Legalize Marijuana-California Initiatives

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Although regulating will open a can of worms I think ppl will not be prepared for ultimately I think this is the only way to make this fair for all..My problem with this is they are already saying here that they are going to take growing cannabis out of the hands of the individual and put it in the hands of big pharm .. No more smoking cannabis and cannabis in pill form only just like the docs try to give it to you now when you see them lol.. Nah were going to hate this new world order lol peace out Headband707

Big pharma is already growing and producing pot in pill form, they dont understand the entirety of it and it doesnt work... so what will change if it is legal? Pharma makes so much damn money from the pills they already produce, what makes you think they will jump the schedule I bandwagon to make a couple million dollars? Not to mention that marijuana will still be illegal at a federal level, which will keep them from getting in the market. However if they did, that means they will bring all the lobbying power with them which would probably take power away from the average joes like us, but would make it more likely to get marijuana legal at a federal level.

More people are growing and smoking than ever. if your analogy held any weight, then why are people allowed to drink alcohol and smoke ciggarettes. Why arent they in pill form?

This is taking it away from the whole medical thing so that people can smoke weed without having to pay some bullshit quack doctor for the right to do so and then we wont have to listen to all these fucking naysayers talking about how mmj is a sham and people just want to get high. It will let medical marijuana be studied more carefully then people much smarter then us to better help serve the patients who truly rely on medical cannabis for relief.

The fact is were going to see the same fight from the same people. Dont expect any change. Dispensary owners, growers and dealers will be against it along side with the anti drug zealots, the christian facism society, the team of we know whats good for you better than you do nanny moms and the most ignorant and close minded of the elderly.

 

[igrowone]

i was mulling over the 99/50 rule - enforcement of that would be interesting
if this passes, you'd have to be pretty blatant to run afoul of this rule

 

[Bullfrog44]

i was mulling over the 99/50 rule - enforcement of that would be interesting
if this passes, you'd have to be pretty blatant to run afoul of this rule

Good.

 

[DoobieDuck]

does that mean 99 plants a year? EDIT: I also just read the link you posted DD from Steve Kubby, and what he says about it confuses me more...
so what does that mean?

Corpse I wish I could explain it all- but I can't. As time goes on it will be discussed in detail, as we are starting to do here now, and maybe we'll all be onboard. As I see explanations across the web I'll try and add those here...DD

 

[headband 707]

Headband thanks for commenting, but buddy I went back and read the initiative twice after reading your take on this and I do not see what you are refering to anywhere in it. Could you point out that part for me..many thanks DD

Well I'm not sure if they will get away with it here but they are already saying they will not hand out licences to grow next year here in Canada they want to stop allowing ppl to grow their own cannabis and start to have the gov grow cannabis with pharacutical companies. Here in Canada if you go to a doctor they have cannabis is pill form and all the doctors try to push the pill form and if you don't take this pill form they think your a junkie and they want nothing to do with you. Doctors here in Canada do not prescibe cannabis which is why there are only 5000 licences in ALL of Canada!...It has always been about the Ca$h to these assholes... they think everyone is out to make a buck in the underground...lol....Some of them are..
I'm hoping ppl pay close attention here because this has been the feds plan the whole time. This is why they keep screamimg it's not legal and they don't recongize it . If this gets beatin in courts they can be stopped if not they can go on and keep playing with ppl's lives just like they do here.
Unfortunately somehow Canada is in bed with the USA and I'm not exactly sure how this whole sorted bullshit works I just see that when the US makes a move Canada is not far behind.
I don't know how the US's DEA got here in Canada and around the world for that matter but for whatever reason our gov is listening to them and this shit needs to stop. I know I have had enough of this and they need ppl to prove them wrong once and for all.
You guys in the US give out licences for many reasons while here in Canada you can't get it even if you are sick.
I couldn't be happier for Cali and the way things have turned out there and the way ppl act about cannabis is amazing and the way it should be. Everyone needs to take a note of what is going on in Cali and do the same. The world would be a better place peace out Headband707

Oh yeah this is a ca$h grab and your not going to get around this one lol

 

[HighDesertJoe]

Well it's about time.
I'll vote again

 

[guest59452]

DO IT CALI

 

[DoobieDuck]

Headband707.. I understand your frustration with what's going on in Canada for you, but please buddy, this thread is about a California initiative and working on this together so we don't end up with a system like yours. There's a lot of peeps putting in a huge effort here. I know big pharma is trying to strangle us as well, but If we get it right, others may follow, it may even spread to you our freinds in Canada. So please, let's try to work together and stay on topic, thanks and be well, DD

 

[Grendelkhan]

Hate to rain on anyone but the same thing that applies to this one applies to the last one. The federals still have control over the states. This means that even if it passes that the federals will block it. Plus it appears as though the current people in charge have started to move away from the legalization aspects of it and are moving back to busting people. The government is trying very hard to convince Mexico and others that drugs are bad ummmmk. So we can't have our biggest state legalizing MJ now can we. At a state level you have the individual county's being allow to enforce MMJ laws as they see fit. If you want an example of it take a look at San Diego or some of the other county's that don't care if your legal or not. (Please don't get mad at me as I am just pointing out how I think that the government is viewing MJ at this time.)

