-
Happy Birthday ICMag! Been 20 years since Gypsy Nirvana created the forum! We are celebrating with a 4/20 Giveaway and by launching a new Patreon tier called "420club". You can read more here.
-
Important notice: ICMag's T.O.U. has been updated. Please review it here. For your convenience, it is also available in the main forum menu, under 'Quick Links"!
lookin for a mentor with bipolar
- Thread starter hermdog
- Start date
A little update since ICmag feels like home.
This whole thread started on my realization of having bipolar, the coming to god moment I had a page in was after a night where I took some otc cough syrup for a bad cough.
I don't know if it had dxm in it, but it was part alcohol.
Long story short, I don't drink alcohol, especially while manic.
For as long as I can remember I've gotten visuals if I don't get as much rest and food as I exhaust. Usually it makes patterns wavy like taking psychedelics, at night it's mandalas covering my vision.
That going on plus alcohol, stimulants, or anything that doesn't sedate the mind and my illness goes from benign to a bad trip.
Hell, I've never had a bad visual trip until that night.
Maybe I was lucky in the past and always took psychedelics in the right mood.
I actually believe mushrooms cured my depression, It's just I only realized I've been manic for a string of months, my old ways of self care and proper eating are a lot different when I'm racing instead of getting along at the comfortably depressed pace.
I'm getting a lot done and much more consistently now that I know to eat a lot more, burn my racing energy on meaningful shit and my sleep comes easy. Sleeping 8 hours a night consistently while manic is something I never figured out til now.
Some medicinal experiences from strains recently...
Tahoe OG is still my best day med, slows my thoughts enough to where I don't speak or move rapidly, but isn't dumbing in anyway.
Forum cut cookies is most definitely anti anxiety, except I'm not experiencing anxiety, the mental effect pulls my many trains of thoughts into one and focuses harder. (which is what anti-anxiety drugs do.)
Overdoing forum has given me racing trips down singular thought paths, that's also something hazes or other sativas do to me, which is why I avoid them unless I'm ready to blast off.
I feel excited to keep figuring out how to keep my mind and body running at optimum levels. to me bipolar highlights life's system of puzzles that when figured out become gifts.
Intense mania is like living day to day on meth, deep depression is very much the inward learning experience psilocybin can be.
With schizophrenia added on I know that when I clearly hear another person's voice speaking through my inner voice I've let my depression deepen too far. Mania is the same but opposite, If I don't control it, I trip out.
That fun, giggly high is my everyday manic personality, so I'm smoking on the fuelly stuff, I know just the Mexi you speak of, LostTribe. Was my fav uplifting effect, even skunk 1 turns my visuals on now, just after one bowl.
This whole thread started on my realization of having bipolar, the coming to god moment I had a page in was after a night where I took some otc cough syrup for a bad cough.
I don't know if it had dxm in it, but it was part alcohol.
Long story short, I don't drink alcohol, especially while manic.
For as long as I can remember I've gotten visuals if I don't get as much rest and food as I exhaust. Usually it makes patterns wavy like taking psychedelics, at night it's mandalas covering my vision.
That going on plus alcohol, stimulants, or anything that doesn't sedate the mind and my illness goes from benign to a bad trip.
Hell, I've never had a bad visual trip until that night.
Maybe I was lucky in the past and always took psychedelics in the right mood.
I actually believe mushrooms cured my depression, It's just I only realized I've been manic for a string of months, my old ways of self care and proper eating are a lot different when I'm racing instead of getting along at the comfortably depressed pace.
I'm getting a lot done and much more consistently now that I know to eat a lot more, burn my racing energy on meaningful shit and my sleep comes easy. Sleeping 8 hours a night consistently while manic is something I never figured out til now.
Some medicinal experiences from strains recently...
Tahoe OG is still my best day med, slows my thoughts enough to where I don't speak or move rapidly, but isn't dumbing in anyway.
Forum cut cookies is most definitely anti anxiety, except I'm not experiencing anxiety, the mental effect pulls my many trains of thoughts into one and focuses harder. (which is what anti-anxiety drugs do.)
Overdoing forum has given me racing trips down singular thought paths, that's also something hazes or other sativas do to me, which is why I avoid them unless I'm ready to blast off.
I feel excited to keep figuring out how to keep my mind and body running at optimum levels. to me bipolar highlights life's system of puzzles that when figured out become gifts.
Intense mania is like living day to day on meth, deep depression is very much the inward learning experience psilocybin can be.
With schizophrenia added on I know that when I clearly hear another person's voice speaking through my inner voice I've let my depression deepen too far. Mania is the same but opposite, If I don't control it, I trip out.
