Limonene legality

[hash head]

Would Limonene be considered a solvent when used to concentrate cannabis?

Are terpenes such as Limonene that are a component of cannabis considered a hydrocarbon solvent?

considering how Limonene Hash oil would be considered in Oregon law..

from the olcc:

Whether your product is an extract or a concentrate depends on how it was manufactured. It’s a
concentrate if the process to make the product:
- Is mechanical;
- Uses carbon dioxide without any high heat or pressure; or
- Uses water, vegetable glycerin, vegetable oils, animal fats, isopropyl alcohol or ethanol.

It’s an extract if the process:
- Uses carbon dioxide with high heat or pressure; or
- Uses a hydrocarbon‐based solvent like butane, hexane or propane.

 

[troutman]

D-Limonene is not illegal and you can buy it online.

It has many uses like cleaning, health and it's not only used for Cannabis.

The Benefits of D-Limonene

 

[hash head]

When using Limonene to concentrate THC what do you suppose the legalities are would it be considered the same as ethanol, more restrtictions or less?

 

[WaterFarmFan]

What would be the benefits of using this as a solvent? It appears to have a boiling point of 176C (349F), which is much higher than alcohol. Unless you buy a 55 gallon drum, it also seems to be anywhere from 4x-10x the price of ethanol as well. What are you trying to do?

 

[jswick93]

It's considered a concentrate in Oregon. Same licensing as making other concentrates.

 

[Smoke342]

I know if you are trying to buy terps in bulk they have some kind of chemical law where they can't sell to individuals has to be a buisness and they want to make sure you are following safe handling procedures, mostly just covering their butts.

I know they sell limonene in pill form at vitamin cottage but not sure of the legality of other terpenes as they do fall under dangerous flammable chemicals. Ones I've bought on amazon had nasty warning labels as did the bulk.

 

[Gry]

When ever I see a post of a similar nature, I curse lewis powell.

 

[PDX Dopesmoker]

It's considered a concentrate in Oregon. Same licensing as making other concentrates.

hash head's quote if from an OLCC informational website, here is the relevant text from https://www.oregon.gov/olcc/marijuana/Documents/Rules/Division_25_2017_BillTechnicalPackage.pdf

(6) “Cannabinoid concentrate” means a substance obtained by separating cannabinoids from marijuana by:
(a) A mechanical extraction process;
(b) A chemical extraction process using a nonhydrocarbon-based or other solvent, such as water, vegetable glycerin, vegetable oils, animal fats, isopropyl alcohol or ethanol; or (c) A chemical extraction process using the solvent carbon dioxide, provided that the process does not involve the use of high heat or pressure; or
(d) Any other process identified by the Commission, in consultation with the Authority, by rule.

(8) “Cannabinoid extract” means a substance obtained by separating cannabinoids from marijuana by:
(a) A chemical extraction process using a hydrocarbon-based solvent, such as butane, hexane or propane;
(b) A chemical extraction process using the solvent carbon dioxide, if the process uses high heat or pressure; or
(c) Any other process identified by the Commission, in consultation with the authority, by rule.

Limonene is a hydrocarbon, but I bet they would categorize it with ethanol because limonene isn't made out of crude oil. Predicting OLCC logic could be an amusing topic for wagering.

LHO is something interesting enough to actually get me think about going into a weed store if it were for sale. Since there is no maximum residual level for that solvent stated in the regs it doesn't really make a difference how expensive limonene is or how difficult it is to purge. If you can eventually resell the whole 55g drum as PPMs for $15/g that'd be a nice trick.
There might be better or cheaper options for terpene solvents though, I know there is a commercial market for A-pinene which has a lower boiling point. Is isoprene expensive?
I had one plant this summer that was really diesel smelling, but nearly flavorless and odorless once dried. Whatever was in that plant evaporates cleanly for sure and I don't want the rest of those seeds.

Has anyone here tried the LHO Horatio Delbert was selling in Vancouver?
Hopefully SkyHighLer or one of the other folks with broad knowledge about various solvent options will chime in here, its an interesting topic and I actually know almost nothing about it.

 

[Gry]

Were it not for the likes of Powell, chemistry would still be a part of a standard education.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Would Limonene be considered a solvent when used to concentrate cannabis?

Yes.

Are terpenes such as Limonene that are a component of cannabis considered a hydrocarbon solvent?

In whose vernacular? It is a hydrocarbon and is a solvent, but not refined from crude oil.

considering how Limonene Hash oil would be considered in Oregon law..

from the olcc:

Oregon OLCC wants money. My guess is that they would treat it like an ethanol extraction.

