Lets Make Soil

[BAKED_BEANZ]

plant feeds of it and the smoke keeps you awake !!!lol ( in relation to what coffee grounds do post)

 

[Photosynthesis]

Hey there I've been hooked on organics ever since I started growing and I think I've learnt a lot reading through all the stickies here. It's time to make some new soil and this time I'm treading into new territory as I'm trying to make a recyclable soil for the first time. I have some questions as I'm now starting to experiment with organic growing but first off here is what I'm working with.

Base soil is
-50% peat
-20% worm castings (store bought for now until my worm bin starts producing)
-25% lava rocks (in the future I hope to switch to rice hulls but for now I'm still trying to source those and I'm trying to get away from using perlite as I don't like how it floats to the top)
-5% Biochar (this may be less as I just used the leftover charcoal from a fire I had not too long ago but if that's the case then more lava rock would be used. I did let the charcoal soak in a compost tea with alfalfa,kelp and fish hydrolysate)

Now for amendments I have collected quite a few over the year that I have been growing and this is the part where I get a little confused as I have such a diversity that I'm not quite sure of the ratios to use but here are my thoughts.

This is per 1 cubic foot of soil.

-1/2 cup Alfalfa Meal
-1/2 cup Neem Meal 4-3-2(should this be more? Was thinking of making it 1 cup but not sure if it will add too much nitrogen. It's mainly for pest control as I have had problems with fungus gnats in the past)
-1/2 cup Fish and Crab Meal 8-5-1
-1 cup Kelp meal 1-1-2
-1 cup Bone Meal 2-14-0
-1/2 cup Granulated Rock Phosphate 0-27-0 (I read that this may not be the best mineral amendment but I need to use it up. Hoping to get azomite and glacial rock dust in the future)
-1/2 cup langbeinite 22%k-18%Mg-22%Sulfur
-1/2 cup Gypsum
-1 cup Greensand 0-1-8
-1/2 cup Diatomaceous Earth
-1/2 cup Dolomite lime (usually I use 1 cup but read that biochar acts as a liming agent so I halved it would this still work? If I need more mag I do have epsom salts I can add to the waterings but I figure the langbeinite would cover that)
-1 cup Powdered Egg Shell (for calcium I know oyster shell flower works better but I still need to acquire this)
-1 cup Humik (says its a humic acid derivative from leonardite.)

I also have Canola meal 6-3-1(I think its known as Rape Seed in the United States?) that I plan on re-amending with every second cycle or so for a different nitrogen source. I also have bat guano 4-26-1 that I use to make teas with during flower for an extra boost if the plants need it.

Does this sounds right as I looked at other peoples recipes and somewhat ball parked what I thought would be similar with what I'm using. Please let me know if I have too much or too little of something. All help is greatly appreciated.

Rice hulls take 3 years to break down. While they are breaking down they provide silica. They are my preferred aeration amendment.

Neem cake/meal is over priced, and there is no reason to add it to your mix. It will not work against pests. I don;t no why everyone says this. Coot started it, and now everyone throws it back up. Coot is not the all knowing ganja guru guys.

Greensand takes forever to break down. 1 to 2 years. Not worth fucking with in your soil mix. you will have so much potassium from your compost that there is no reason to try to add more. Get a soil test, and it will be off the charts after a few recycles.

Lose the dolomite, and add 1/2 cup of oyster shell flour instead. Up the gypsum to 1 cup, and don't fuck with the powdered egg shell. More trouble then it's worth.

Leave the canola meal out. You already will have enough nitrogen.

Honestly, what you have listed isn't to bad. Much better then what most try to do.

 

[redneck shogun]

You watch your mouth talking about coot, but yeah you're right. Coot was my favorite though and always made time for me.

 

[heady blunts]

Neem cake/meal is over priced, and there is no reason to add it to your mix. It will not work against pests. I don;t no why everyone says this.

google "neem cake pest control."

hth

beyond any potential influence on pests, it is also a broad spectrum seed meal---i like it anyway. still cheaper than hemp seed cake!

Azadirachta indica

 

[Microbeman]

But once you over do it, you pretty much have to ride it out

Ain't that the truth!

Coot is not the all knowing ganja guru guys.

Is anybody?

Or google scholar 'how does neem cake control pests without killing everything?'

 

[Photosynthesis]

The only way I would use neem cake is to make a tea, but it's a lot easier to just buy neem oil.

 

[Scrappy4]

The only way I would use neem cake is to make a tea, but it's a lot easier to just buy neem oil.