That fun, giggly high is my everyday manic personality, so I'm smoking on the fuelly stuff, I know just the Mexi you speak of, LostTribe. Was my fav uplifting effect, even skunk 1 turns my visuals on now, just after one bowl.
BakedBandit
Member
Edibles often make me sleepier than smoking. Not sure if they can/will help you with your situation. Just an idea tho
Oh, for sure edibles are good for my insomnia, they just need to be mostly indica.
The edibles I've made with more sativa have been wild 4-24hr trips.
It is very strange being a daily smoker and always avoiding sativa, can't find anyone that will pass some kush around with me, still I always keep other strains around for my patients.
I wanted to bring somethings up about the differences I believe to be true in people with the different sides of bipolar. The people that grow to be comfortable living with mania but not depression, they're often the sativa and caffeine folks, if they move onto trying to maintain their energy with hard drugs, cocaine and meth. They often times have a fast paced lifestyle, coffee, some people around and work to do, they buzz through their day until a depression comes hard enough, or they have an emotional outburst or line of poor decision making. George Carlin was one of those types, Well spoken, reasonably intelligent, but strongly opinionated, Used cannabis to focus on writing and cocaine and speed to maintain the sort of energy he performed with, then died before life expectancy because his heart gave out.
Their opposites, depressed people that can't maintain a manic life, Hendrix, Cobain, There's millions of those that are creative and articulate away from all the energy. Those two used heroin to keep their racing in check, so many others fall into painkillers.
The answer I learned was a whole lot of good food, Indica, Sleep and pacing myself.
This illness is the crash test dumby course of human emotion.
Some let ego, greed, and paranoia run amok in their thoughts, some let the emotions of their depression do them in.
I think every emotion that comes to us can be harnessed through the decisions we make, for good, bad, or indifference.
All I seek is to use my energy for good things so I can try and make it to see my older years.
The edibles I've made with more sativa have been wild 4-24hr trips.
It is very strange being a daily smoker and always avoiding sativa, can't find anyone that will pass some kush around with me, still I always keep other strains around for my patients.
I wanted to bring somethings up about the differences I believe to be true in people with the different sides of bipolar. The people that grow to be comfortable living with mania but not depression, they're often the sativa and caffeine folks, if they move onto trying to maintain their energy with hard drugs, cocaine and meth. They often times have a fast paced lifestyle, coffee, some people around and work to do, they buzz through their day until a depression comes hard enough, or they have an emotional outburst or line of poor decision making. George Carlin was one of those types, Well spoken, reasonably intelligent, but strongly opinionated, Used cannabis to focus on writing and cocaine and speed to maintain the sort of energy he performed with, then died before life expectancy because his heart gave out.
Their opposites, depressed people that can't maintain a manic life, Hendrix, Cobain, There's millions of those that are creative and articulate away from all the energy. Those two used heroin to keep their racing in check, so many others fall into painkillers.
The answer I learned was a whole lot of good food, Indica, Sleep and pacing myself.
This illness is the crash test dumby course of human emotion.
Some let ego, greed, and paranoia run amok in their thoughts, some let the emotions of their depression do them in.
I think every emotion that comes to us can be harnessed through the decisions we make, for good, bad, or indifference.
All I seek is to use my energy for good things so I can try and make it to see my older years.
Croissant
Member
hermdog,
It is great that some of the strains like Tahoe and cookies work well for you. The thing is if it is antianxiety traits in cannabis you week there are much better strains. I know it isn't available now but deep chunk is one of the best. The DJshorts blue family has some real winners in those lines also. Bubblegum big league chew bubblegum phenos are happy but not particularly anti anxiety. Also, yumboldt, although it would take a few packs and a phenol hunt. Other than those off the top of my head and from personal experience some of the high cbd strains really do the trick such as the strain harlequin although it is severely lacking in the high compared to the other mentioned strains.
Those strains might calm you when you are in acute manic state. Also, some of those meds might help when in acute manic state. The issue I have is taking those meds long term, they tend to have very serious side effects like dementia and addiction and they basically just zombify you.
I know it is expensive but really a talk therapist or analyst who is not trying to coerce or zombify you but assist you dig through your unconscious is the way to go. I advise to stay away from the cognitive behaviorists, as those traditions are essentially just coericing you to identify with neoliberal ideology and masking it in eastern spirituality ie. "mindfulness."
Without doing the work that is done in analysis of discovering patterns within your unconscious you will essentially just be stuck in a constant battle of self management to conform to an ideal you feel guilty for not living up to. That is a particular kind of hell in itself.