Horatio actually won a cup for "other" with his limonene extract. Because of its high boiling point, he had to remove it as an azeotrope with water.

I asked him to share his technique on this forum, but he declined and hasn't been around for awhile, nor have I seen his posts on other forums of late.

 

[hash head]

Also because it is non polar it likely pulls less chlorophyll than when ethanol is used which would be a bonus.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Also because it is non polar it likely pulls less chlorophyll than when ethanol is used which would be a bonus.

About a dielectric constant of 2.3 @68F vis a vis 24.3 @ 77F for Ethanol, with 15 the ostensible line between non polar and polar.

The dielectric constant of Ethanol drops steadily with temperature. Check out the attached graph and subtract 273.15 to convert to centigrade. Multiply centigrade by 1.8 and add 32 to get Fahrenheit:

 

[hash head]

To create the azeotrope effect water needs to be added to the evaporation flask.. a rotovap or mantle can be used but the chiller and collection flask need to be kept cold with dry ice as well as a cold trap to keep the limonene liquid under vacuum and to prevent it from entering the vacuum pump.

 

[WaterFarmFan]

This actually sounds quite interesting. What about the terps? Could they be collected via short path in the first stage and then added back after? How are the water and extract separated after limonene evaporation?

 

[SkyHighLer]

Auto-Ignition:

237 deg C
IPCS, CEC; International Chemical Safety Card on d-Limonene. (April 2005). Available from, as of February 3, 2006: https://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0918.htm
from HSDB
Source: HSDB
Record Name: (D)-LIMONENE
URL: https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/r?dbs+hsdb:@term+@rn+@rel+5989-27-5

237°C
from ILO-ICSC
Source: ILO-ICSC
Record Name: D-LIMONENE
URL: https://www.ilo.org/dyn/icsc/showcard.display?p_card_id=0918
Description: International Chemical Safety Cards (ICSC) are data sheets intended to provide essential safety and health information on chemicals in a clear and concise way.

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/___-Limonene#section=Auto-Ignition


Decomposition:

When heated to decomp it emits acrid smoke and fumes.
Sax, N.I. Dangerous Properties of Industrial Materials. 6th ed. New York, NY: Van Nostrand Reinhold, 1984., p. 1705
from HSDB
Source: HSDB
Record Name: (D)-LIMONENE
URL: https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/r?dbs+hsdb:@term+@rn+@rel+5989-27-5

https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/___-Limonene#section=Decomposition


It's not listed in Armarago's PURIFICATION OF LABORATORY CHEMICALS Eighth Edition, according to Horatio it should be distilled before use.


It's also not listed in Table 7-3 of Reichardt's Solvents and Solvent Effects in Organic Chemistry, so GW's take on polarity maybe all you'll find.

https://archive.org/stream/Solvents...rganic_Chemistry_Reichardt#page/n437/mode/2up

 

[WishDoctor]

don't matter anyway, it's considered an extraction in oregon and illegal.

no rec users or ommp users can make or sell extracts concentrates hash bubble hash etc unless licensed as a processor...like I am.

read the laws. welcome to the new world.

 

[WaterFarmFan]

don't matter anyway, it's considered an extraction in oregon and illegal.

no rec users or ommp users can make or sell extracts concentrates hash bubble hash etc unless licensed as a processor...like I am.

read the laws. welcome to the new world.

Do you want a cookie or a gold star?

 

[PDX Dopesmoker]

don't matter anyway, it's considered an extraction in oregon and illegal.

no rec users or ommp users can make or sell extracts concentrates hash bubble hash etc unless licensed as a processor...like I am.

read the laws. welcome to the new world.

Either you haven't been keeping up on the legal updates or I haven't. What you said was the rules a long time ago, like in 2016, it was loosened up subsequently and cardholders were permitted to operate in the concentrate category, but I haven't read the the newest ones through yet completely. I got stuck on the "producer tours" section, which seems new and potentially amusing.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Oregon OLCC wants money. My guess is that they would treat it like an ethanol extraction.

Horatio actually won a cup for "other" with his limonene extract. Because of its high boiling point, he had to remove it as an azeotrope with water.

I asked him to share his technique on this forum, but he declined and hasn't been around for awhile, nor have I seen his posts on other forums of late.

Checking in Alternative Solvents for Natural Products Extraction, by Chemat and Vian, they used a Dean-Stark apparatus to remove the Limonene as an azeotrope.

https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/dean-stark-apparatus-4196066188.html

 

[SkyHighLer]

Checking in Alternative Solvents for Natural Products Extraction, by Chemat and Vian, they used a Dean-Stark apparatus to remove the Limonene as an azeotrope.

https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/dean-stark-apparatus-4196066188.html

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