Kali Mist or Western Winds

[StickyBandit]

I have purchased both
Kali Mist regular (Serious Seeds)
Western Winds regular (Sagarmatha Seeds)
I'm open to purchasing more...
I started doing some research after purchasing the Kali Mist and decided to purchase the Western Winds also, in an attempt to get the older, more sativa version
I would like to use a male for some future projects and don't want to introduce any negative or indica effects that would introduce any brain fog etc
One such project would be making a hybrid with our ancient (30 year old by clone) Golfball and crossing the best resulting male over the original GB clone again and seeing where it takes us

Any idea what this strain might be?

Have been doing this strain for decades but have no idea what it is. I was hoping to get some kind of idea what it might be but it's a hard one to describe. It's not sweet or sour or strong fuel smelling or anything like that, it's kind of plain smelling and has a good long, strong high and...

www.icmag.com

I noticed @dubi mentioning Kali Mist in another thread, but I think that is a pre company split cut and may not resemble the new KM? Correct me if I'm wrong please

Does anyone know the history of these or have any insight into which of these two might be the best suitor?
I will also be growing them straight as they sound very pure, or at least the Western Winds, if I can believe what I've read
Cheers

 

[goingrey]

Serious Seeds says:
Kali Mist has been improved twice since its first release; in 1998 and in 2000. The most recent and also best version won 12 of the 14 cups behind the name 'Kali Mist’.

Sagarmatha is more tight lipped about Western Winds but a knockoff of the first/pre-98 Kali Mist most likely.

Serious also mentions about the genetics:
Many people have speculated about Kali Mist`s genetics, often claiming it also contains original Haze genetics (that`s wrong!), as Simon has not precisely revealed its pedigree. But even if he wanted to, he just would not be able: Simon had received Kali Mist`s ancestors from different growers who for the most part didn`t know themselves where they exactly originated from. Nevertheless, certain details are for sure. The wellknown author Mel Frank reported in 1996 that “Kali Mist appears to have much Southeast Asian character” and that he “grew Kali Mist ancestral stock in the early `80s in Oakland, California”. Well, we do not know whether there randomly was a direct connection between the stock Mel Frank grew back then and the material Simon used for breeding Kali Mist, but we know at least that Mel Frank guessed right – Kali Mist, indeed, has a strong Southeast Asian background, namely Cambodian genes which constitute a major influence in Kali Mist. And Simon reports that before he started working with the Kali Mist genetics, different US growers had already cultivated its ancestors, but not used it as breeding stock. The other ancestor that is definitely known is an Afghani indica, and Simon revealed that the breeding pattern consists of two sativa dominant hybrids. Furthermore he assumes that there are also Colombian and Thai genetics in Kali Mist`s ancestors.

Never grown it only had coffeeshop Kali Mist. It's been alright. Often at the top of the price range not sure if always such a great deal.

 

[StickyBandit]

Serious Seeds says:
Kali Mist has been improved twice since its first release; in 1998 and in 2000. The most recent and also best version won 12 of the 14 cups behind the name 'Kali Mist’.

Sagarmatha is more tight lipped about Western Winds but a knockoff of the first/pre-98 Kali Mist most likely.

Serious also mentions about the genetics:
Many people have speculated about Kali Mist`s genetics, often claiming it also contains original Haze genetics (that`s wrong!), as Simon has not precisely revealed its pedigree. But even if he wanted to, he just would not be able: Simon had received Kali Mist`s ancestors from different growers who for the most part didn`t know themselves where they exactly originated from. Nevertheless, certain details are for sure. The wellknown author Mel Frank reported in 1996 that “Kali Mist appears to have much Southeast Asian character” and that he “grew Kali Mist ancestral stock in the early `80s in Oakland, California”. Well, we do not know whether there randomly was a direct connection between the stock Mel Frank grew back then and the material Simon used for breeding Kali Mist, but we know at least that Mel Frank guessed right – Kali Mist, indeed, has a strong Southeast Asian background, namely Cambodian genes which constitute a major influence in Kali Mist. And Simon reports that before he started working with the Kali Mist genetics, different US growers had already cultivated its ancestors, but not used it as breeding stock. The other ancestor that is definitely known is an Afghani indica, and Simon revealed that the breeding pattern consists of two sativa dominant hybrids. Furthermore he assumes that there are also Colombian and Thai genetics in Kali Mist`s ancestors.