It is great that some of the strains like Tahoe and cookies work well for you. The thing is if it is antianxiety traits in cannabis you week there are much better strains. I know it isn't available now but deep chunk is one of the best. The DJshorts blue family has some real winners in those lines also. Bubblegum big league chew bubblegum phenos are happy but not particularly anti anxiety. Also, yumboldt, although it would take a few packs and a phenol hunt. Other than those off the top of my head and from personal experience some of the high cbd strains really do the trick such as the strain harlequin although it is severely lacking in the high compared to the other mentioned strains.
Those strains might calm you when you are in acute manic state. Also, some of those meds might help when in acute manic state. The issue I have is taking those meds long term, they tend to have very serious side effects like dementia and addiction and they basically just zombify you.
I know it is expensive but really a talk therapist or analyst who is not trying to coerce or zombify you but assist you dig through your unconscious is the way to go. I advise to stay away from the cognitive behaviorists, as those traditions are essentially just coericing you to identify with neoliberal ideology and masking it in eastern spirituality ie. "mindfulness."
Without doing the work that is done in analysis of discovering patterns within your unconscious you will essentially just be stuck in a constant battle of self management to conform to an ideal you feel guilty for not living up to. That is a particular kind of hell in itself.
I am hoping to get one of the strains I run tested so I can see what is in the profile that has satiated my mind.
on a different note
Almost all dogma and philosophy has exoteric and esoteric metaphors that illuminate the shared nature of our existence.
Obsessively thinking about the underlying patterns within them all is one of the ways my mania expresses itself, reconciling them to logic a trespass that exist beyond by disease was a positive consequence that allows me to remain rational regardless.
My disease is not diminished, just the payload.
A sick society effects one layer of our "filters" and mental illness another. Because they overlap it is easy to confuse one for the other. Mental illness presents challenges that require we step outside the paradigm of mainstream societal expectation, something that can actually transform people. Problem one still lies outside the mainstream albiet ahead of it.
on a different note
Almost all dogma and philosophy has exoteric and esoteric metaphors that illuminate the shared nature of our existence.
Obsessively thinking about the underlying patterns within them all is one of the ways my mania expresses itself, reconciling them to logic a trespass that exist beyond by disease was a positive consequence that allows me to remain rational regardless.
My disease is not diminished, just the payload.
A sick society effects one layer of our "filters" and mental illness another. Because they overlap it is easy to confuse one for the other. Mental illness presents challenges that require we step outside the paradigm of mainstream societal expectation, something that can actually transform people. Problem one still lies outside the mainstream albiet ahead of it.
Nah, I've not felt anxiety in months, paranoia I have.
You know what you're talking, Croissant.
I consider paranoia to be anxieties polar cousin.
Stuff like getting in a panic about a hovering helo over my house, even though I'm legal was my last fit of paranoia.
I'm really poor though, bud.
I am seeing doctors and other professionals but at a ridiculously slow pace because of their appointment scheduling.
Every day I understand things a little better.
When someone told me about getting my life back I thought, I can't say I've ever had control until I began to identify my abnormal behavior and emotions.
Emotion by emotion I'm honing the person I want to be and in that feel like a whole man for the first time.
That bad trip threw a wrench in my spokes but it's understood and now I know better how to avoid them.
I feel it's not figuring out patterns in the unconscious, I think it's possible we use both mindsets in our decision making. The key is, how well are you calling the shots in both your conscious and subconscious thought.
I can tell you this from experience, depression is the domain of the self reflecting back. The nagging negative thoughts in depression are inner reminders that you aren't living to your potential.
I'm not embarrassed to say I lived without friends from 18-23, in the time spent alone I carefully listened to my personal shortcomings as told to me by my subconscious.
The ego doesn't venture that deep into the mind.
This is the reason why during depression a mushroom trip feels spiritual as if you've come back with new information on how to live life, deep thought without an interfering ego is possible in a state where you think from the subconscious rather than the 'awake' mind. I believe finding and creating inner peace while depressed is clear thought, devoid of ego.
I've been to the brink of both ends and now my paths in life are brighter. I've had a handful of depressed days over the last few months, the only noticeable effects were the day just seemed longer and my mind's thoughts stop interrupting my attention span.
I wish I could hammer this point home with everybody lost in this struggle, neither depression or mania is the enemy when you figure out how to make a peaceful home for yourself in each.
You know what you're talking, Croissant.
I consider paranoia to be anxieties polar cousin.
Stuff like getting in a panic about a hovering helo over my house, even though I'm legal was my last fit of paranoia.