I don't know if it helps with bugs or not, but I find it a first rate amendment and as a tea ingredient.

 

[Photosynthesis]

I have tested neem cake mixed in the soil, indoors and outdoors. I have tested it top dressed, indoors and outdoors. I have even covered complete tops of pots, and around outside plants with it. It turns into this thick mass of nasty shit.

Guess what happened?

Fungus gnats lived in it, around it, on top of it, and any where they normally would. Actually the neem held moisture so in some cases it made them worse on the top dress, and neem piles. Other insects did the same thing.

I didn't even have to use "Google" to learn the non-benefits of using neem cake.

Fucking amazing!

Remember not to live your life by "studies" that you read on the innterwebs. They are an itty bitty, tiny, little snap shot of a much larger picture. They are a look into a very controlled, exact, test, which typically when applied in the real world may not happen. More than once, what I read, did not match up to what happened in real life.

If you don't believe me, watch any porn ever.

Soap box out.

 

[RustyShcklfrd]

I have tested neem cake mixed in the soil, indoors and outdoors. I have tested it top dressed, indoors and outdoors. I have even covered complete tops of pots, and around outside plants with it. It turns into this thick mass of nasty shit.

Guess what happened?

Fungus gnats lived in it, around it, on top of it, and any where they normally would. Actually the neem held moisture so in some cases it made them worse on the top dress, and neem piles. Other insects did the same thing.

I didn't even have to use "Google" to learn the non-benefits of using neem cake.

Fucking amazing!

Remember not to live your life by "studies" that you read on the innterwebs. They are an itty bitty, tiny, little snap shot of a much larger picture. They are a look into a very controlled, exact, test, which typically when applied in the real world may not happen. More than once, what I read, did not match up to what happened in real life.

If you don't believe me, watch any porn ever.

Soap box out.

I have to second this. Ive had fungus gnats living and breeding in a topdressing of castings and neem cake per coots suggestion. I would say "limited" success with neem oil.

 

[Photosynthesis]

I have to second this. Ive had fungus gnats living and breeding in a topdressing of castings and neem cake per coots suggestion. I would say "limited" success with neem oil.

It can't be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Coot said it would work, and you can "Google" studies that say it will work. It must work then.

I'm just kidding by the way. Not about it not working. It doesn't work. It is a waste of money unless you live in India.

 

[IndicaFan84]

I personally am on my 1st grow and regular dirt with worm castings every water and these things are doing fantastic. All organic.

 

[Siris]

Well it's great to hear I'm on the right track. I got use to making teas when I was growing before not so much the top dressings but this time around I've only been top dressing everything and it seems to be working out great so far. How much do you guys usually top dress? So far I've added about 1/2 tablespoon per gallon of neem, alfalfa meal and diatomaceous earth to he current batch I had. Not sure if that's too little or too much but the plants seem to be fine so far.

I guess the greensand will have to go to the new veggie garden out back it'll probably do a lot more good there anyways. I hoping to go to the store this weekend and some more goodies for the soil and bti for gnats. I've been putting off making the soil for a for a bit too long.

 

[Photosynthesis]

Use 2"-3" of chunky perlite on top of your soil, and you won't have any gnats. I use the chunky so it is easier to clean and reuse. Ever since I started using it I have not had any gnat problems. So simple, but so effective. I never had any luck with biological controls. Nematodes can work well if you can get them alive. The perlite is cheap and reusable though.

The greensand would be way better suited for the outdoors.

 

[Siris]

Yeah I just got some perlite a couple of days ago and put some down but so far the little buggers are still flying around. I'm sure within a weeks time I'll notice a difference. I also put down some yellow sticky traps so I think they'll be gone sooner than later.

 

[Photosynthesis]

You gotta make sure that you have a minimum of 2" of perlite down. 3" is better. It should work within a week or so. You may still see a stray, but nothing major at all.

 

[VortexPower420]

Not saying anyone is wrong but wouldn't a mulch consist f leaves or straw be better to keep the top of the soil alive. The soil needs something to eat to.

My advice on fungus gnats is dig up some humus and fallen debris from a couple of places in the woods. There should be a diversity of other creatures that will compete with the gnats.
My mulch is always wet and gnats come and go but I haven't seen any in recent memory.

I know they are annoying and I can see in a chem grow how they could eat root s but as far as I know they eat fungus and normaly don't affect the plant untill the get bad.

Diversity of microbes is key!!!

