag.
I've been growing over 40 years, have tried every nute available. Back in the day when F1's were widely available I was using G.H just the base, no additives getting 3-4 ounces from a 14-16in. plant growing in 4in rockwool cubes., but F1's are hard to find these days.
Todays strains are so inbred and unpredictable, more sensitive to nutes than F1's.
What might work well with one strain doesn't mean it will work with another.

 

[vanilla moon]

To hear some people talk you'd think Advanced Nutrients didn't do ANYTHING right, that they were just a bunch of idiots banging stuff with hammers and drooling down the front of their shirts.

Any company that makes it past a decade knows what it's doing. Any company that makes it through a recession like the one we're having DEFINITELY knows what it's doing.

I'm no expert, but every single dealing I've had with AN so far has been positive and I certainly haven't had any complaints about their tech support.

But then I also haven't decided they're all jerks and formed a lot of prejudice about how they dress. Call me crazy, I guess.

dude i think you're being hypersensitive... you're totally putting words in peoples mouths..who said AN doesnt do anything right? some of us have said that we've found easy/cheaper/ and in our opinions better nutrients... i for one, don't give a shit what you use (not trying to be a dick, but take it how ya like), the reason i share my experience is because i get better or equal results with a different product that costs a fraction of what AN charges... everyone does it different, and thats ok..

 

[purple_man]

i wonder how folks were able to grow before there was AN...

blessss

 

[hereigrow]

I just finished my first run with AN conny and big bud. I gotta say that I've gotten better results from gh 3 part , floralicious, and kool bloom. I have to say that the sensi grow 2 part has been easy to use and great results. I wonder if the sensi bloom is better than the conny?? Just my 2 cents

Peace

 

[hereigrow]

I just finished my first run with AN conny and big bud. I gotta say that I've gotten better results from gh 3 part , floralicious, and kool bloom. I have to say that the sensi grow 2 part has been easy to use and great results. I wonder if the sensi bloom is better than the conny?? Just my 2 cents

Peace

 

[stasis]

I don't use the EC system. I profess ignorance about it.

I check the ppms. But, purposely try to keep feedings moderate, no matter what I am using. Highest ppms in soil 800, usually 650. I let the plants tell me. The slightest amount of "Tip Burn" is noted as a point to not feed at a higher concentration.

No worries..! I am loving my Present Botanicare Flowering Regimen w/2ml Nitrozyme OR 75% rec'd dose of Liquid Karma, 3ml Hygrozyme, and 4ml /g (4 liters) Carbo Load OR "Sweet" Berry 5ml, Fox Farm "Tri-pack" Solubles 1/4 tsp/g - all in a local organic soil/coco mix. Greenhouse and Outdoor. Well water, standing ppm 50.. pH at pouring 6.0-6.1 - minimum pH up/down usage. Plants really seem to like it. Mild formula.

Regarding the AN 3-Part knockoff of GH.
They agree it is a knockoff. It also costs about 60% as much as the GH. The plan as I read it was that AN thought it was overpriced, based on what was in it. So they wanted to do it for cheaper. I never used the AN 3-part., but would be willing to try it, if it was that much cheaper. AN also claims that the minerals are Chelated in their 3-Part, and that GH's is not.

I really have no clue what's true with that... But, I think the price is markedly lower than the GH products.

Sheesh Guys. Whatever works for ya is a good formula....

Cheers, and a Great Summer to all..!

 

[slim blue]

Is it a scientifically fair test????

Is it a scientifically fair test????

No point Ball ballin if it isn't.

"I know what's what, the cheaper and the less complicated"...

"And which grows the best weed".

If you like proper good weed don't use any of them.

 

[cultiv8]

I don't use the EC system. I profess ignorance about it.

I check the ppms.

EC is just Electrical Conductivity. And actually that's what your ppm meter measures anyway. It doesn't have tiny little ppm elves in the end counting how many ionic particles they detect per million water molecules. The ppm meter simply measures the EC of the liquid, converts that to ppm using one of two conversion systems, and gives you that information.

In fact, since different dissolved solids can be better or worse at conducting electricity than others there's always a margin of error since we can't be sure what the EC to ppm ratio is unless we know precisely what is in the water.

Just a fun science fact for ya, not trying to say you're wrong or anything like that.


Oh, and for those who think my earlier post was "oversensitive" or whatever, you're not the ones it was addressed to. There are people who have a creepily personal axe to grind with a certain nutrient company. They're the ones insulting the owners, employees, and customers of that company. If you're not that's great, but don't think I was addressing you specifically.

 

[ColoradoOG]

To hear some people talk you'd think Advanced Nutrients didn't do ANYTHING right, that they were just a bunch of idiots banging stuff with hammers and drooling down the front of their shirts.

Any company that makes it past a decade knows what it's doing. Any company that makes it through a recession like the one we're having DEFINITELY knows what it's doing.

I'm no expert, but every single dealing I've had with AN so far has been positive and I certainly haven't had any complaints about their tech support.

But then I also haven't decided they're all jerks and formed a lot of prejudice about how they dress. Call me crazy, I guess.

Well I can tell you that the reality is all products work great. Ive seen great results with every single nutrient line i have tried. AN, Botanicare, GH, GO, cutting edge, foxfarm,BC, cyco and well you get the idea. Ive tried almost everything with the exception of dutch master. All of them worked well.

I really want to avoid writing you a book on my feelings towards AN as i really dislike bashing on anyone/company in general. I do however want to say that AN is a very bad company for the industry. Alot of you care about the industry, AN does not care about you, they care about your money. I can backup that statement if you so desire. They are the walmart/car dealer that many of you dread to deal with. They seem flashy but its only their outer shell. There is so many fantastic companies out there that really do care about you, and your success while saving you money in the process. The thing i want to point out is take a look at your awesome cali growers(or large growers anywhere) None of them who have done this for awhile use AN. The lucas formula uses very small amounts of products and you get fantastic yields without the headaches. To those of you who use AN, please take my advice and at least try another company. There are so many good growers here on ICmag that would be more than willing to help you select one to try. Im not going to recommend one over the other, but i am recommending to at least try something else.

 

[TURBD]

I used AN with good results. Followed the online formula (med) I bought all the stuff.
My very first successful grow was with them. 2 plants under 1 light.
Built a 6 light setup next run and got over 8 elbows. Not record breaking by any standard but it worked well. Everyone loved the smell and taste. Burned clean.
I worked in a large scale nursery before as an assistant grower so I had experience mixing allot of nutes.
There's allot to mix but it is called "advanced" not "dumbass fool proof" nutrients.

 

[TribalSeeds]

I used AN with good results. Followed the online formula (med) I bought all the stuff.
My very first successful grow was with them. 2 plants under 1 light.
Built a 6 light setup next run and got over 8 elbows. Not record breaking by any standard but it worked well. Everyone loved the smell and taste. Burned clean.
I worked in a large scale nursery before as an assistant grower so I had experience mixing allot of nutes.
There's allot to mix but it is called "advanced" not "dumbass fool proof" nutrients.

How many AN products did you notice around the nursery you worked in?
They just arent economical. It doesnt make sense to use them if you are looking at ROI%

 

[TURBD]

None. It was mostly bags of raw materials. That is the most cost effective way to buy.
Most people on here are hobbie gardners and wouldn't know how or what to do with them.
I am not saying AN is the best. I don't personally know what is. I was just stating that a guy with limited weed growing experience can get over a lb per light with them. Without killing his crop.