I'm really poor though, bud.
I am seeing doctors and other professionals but at a ridiculously slow pace because of their appointment scheduling.
Every day I understand things a little better.
When someone told me about getting my life back I thought, I can't say I've ever had control until I began to identify my abnormal behavior and emotions.
Emotion by emotion I'm honing the person I want to be and in that feel like a whole man for the first time.
That bad trip threw a wrench in my spokes but it's understood and now I know better how to avoid them.
I feel it's not figuring out patterns in the unconscious, I think it's possible we use both mindsets in our decision making. The key is, how well are you calling the shots in both your conscious and subconscious thought.
I can tell you this from experience, depression is the domain of the self reflecting back. The nagging negative thoughts in depression are inner reminders that you aren't living to your potential.
I'm not embarrassed to say I lived without friends from 18-23, in the time spent alone I carefully listened to my personal shortcomings as told to me by my subconscious.
The ego doesn't venture that deep into the mind.
This is the reason why during depression a mushroom trip feels spiritual as if you've come back with new information on how to live life, deep thought without an interfering ego is possible in a state where you think from the subconscious rather than the 'awake' mind. I believe finding and creating inner peace while depressed is clear thought, devoid of ego.
I've been to the brink of both ends and now my paths in life are brighter. I've had a handful of depressed days over the last few months, the only noticeable effects were the day just seemed longer and my mind's thoughts stop interrupting my attention span.
I wish I could hammer this point home with everybody lost in this struggle, neither depression or mania is the enemy when you figure out how to make a peaceful home for yourself in each.
Croissant
Member
herm
I am really sorry about your financial difficulties. Some therapists have a sliding scale though. Shit, grow a little extra to afford it if possible.
I just highly advise to stay away from the 'self care' 'rational' 'cognitive behavioral' and 'positive psychology' models. The ideas from those models are pretty common place in the English speaking world largely because they are consistent with neoliberal ideology and their founders wrote a bigillian self help books. The appeal of those models is they promise to work quickly and claim to be scientific but eugenics claimed to be scientific also. They essentially work by holding someone else in contempt you feel superior to I mean it works but someone somewhere else bears that burdain which I find highly unethical. It is basically prejudice with a tendency towards inverted racism fetishizing elements of eastern spirituality.
Anyway, be carefull with the self help field man it is chock full of charletans.
I am really sorry about your financial difficulties. Some therapists have a sliding scale though. Shit, grow a little extra to afford it if possible.
I just highly advise to stay away from the 'self care' 'rational' 'cognitive behavioral' and 'positive psychology' models. The ideas from those models are pretty common place in the English speaking world largely because they are consistent with neoliberal ideology and their founders wrote a bigillian self help books. The appeal of those models is they promise to work quickly and claim to be scientific but eugenics claimed to be scientific also. They essentially work by holding someone else in contempt you feel superior to I mean it works but someone somewhere else bears that burdain which I find highly unethical. It is basically prejudice with a tendency towards inverted racism fetishizing elements of eastern spirituality.
Anyway, be carefull with the self help field man it is chock full of charletans.
CBT is evidence based therapy something you promoted in another thread. It works well for people I know with specific disorders.
It is limiting for others to pigeon hole any treatment methodologies you don't fully understand.
If we where to take a "social" disease like alcoholism and look at the self help model we know two things, 1) It can be effective but 2) for a limited percentage of alcoholics
Does that mean all other alcoholics are doomed to be alcoholics? Or does that simply illustrate that specific treatments works for specific segments of the population?
Self help and self help organizations can be life saving and life transforming but just like the varying therapies and medicines, not everyone is going to get the same mileage from the same treatments.
Here is my suggestion for anyone suffering from bipolar.
Discover your baseline, the place where you can find a relative emotional baseline that mirrors the mainstream. You may choose not to sustain this place or not but it is necessary to find a baseline. I can discuss this in more detail.
Exhaust all natural methods for maintaining a baseline that will help you thrive in your environment, you may find your environment is too overwhelming for balance, this information will be very helpful to make further adjustments to your geography and lifestyle to help you find a place that helps you maintain homeostasis.
Parallels to this you need to learn to do two things:
1) disengage the thought processes and emotions (I know very difficult)
2) Set logical barometers and challenge your emotion by questioning it with logic.
You have to learn to sense the triggers that inflate your emotion before it effects thinking so much it becomes over bearing and you are unable to execute #1. You can then approach the issue using logic. You may need to have people close to you cognitive of the situation so they can help you through the process.