Timbuktu

 

[RustyShcklfrd]

Not saying anyone is wrong but wouldn't a mulch consist f leaves or straw be better to keep the top of the soil alive. The soil needs something to eat to.

My advice on fungus nats is dig up some humus and fallen debris from a couple of places in the woods. There should be a diversity of other creatures that will compete with the knats.
My mulch is always wet and nats come and go but I haven't seen any in recent memory.

I know they are annoying and I can see in a chem grow how they could ear root s but as far as I know they eat fungus and normaly don't affect the plant untill the get bad.

Diversity of microbes is key!!!

Timbuktu

IMO your right on, that mylch is ground zero for all the microbial goodies, and the mycelium growing in that mulch is key in buffering inconsistencies in your water.

 

[Photosynthesis]

I've used leaf litter, straw, hay, perlite, lava rocks, wood chips (used this for years), etc., but I have settled on perlite to keep the gnats away. All of the others didn't work as well. Depends on your environment, your style of grow, etc..

I had specked out a very large warehouse that I was going to help with, and we were going to use rubber mulch. As long as the top of the soil is moist you are good to go. A one time purchase, reusable, and durable. All of the things needed when you are growing under Hundreds of lights.

My least favorite is straw, hay, etc... It seems to be all the rave with the no-til guys. I think it's annoying, kind of nasty, and it seemed to always promote unbeneficial insects. Great to use outside though.

To each their own. I have noticed I have started to settle into a groove, and the growing world is going a different direction then I have settled in. Suppose I am getting older.

 

[Siris]

I've tried leaf litter as a mulch before and it seemed to work out well but I still had a fungus gnat problem so I've decided this time around getting rid of the fungus gnats takes priority so if that means sacrificing the leaf mulch for perlite then so be it. Once I get the fungus gnats under control then maybe I'll reconsider going back to a leaf mulch or even try out a living mulch if or when I transition into no till.

I did some shopping today and grabbed some glacial rock dust and mosquito dunks so the new soil will be made tomorrow. The new recipe is looking like this, it's changed quite a bit after reading what you all had to say.

Per 1 Cubic foot

-1/2 cup Neem Meal 4-3-2
-1/2 cup Fish and Crab Meal 8-5-1
-1 cup Kelp meal 1-1-2
-1/2 cup Bone Meal 2-14-0
-1/2 cup Glacial rock dust
-1 cup Gypsum
-1/2 cup Diatomaceous Earth
-1/2 cup Dolomite lime
-1 cup Humik (says its a humic acid derivative from leonardite.)

So I've taken out the alfalfa and decided that I would just make teas with it, probably make an alfalfa tea halfway through veg and during the first week of flower. My thinking with adding it to the soil was because of the triacontanol and it being a growth stimulant although I'm sure if there's a lot in it to make a difference but I'm sure the teas are the same right?

I've cut the bone meal(will try and source fishbone meal in the future when the bone meal is gone) in half per suggestion from here, I do plan on doing a bat guano tea halfway through flower for an extra boost. Also as suggested I've taken out the k-mag and will probably add it to the guano tea that I feed halfway through flower .The granulated rock phosphate just has been taken out only because I don't like knowing there could be a chance of it containing radiation even if it is a small possibility. I've replaced the greensand with glacial rock dust. Also I've upped the gypsum to 1 cup but since I've removed the rock phosphate and reduced the bone meal to half is this still necessary?

The powdered egg shells I will give to the worms in my bin. So far I haven't found oyster shell or crab shell so I have kept the dolomite although I do know it's not the best thing to use. Does anyone know where to get the oyster shell or crab shell in Canada? It seems to be hard to come by or maybe I just don't know where to look.

Also for future reference when using rice hulls for aeration and knowing that break down how much would I have to add during the re-amendment to compensate for there breakdown? Photosynthesis you say you use them so do you add them back in after every cycle or every second or third?

I still need to find them but I do think that's the route I want to go or at least cut it half with lava rock half with rice hulls.

Also I just gotta say I'm stoked that all you guys are helping me out. I've been a lurker in this forum for a long time and have read the major stickies where you all contributed a huge amount of info so its pretty cool to be getting input from you all. The knowledge here is amazing

Oh also how much crushed up mosquito dunks do you guys use and is it better to add it to the soil or top dress with it?

 

[Siris]

I forgot to mention I also have some endomycorrhizal fungi and Effective Microorganisms coming. First time using these items so I'm pretty excited for them to arrive. Does anyone use EMs to water with or is it just something I should use for the bokashi bin?