Looking for a new way to grow - Sog vs Scrog RDWC?

[oldschoolfarmer]

Hello All,

I've completed a few successful Scrogs, as well as LST. Now I am looking to setup a more automated grow (controller, backup rez, possibly recirculating, hopefully computer controlled if possible).

My goals are: consistent harvests (every month if possible), decent yield, ability to travel without worrying about my girls, minimum maintenance/trimming.

I've heard great things about sog, but I am limited to 12 plants total so I'm wondering if it would be worth the trouble? (4 plants put into flower every month?).

Another idea would be to run RDWC Scrog, but the only problem here is all the strains would need to be identical (nute levels, etc) and the maintenance time is increased.

Currently I'm thinking an 8 bucket RDWC for flowering runs (using identical clones), then keeping 4 different plants as moms but I'd like your input.

Ideas, suggestions, etc are all appreciated. I'm just trying to do research before throwing $ around

Thanks!

 

[uninformed]

I was actually going to make a comment about this topic on your grow thread but decided not to. It's not my place to criticize the grow method you chose in your grow thread.

But seeing as how you've asked here's my two cents:


1. You and I are seem to be shooting for the same thing - maximize yield, minimize down time and do so in a limited space.

2. I, like you, have tried it all. LST, Scrog, SOG and at this time, all natural.

3. I tried all the methods in hopes of maximizing yield in a limited space and while my efforts were rewarded, they weren't as well rewarded as I had hoped.

4. The problem is that it takes a lot of time and effort to maintain scrogged and trained plants. I'm sure you can get it to become routine but that routine interferes with day to day living.

5. In essence, we try these methods in hopes of coming across some magic formula that gives us enormous yield within a limited time frame.

6. For the average grower with even a years worth of experience let alone 3-5, it seems to hold true that we tend to overthink the obvious. Most of us are a bunch of tinkerers fed up with paying and dealing with the criminal element in our society so we transition over to growing.

7. One thing we all learn - keep it simple.... stupid.

8. That is why I've come to the conclusion that given a limited space it is best to veg for at least 2 months (for a lot of us height isn't the issue when it comes to grow space) and it's best to let veg naturally. That means no FIM or topping. Just plant the maximum amount of plants you can fit into your space, let them veg two months and then throw them into flowering.

9. If you're going hydro I definitely think the ability to put more large plants into a single space will absolutely produce more yield than a few LST'd or Scrogged plants.

10. If you have any experience training a plant then going the natural route isn't so scary, space is not an issue when growing the plant straight up, as the plant can be trained and trimmed however you want.

11. Heres my example: suppose you have a space of h=6ft d=42inch l= 42in. You can scrog that space but might only be able to fit 3 plants in top. LST' and you can get 4 maybe. The whole concept behind this method is so that 1 plant produces as much as several smaller plants (like SOG but without all the plants). The problem is, that even 3 fully vegged scrogged plants won't produce as much as 9 plants in the same space allowed to veg and flower for the same period of time.

12. Point being that 3 plants is still only 3 plants. 3 Plants vegged for 2 months and scrogged will produce the same amount as 3 plants vegged for 2 months. This I've witnessed with my own eyes. The scrog method limits the space you can use (which is ironic) to produce the maximum amount of yield. I view the scrog method as being best suited for very limited grow spaces.

13. If you want to maximize the cola's, and that's why you train I still think you'd do better cutting clones off a plant 3 weeks into flowering. These plants, though they take longer to root, produce BUSHES. This method blows away any of the training methods I've seen.

14. So, in conclusion - though various training methods have their benefits they are never fully realized because the plant has never been in veg long enough (now if you could veg a scrogged plant for 4 months, we'd be talking about a completely different beast still though, compare that to 5 plants vegged over the same period of time and flowered, I still think you'd pull more off the 5 plants versus that single scrogged beast). Training requires a lot of maintenance if you're going to do it properly. Scrogging is best for a very limited space as it maximizes yield in small space (such as if you can only fit one plant in the space).

The solution to ease maintenance worry and maximize yield is to put more plants into a single space and let them grow tall. Make sure to Pick up some T-12's and place them along your wall so that the interior growth will grow as well. I genuinely feel based on my experience that this is the best method. ESPECIALLY if you're going hydro.

Now if you want a perpetual harvest you're going to need 2 flowering spaces and 1 veg space and you'd have to pull clones every 3 weeks.