I have a friend who is bipolar and would have anxiety driven attacks that would make him pass out. Many people felt uncomfortable being around him but I talked to him about it, what he felt at the time and what he was thinking during the moments that led up to it.
The bottom line is, after he came to realize what thoughts and stimulus where triggering this and that it was a "misfiring" of his nervous/glandular system he was able to slowly take control over. Now it no longer happens.
Therapy, substance and people around you that care enough and understand the phenomenon well enough certainly help bridge the gap.
It is limiting for others to pigeon hole any treatment methodologies you don't fully understand.
If we where to take a "social" disease like alcoholism and look at the self help model we know two things, 1) It can be effective but 2) for a limited percentage of alcoholics
Does that mean all other alcoholics are doomed to be alcoholics? Or does that simply illustrate that specific treatments works for specific segments of the population?
Self help and self help organizations can be life saving and life transforming but just like the varying therapies and medicines, not everyone is going to get the same mileage from the same treatments.
Here is my suggestion for anyone suffering from bipolar.
Discover your baseline, the place where you can find a relative emotional baseline that mirrors the mainstream. You may choose not to sustain this place or not but it is necessary to find a baseline. I can discuss this in more detail.
Exhaust all natural methods for maintaining a baseline that will help you thrive in your environment, you may find your environment is too overwhelming for balance, this information will be very helpful to make further adjustments to your geography and lifestyle to help you find a place that helps you maintain homeostasis.
Parallels to this you need to learn to do two things:
1) disengage the thought processes and emotions (I know very difficult)
2) Set logical barometers and challenge your emotion by questioning it with logic.
You have to learn to sense the triggers that inflate your emotion before it effects thinking so much it becomes over bearing and you are unable to execute #1. You can then approach the issue using logic. You may need to have people close to you cognitive of the situation so they can help you through the process.
I have a friend who is bipolar and would have anxiety driven attacks that would make him pass out. Many people felt uncomfortable being around him but I talked to him about it, what he felt at the time and what he was thinking during the moments that led up to it.
The bottom line is, after he came to realize what thoughts and stimulus where triggering this and that it was a "misfiring" of his nervous/glandular system he was able to slowly take control over. Now it no longer happens.
Therapy, substance and people around you that care enough and understand the phenomenon well enough certainly help bridge the gap.
Your doing one of the best things you can do for yourself, talking about it with others and keeping an open mind. Sharing what's going on in your head, is one of , if not the best thing you can do. I know this from experience.
I've had lot's of counseling in my life, and the constant with all the counselors is to open up and express your feelings. Exactly what your doing in this thread.
I've had lot's of counseling in my life, and the constant with all the counselors is to open up and express your feelings. Exactly what your doing in this thread.
You're making a lot of sense, Weird.
I just want to mention to Croissant that my ideas I'm following in self help and mindfulness came from my own mind.
All my doctors and therapist have done is have me endlessly share symptoms and stories.
At nearly 30, I said it's time to take control of my own future and map out my own issues.
A few of the emotional issues I seek to smooth out are recognising when I'm getting overly angry for little reason, reeling in my patience and attention to details, cleaning up my language a bit, I have a terrible habit of using fuck or shit every sentence when overwhelmed which is embarrassing at best for a soft spoken, articulate person.
There used to be a time where a month wouldn't go by without me punching a hole in a wall somewhere in my house. It's been a year since, you can bet that's something anyone doing should feel shame over. Little by little I become more of the person I wanted to be as an adult, with my own mind deciding what's good and negative behavior and actions.
I know my fun side doesn't have to go, I just have to remember unless I'm eating good and staying hydrated then I can't go wild with friends all night. I know for a fact now I lose control of myself without enough energy to keep my mind in check.
Thank you all for being a part of my thread, I appreciate it.
I just want to mention to Croissant that my ideas I'm following in self help and mindfulness came from my own mind.
All my doctors and therapist have done is have me endlessly share symptoms and stories.
At nearly 30, I said it's time to take control of my own future and map out my own issues.
A few of the emotional issues I seek to smooth out are recognising when I'm getting overly angry for little reason, reeling in my patience and attention to details, cleaning up my language a bit, I have a terrible habit of using fuck or shit every sentence when overwhelmed which is embarrassing at best for a soft spoken, articulate person.
There used to be a time where a month wouldn't go by without me punching a hole in a wall somewhere in my house. It's been a year since, you can bet that's something anyone doing should feel shame over. Little by little I become more of the person I wanted to be as an adult, with my own mind deciding what's good and negative behavior and actions.
I know my fun side doesn't have to go, I just have to remember unless I'm eating good and staying hydrated then I can't go wild with friends all night. I know for a fact now I lose control of myself without enough energy to keep my mind in check.