 

[kmk420kali]

Hate to rain on anyone but the same thing that applies to this one applies to the last one. The federals still have control over the states. This means that even if it passes that the federals will block it. Plus it appears as though the current people in charge have started to move away from the legalization aspects of it and are moving back to busting people. The government is trying very hard to convince Mexico and others that drugs are bad ummmmk. So we can't have our biggest state legalizing MJ now can we. At a state level you have the individual county's being allow to enforce MMJ laws as they see fit. If you want an example of it take a look at San Diego or some of the other county's that don't care if your legal or not. (Please don't get mad at me as I am just pointing out how I think that the government is viewing MJ at this time.)

Not mad at all...but I will comment on this--
Firstly, the Feds have not been able to block anything-- Sure, they bust some ppl...but compared to what is going on here, it is very few-- If they had the power to actually block anything...we would not have MMJ here at all--
The Counties can place some rules concerning it...but in the end, if you are within State Laws...you can beat it in Court--
I know all that is a pain in the ass...to have to go through the trouble and expense of fighting something in Court...but it is WAY better than what happens in most States--
Legalization will not take this Country all at once...it will take steps, and it will be done with a lot of ppl getting fucked in the process...but I am certain that it will all work out eventually-- We just need to keep fighting for it--

 

[ijim]

People when thinking about legalization of Cannabis think in past and present terms of use and supply not of future use. The future for commercial sales is in concentrates, edibles and drinks. Commercial manufacturers will not want to deal with the same regulations as tobacco. Smoke is smoke is smoke. Commercial manufacturers will have to deal with potency and quality issues. Every product they sell will have to be uniform in potency and void of molds and allergens. Thus selling flowers from Cannabis will not be a efficient and viable method of commercial commerce. Thus there will always be a market for the Mom and Pop products. And room in the backyard for a garden. The ones that legalization will effect the most are the criminals and organized gangs. They will be the real losers. The dispensaries will still be needed while manufacturers iron out the many issues with state and federal laws. If California can work out a viable and sensible manufacturing, distribution, permitting and taxation programs the other states will follow suit. Just like they have with Medical Cannabis. But the initial boost for the state will be enormous. Say the state charges $50 for a permit to grow at home. Every stoner in the state will have to have a permit hanging on their wall whether they plan to grow or not. That would be a hell of a boost to state and local treasuries and make them eager partners in the Cannabis industry. Federal legislature's will not be blind to this new found wealth and we all know that money is the only thing that they can see. Legalization on a federal level will not be far behind. Normalization of Cannabis can only be done if it is commercially viable and profitable to local, state and the federal governments. Mom and Pop will always be there with good ole smoke able herb.

 

[Grendelkhan]

Kali your correct in that it goes in small steps. I have already been martyred in the 90's and would not like to go thru that again. Its rough to go up against the state. They have unlimited resources and you can not apply logic to them. I wish all of you freedom fighters luck but I for one am trying my best to be a quite little cog in the machine.

 

[Tripp Inmiasov]

The prohibition of cannabis is nothing more than a scam and we should all know it by now.

No medical value? Tell that to our ancesters from 9000 years ago to 1937. It was used for many things such as menstrual cramps, arthritis, headaches, diabetes, etc. No medical value?

Harry Anslinger, under FDR, conspired with the alcohol, tobacco, pharmaceutical, chemical, lumber, paper and petroleum industries to turn public opinion against against cannabis.

Harry used the money from these businesses to convince our friends in the entertainment industry to create movies such as "Reefer Madness" and others to create an anti-cannabis culture of Americans in the 1940's and 1950's.

The news media was bought up by big business and also used as a propaganda tool to deliver the big government and big business message to the brainwashed public.

The blacks and hispanics were the big losers of Harry's propaganda campaign. The age of jazz and soul met its demise. This is the real source of the racial disparity that became rampant during this era. It was our government that pitted one race against the other. Thank you Harry and FDR!

In 1961, under John F Kennedy, Harry Anslinger was given the go ahead to convince most United Nations members to sign a worldwide treaty for cannabis prohibition.