The perpetual harvest is nice in theory but if you analyze the risk involved I don't think it's worth it. If instead you just grew BIG twice a year (if this is for personal needs) you wouldn't have to worry about maintaining a system.

If you're growing to earn some loot... ha.. grow outdoors!!! I'm dead serious. You harvest once a year and you could pull 10-20lbs given the average to best case scenario.

 

[Haps]

I will just chime in to say that recirculating is the way to go, I love my e&f buckets. Happy buds,
H

 

[FreezerBoy]

8. That is why I've come to the conclusion that given a limited space it is best to veg for at least 2 months (for a lot of us height isn't the issue when it comes to grow space) and it's best to let veg naturally. That means no FIM or topping. Just plant the maximum amount of plants you can fit into your space, let them veg two months and then throw them into flowering.

I've got to disagree with this one quite strongly. For the majority of indoor growers height is a great concern and unless you're running multiple thousands of watts, 2 months of veg without canopy control is a bad idea.

I tried perpetual and it was fun for as long as it took to get it running and then became a constant pain. Travel was one of the reasons. It's hard to take off for weeks at a time when the garden requires constant attention.

 

[oldschoolfarmer]

I appreciate all the input thus far. Height will be somewhat restrictive (6') but I have plenty of horizontal space if necessary. I'm basically redesigning a bedroom on the bottom floor specifically for growing; but as we all know a little pre-design thought can save a lot of time and $.

Any other ideas/suggestions?

 

[uninformed]

I've got to disagree with this one quite strongly. For the majority of indoor growers height is a great concern and unless you're running multiple thousands of watts, 2 months of veg without canopy control is a bad idea.

I tried perpetual and it was fun for as long as it took to get it running and then became a constant pain. Travel was one of the reasons. It's hard to take off for weeks at a time when the garden requires constant attention.

Well, there are a lot of us that don't have to worry about a plant being 4 feet tall but still need to grow in a confined space. I never said a "majority" - and I don't think you can conclusively make that claim either.

So the caveat being : if height isn't an issue for a plant that grows to 4 or 5 feet I recommend my way. Even if height is an issue I'd sooner go for a SOG than a scrog and veg them to half their height limit (as dictated by your needs) and then flower them.

And I second that comment on the perpetual.. it gets to be a PITA.

And if you were going to do a perpetual - bonzai a mother from seed and take cuttings. It's much easier/more stable than cloning from your current crop. Plus with a mother if you have it on a feeding system you can shut the rest of the grow down and put her somewhere until you're ready to go again.

 

[tejashidrow]

i agree with what has been said, but i am a scrog guy. I needed to grow with short head space AND have the ability to leave for a few days. Scroggin in a LITTLE laborious dureing the 2 week stretch while filling the screen, but after that its really on auto pilot, excet fror some under the screen trimming every week or so. Its just amazing what ya can get in such a small area!!1 any way you choose...GOOD LUCL!! pax

 

[BigGreen]

Well for me the rdwc scrog kicks ass. I only need at most 3 weeks veg in the big system but I will veg a week or 2 in the veg room with a 400 just to get good roots. Yields are great. The major traing time will be when they hit the screen until after the stretch is done. After that I really only see them 2 times a week but they could go a week with out topping of nutes if had to be. Its on auto top off with ro water. If you could make all that work try the rdwc it gets very fast growth and moster budz. Check mine out later tonight I,ll be postin some new pics

 

[FreezerBoy]

if height isn't an issue for a plant that grows to 4 or 5 feet I recommend my way.

If you have the wattage to penetrate 5 feet, great. Most don't.

 

[uninformed]

If you have the wattage to penetrate 5 feet, great. Most don't.

Let me just explain:

2 400 watts x 4 T-12 80 watt long tube CFL's, with this equipment you can hit the canopy from the top and penetrate deep while getting the rest from all the sides. The CFL's made a huge difference and they are cheap. I got the light ballasts for 10 bucks a piece and the CFL's for 1.99 at my local discount outlet home improvement store.

It really isn't that difficult to give a plant all the light it needs limited space or not. You simply need to be creative. And when I didn't have the extra 400 I simply used more CFL's. It made more than a marginal difference in overall yield.


Nonetheless - I understand everyone's point but it isn't as if there aren't solutions to these issues.