Thank you all for being a part of my thread, I appreciate it.
Your doing one of the best things you can do for yourself, talking about it with others and keeping an open mind. Sharing what's going on in your head, is one of , if not the best thing you can do. I know this from experience.
I've had lot's of counseling in my life, and the constant with all the counselors is to open up and express your feelings. Exactly what your doing in this thread.
Extra emphasis on this ^^^ One of the things I was trying to convey, said much more eloquently than I
Croissant
Member
weird,
dude, I have read Aron Becks foundational CBT text as well as Albert Ellis's cofounder of CBT and its forerunner REBT. This isn't something I "know nothing about." You see you assumed I know nothing about it and am being 'irrational.' That sir is contempt. That is what I am saying is in those models the contempt for the other is built in to its foundations.
There are damn good therapists out there that will list cbt but mainly because they feel obliged to. The really good ones will be able to see that the cognitive behavioral model is itself abusive. The cognitive behavioral model appeals to those narcissistically inclined as that is what it promotes as its solution is an autonomous ego state similiarly to that promoted by Ayn Rand. Cbt is a technology of oppression in the vein of neoliberal ideology.
anyways if herm can't get into therapy its a moot point. I want to remind you though that you can find sliding scale services.
Like mentioned this is something to be talked out. Sadly, in all honesty this forum and internet forums in general are not a very good place to do that. The type of listening that is required without coercion or providing you with self management techniques is difficult to find outside of a professional setting. That sadly, is just the truth.
dude, I have read Aron Becks foundational CBT text as well as Albert Ellis's cofounder of CBT and its forerunner REBT. This isn't something I "know nothing about." You see you assumed I know nothing about it and am being 'irrational.' That sir is contempt. That is what I am saying is in those models the contempt for the other is built in to its foundations.
There are damn good therapists out there that will list cbt but mainly because they feel obliged to. The really good ones will be able to see that the cognitive behavioral model is itself abusive. The cognitive behavioral model appeals to those narcissistically inclined as that is what it promotes as its solution is an autonomous ego state similiarly to that promoted by Ayn Rand. Cbt is a technology of oppression in the vein of neoliberal ideology.
anyways if herm can't get into therapy its a moot point. I want to remind you though that you can find sliding scale services.
Like mentioned this is something to be talked out. Sadly, in all honesty this forum and internet forums in general are not a very good place to do that. The type of listening that is required without coercion or providing you with self management techniques is difficult to find outside of a professional setting. That sadly, is just the truth.
Last edited:
I haven't learned any of this from a book, I had three ER visits last year because of poor decision making. It's clear to me that they were all avoidable with better self control.
It sounds like to me, Croissant you parrot much of what your professionals relay to you.
I don't care what all the symbolism I see means to a PhD, I'd rather just avoid it by not letting my mind become weak with too much depression or mania. I don't shame any of my emotions I only seek to better harness them.
I only have a GP and the lowest level version of a councilor, they don't go down any of the roads either you or I discuss.
My observations and own ideas on critical thinking are my own.
Argue the merits of the ideas or don't, I'm not aware or versed in most of what you talk about, Croissant.
It sounds like to me, Croissant you parrot much of what your professionals relay to you.
I don't care what all the symbolism I see means to a PhD, I'd rather just avoid it by not letting my mind become weak with too much depression or mania. I don't shame any of my emotions I only seek to better harness them.
I only have a GP and the lowest level version of a councilor, they don't go down any of the roads either you or I discuss.
My observations and own ideas on critical thinking are my own.
Argue the merits of the ideas or don't, I'm not aware or versed in most of what you talk about, Croissant.
Croissant
Member
hermdog, actually no. I picked up on it from watching cinema and studying mythology. Mainly though it has come to me in visions that conform to Jungian archetypes and I later saw was thoroughly explored in the symbolism of psychoanalysis. The tend to happen when I have periods of insomnia or sleep paralysis when I start dreaming while I am still awake. Which I am sure you are aware tends to be incredibly overwhelming and of the nightmare variety.
anyway, I already warned you about how the absence of doubt of a psychotic would be attractive when you are looking for someone to empower you as they assume the role of expert.
anyway here is a little video that might shine some light on the 'self mastery' 'wellness syndrome' that plagues society.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymhmngXZ0mc
The Presenter who gives the introductions Renta Selcalc is a psychoanalyst, professor, author and social critic. She has some other good videos and books as well. In one of her other viedeos on youtube titled 'Passion for ignorance' she talks at length about how our ego doesn't want to actually confront what ever it is that bothers us and our symptoms are actually the origins of the trauma trying to be reconciled as our ego avoids it.