Cannabis prohibition was a product of big government and big business working together as a huge criminal enterprise to deceive the public and gain their support to criminalize an innocent and people friendly flower of nature.

All of this was done for the huge financial profits for criminals and politicians.

 

[Grendelkhan]

I would suggest that everyone take a look at the movie "Beer Wars" as it shows how the big companies keep control and their feet firmly planted on the little guys necks. The smaller microbreweries have everything against them including those in government. I have seen how this country treats little guys in business and it doesn't appear that they do well against the big companies. Just a little food for though when talking about legalization. If it goes thru will there be so many little blocks put in place to stop the mom and pops from even being able to play in the game. Growers tax, fire tax, police tax, zoning tax, etc...

 

[kmk420kali]

I would suggest that everyone take a look at the movie "Beer Wars" as it shows how the big companies keep control and their feet firmly planted on the little guys necks. The smaller microbreweries have everything against them including those in government. I have seen how this country treats little guys in business and it doesn't appear that they do well against the big companies. Just a little food for though when talking about legalization. If it goes thru will there be so many little blocks put in place to stop the mom and pops from even being able to play in the game. Growers tax, fire tax, police tax, zoning tax, etc...

They don't seem to be doing too bad--
http://seekingalpha.com/article/226708-big-beer-getting-desperate-as-micro-brews-explode

(EDIT)
My apologies if it seems like I am directing towards you personally, I don't mean to--
But IMO, it is counter productive to dwell on what might happen, when we need to just worry about getting it legalized-- Trust me, I understand many of the things you said, may well happen...plus a lot more, I suspect!! But those are bridges that will get crossed when got to-- Peace--

 

[supermanlives]

i personally think monsanto will take over mj. greedy bastards got the cash too.stockpile lots of seeds. i dont want gm weed either. i really dont care if it becomes legal or not as i am medical already. but it would be nice for others not as fortunate. i dont worry about the market as mom and pop stuff will always have a demand.theres alot of lazy and well off folks that wont grow . tomatos are legal and heirloom varieties still get top dollar

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

It also directs the state and local governments to avoid assisting the federal government in prosecuting marijuana crimes and seeks to remove marijuana from the federal government's list of controlled substances.

This is the best part by far, and is why everyone should vote yes. IT STANDS UP TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!!!!!! VOTE YES!!!

 

[Tripp Inmiasov]

I think Grendelkhan was right on the money (pun intended).

It's the large and greedy corporations that spend huge sums of money on political donations and lobbyists to keep their market share intact.

Our (not so) innocent politicians pass large and complex legislative bills that protect their campaign contributors and "stick it" to the small business owners.

If you were to read the business tax code, with all of its ridiculous accounting and filing requirements, you would understand what "economies of scale" means. A lot of these tax and filing requirements are simply meant to keep the small businesses "small".

A good example was the prohibition of alcohol. Almost every farmer in the late 1800's and early 1900's had a small distillery on their farm. Sure, they made moonshine, but the main use of the alcohol they produced was to fuel the internal combustion engines they used for their farming business.

When the Gettys and the Rockefellers realized the potential of petroleum was held hostage to alcohol use, they conspired with politicians to prohibit alcohol. Shortly afterwards, the sales of petroleum products took off and made them billionaires.

Now, alcohol prohibition was later retracted, but distillation equipment is still prohibited except for government approved operations.

Still don't get it? Look at the rules small breweries must abide by. The large corporations have a political stranglehold on beer and liquor.

Why is cannabis still prohibited? I think we all know why. It's a fuckin' weed that will grow anywhere. Why does our government go to such great lengths to stop cannabis from growing? Why don't you ask the alcohol and tobacco lobbyists. They are the money behind these anti-drug organizations.

You want to really have an impact on cannabis laws. Here's my suggestions:

1. Stop buying alcohol products. If you want beer, make your own or buy it from a microbrew.

2. Stop buying tobacco products. You don't need it.

There's so much more to know and understand about business and government, but I don't have time to write a book.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^This is a great idea to go along with the legalization vote. remember the last one only failed by six points because it was a bad bill.

Also it is hard to get northern cali growers to vote no on something that will protect them from the federal government. Legalization with protection will allow them to grow ten times as much so the price drop wont matter. even if it goes to 1000 a pound for outdoor, and a 2000 a pound for the dankest indoor. who cares grow more.

finally even if you dont like the law you might as well vote yes because you already grow in a federally illegal market anyways, so even if you don't have a state licenses fuck it; you would have a state ordered protection from the state with the license, but if not the punishment would be much less than it is now. It would be a fine. ohhhh nooo

 

[Grendelkhan]

I shouldn't say this but thank you all for keeping this discourse civil.