heres passion for ignorance. https://youtu.be/Ae67cqJq7fA
I will put it this way lets say the neighbor above you plays their music very loud and it keeps you from sleeping and gives you headaches. It would be like going to your neighbor and asking them to keep the volume lower and off by 9pm. The cognitive behavioral approach would be like them telling you that the music isn't the problem it is only our perception of the music that is the problem and your bad attitude, 'whining' and failure to accept the reality of them not turning the music down. That is right the cofounder of CBT, Albert Ellis considers it nothing more than "high class whining."
that's what I mean by passion for ignorance if we were to accept that and just tell ourselves the music is not bothering us what we are doing is just avoiding the source of what is bothering you and identifying with an imagined narcissistic superman that is not phased by blaring music when trying to sleep. The problem as it is put forth by cbt is thinking about what is bothering us and advocates "not thinking," then imagining oneself as this logical superman. That is precisely how narcissism functions to avoid confronting narcissistic wounds to the ego.
This is the real issue our ego doesn't want to confront the problem it wants to pretend it did by outthinking what is actually bothering us and becoming dismissive of the part of us that is suffering. This inevitably leads to unconsciously projecting ones pain that has been disavowed onto others while we relate to others in pain how we relate to our pain. If we are dismissive of our pain we will be dismissive of others in pain unless they become dismissive of theirs.
to quote Carl jung "one must confront their shadow lest they project it onto others."
anyway, I already warned you about how the absence of doubt of a psychotic would be attractive when you are looking for someone to empower you as they assume the role of expert.
anyway here is a little video that might shine some light on the 'self mastery' 'wellness syndrome' that plagues society.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymhmngXZ0mc
The Presenter who gives the introductions Renta Selcalc is a psychoanalyst, professor, author and social critic. She has some other good videos and books as well. In one of her other viedeos on youtube titled 'Passion for ignorance' she talks at length about how our ego doesn't want to actually confront what ever it is that bothers us and our symptoms are actually the origins of the trauma trying to be reconciled as our ego avoids it.
heres passion for ignorance. https://youtu.be/Ae67cqJq7fA
I will put it this way lets say the neighbor above you plays their music very loud and it keeps you from sleeping and gives you headaches. It would be like going to your neighbor and asking them to keep the volume lower and off by 9pm. The cognitive behavioral approach would be like them telling you that the music isn't the problem it is only our perception of the music that is the problem and your bad attitude, 'whining' and failure to accept the reality of them not turning the music down. That is right the cofounder of CBT, Albert Ellis considers it nothing more than "high class whining."
that's what I mean by passion for ignorance if we were to accept that and just tell ourselves the music is not bothering us what we are doing is just avoiding the source of what is bothering you and identifying with an imagined narcissistic superman that is not phased by blaring music when trying to sleep. The problem as it is put forth by cbt is thinking about what is bothering us and advocates "not thinking," then imagining oneself as this logical superman. That is precisely how narcissism functions to avoid confronting narcissistic wounds to the ego.
This is the real issue our ego doesn't want to confront the problem it wants to pretend it did by outthinking what is actually bothering us and becoming dismissive of the part of us that is suffering. This inevitably leads to unconsciously projecting ones pain that has been disavowed onto others while we relate to others in pain how we relate to our pain. If we are dismissive of our pain we will be dismissive of others in pain unless they become dismissive of theirs.
to quote Carl jung "one must confront their shadow lest they project it onto others."
Last edited:
CoCoSativas
Active member
Im really lost where this thread is going and about...
Reading and studying even at the most intense and granular levels do not impart the data one gets from real world application.
I know mentally ill people that greatly benefit from it, you cannot remove the reality the experience from the practical application thereof.
You are like many of the growers here who link that gathering 2nd hand information trumps collecting it first hand.
It does not, they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but a ego driven cognitive bias makes certain people project it as such.
Someone with an education and cognitive bias is trying to educate the mentally ill on his theory of everything. I get it, but I don't whole heartily agree with it all.
My qualifications on the mater are not only was I diagnosed in the single digits with bipolar, it as well as schizophrenia exist on both sides of my family. My father, a diagnosed schizophrenic and child to a surgeon committed suicide as well as two first cousins on the same side of the family (his nephews). He was very successful there three generations of practicing surgeons, doctors and even a psychiatrist so please don't make an assumption lack of resource or genetic wherewithal is at play. Genius, creativity and mental illness all overlap (I can present the science on that one).
This is tip of the iceberg when ti comes to the mental illness in my family and myself. I was institutionalized for a year by the time I was 15 and was given a "6 months until institutionalization or suicide diagnosis. I could get into pages of details on what I suffered both as far as mental illness and abuse at the hands of the mentally ill, but that is not hte story here.
The story is that after experiencing decades of therapies and medicines and then decades at self medication coupled with therapeutic and spiritual practices I am 15 years free of pharmaceutical psych meds (in my case the side effects where worse than the benefits) and enjoy a full life, husband, father, pay my bills, pay my taxes, no govt assistance. Best part is I actively contribute in the rehabilitation of friends and family whose lives are transforming in parallel.
I can flood the forums with data that proves the physiological differences of the mentally ill.
Then the argument becomes, this is why stigmatizing how they perceive the world from another lens (non mentally ills) is simple prejudice and never fully accommodates the people suffering from mental illness. Just because you can't see mental illness doesn't mean the reality of it doesn't exist.
My bipolar still happens, it just doesn't dictate my actions because I have come to understand it. I have not bested my biology with my third eye, wish I got off that easy. To be honest one of the things that keeps many people at arms length in my life is the "he's doesn't seem mentally ill" mindset I get because people think smart means biologically functionally.
Here are some more realities about mental illness.
There are physiological illnesses, some of which you are born with, some are created after you are born. They manifest in ways that can be measured in physiological means.
Then there are some that are behavioral, think pavlovian, for which our family, school, and other societal conditions impact.
There are also illnesses that are environment reliant, someone who grows up in a perfect family, is perfectly well balanced and drinks 1 drink of alcohol and loses their life to addiction is facilitated by genetic underpinnings and is why some ethnics suffer disproportionately from alcoholism ( e.g.Native Americans)
Let us add to this that certain societal constructs can elicit biological illnesses that would otherwise not be present. Basically, many mental illnesses are phenotype waiting for the right environment to express them self.
If you do not understand the differences you might find yourself a chasing the tail of your own illness. Not fun.
While the combinations seem overwhelming they are less overwhelming than offering a simple metric in which you can address each one. This is why for people who suffer biological bipolar finding a baseline is important.
Proac for example had a profound effect on my own depression thus letting me come to understand how most people where feeling, putting everything in context for me.
I didn't love the blunting of my creativity and eventually I replaced it with weed (after using them side by side) but without seeing how other people felt it was impossible for me to understand that the activity and depth of my emotion was unusual and expecting connections on that level was not reasonable. I didn't have to change me any longer to find a way to fit into my own skin and I no longer had to anguish the fact I was different.
While I am different I an not unique, and when I learn to make my understanding of the world digestible from the angle I see it at, I find that I am not the only one that shares the same views. In fact sometimes my over active thoughts and empathy inspire me to put words to what many people think but have a hard time saying.
There is value to be found in our humanity no matter how different, like OG said have to have an open mind and be able to talk about things from an honest persepctive
There are physiological illnesses, some of which you are born with, some are created after you are born. They manifest in ways that can be measured in physiological means.
Then there are some that are behavioral, think pavlovian, for which our family, school, and other societal conditions impact.
There are also illnesses that are environment reliant, someone who grows up in a perfect family, is perfectly well balanced and drinks 1 drink of alcohol and loses their life to addiction is facilitated by genetic underpinnings and is why some ethnics suffer disproportionately from alcoholism ( e.g.Native Americans)
Let us add to this that certain societal constructs can elicit biological illnesses that would otherwise not be present. Basically, many mental illnesses are phenotype waiting for the right environment to express them self.
If you do not understand the differences you might find yourself a chasing the tail of your own illness. Not fun.
While the combinations seem overwhelming they are less overwhelming than offering a simple metric in which you can address each one. This is why for people who suffer biological bipolar finding a baseline is important.
Proac for example had a profound effect on my own depression thus letting me come to understand how most people where feeling, putting everything in context for me.
I didn't love the blunting of my creativity and eventually I replaced it with weed (after using them side by side) but without seeing how other people felt it was impossible for me to understand that the activity and depth of my emotion was unusual and expecting connections on that level was not reasonable. I didn't have to change me any longer to find a way to fit into my own skin and I no longer had to anguish the fact I was different.
While I am different I an not unique, and when I learn to make my understanding of the world digestible from the angle I see it at, I find that I am not the only one that shares the same views. In fact sometimes my over active thoughts and empathy inspire me to put words to what many people think but have a hard time saying.
There is value to be found in our humanity no matter how different, like OG said have to have an open mind and be able to talk about things from an honest persepctive