Never grown it only had coffeeshop Kali Mist. It's been alright. Often at the top of the price range not sure if always such a great deal.

Thanks for helping me out
I noticed a post here https://www.icmag.com/threads/the-search-for-trip-weed.278255/post-18142264
I laughed when he said it "smelt and tasted of soap and when smoked smelled like burnt stubble and shit"
Not sure when that was but I guess I'll grow both out and take clones of both males and females and test them. It's a dirty job but someone has to do it

Maybe I will get both versions of it
I will grow out both and let the family decide which is best
I really want the cleanest version if possible but will settle for psychedelic

 

[goingrey]

Thanks for helping me out
I noticed a post here https://www.icmag.com/threads/the-search-for-trip-weed.278255/post-18142264
I laughed when he said it "smelt and tasted of soap and when smoked smelled like burnt stubble and shit"
Not sure when that was but I guess I'll grow both out and take clones of both males and females and test them. It's a dirty job but someone has to do it

Maybe I will get both versions of it
I will grow out both and let the family decide which is best
I really want the cleanest version if possible but will settle for psychedelic

That's interesting, a super strong Quaze/Grinspoon pearly Kali Mist pheno? Don't think those are typical. Possibly something to look out for then.

 

[StickyBandit]

That's interesting, a super strong Quaze/Grinspoon pearly Kali Mist pheno? Don't think those are typical. Possibly something to look out for then.

Yeah, it would be great to get something like that!
Crossing with almost any of the high end Ace offerings would probably be nice also. Maybe the KA5H or the Amnesia Mac Ganja I have?
Getting ahead of myself though....need to get something special first

 

[@hempy]

I grew the very early version of Kali mist and it surprised me very potent and its affect is like smoking a real strong old school Thai but with a short practical flowering time.

If you love smoking sativas and your lucky to find something like i did and like what Dubi described smoking in Amsterdam you will want to make F2s to back it up and to keep a clone of it for as long as you can that is how good it was.

Good luck in your search i hope you do a grow thread.

 

[goingrey]

Yeah a grow thread would be super interesting especially if both Kali Mist and Western Winds are grown side by side in the same environment.

 

[StickyBandit]

I found a post from 2010:

"I've heard this is true, but I can't verify it.
The story went so that serious crossed it to "increase yield" (see original text; "In 2000, Kali Mist was improved for better yields"), while Sag took the original KM/WW and crossed it to a Haze dom male.

"So actually, there isn't pure pre-2000 KM/WW available. There's only two crosses of it, other being the Haze cross and other being the _SUSPECTED_ (no facts available) indica (Afghani) cross.

I don't really know the truth, i just have read that people get better results with KM or in other words it's harder to get good specimens out of WW."

 

[StickyBandit]

I was just thinking...
What if the two strains were crossed. Wouldn't there be more likelihood of getting back toward the original strain due to genetic odds or something?
I don't know much about it. Just throwing the idea out there

 

[goingrey]

I found a post from 2010:

"I've heard this is true, but I can't verify it.
The story went so that serious crossed it to "increase yield" (see original text; "In 2000, Kali Mist was improved for better yields"), while Sag took the original KM/WW and crossed it to a Haze dom male.

"So actually, there isn't pure pre-2000 KM/WW available. There's only two crosses of it, other being the Haze cross and other being the _SUSPECTED_ (no facts available) indica (Afghani) cross.

I don't really know the truth, i just have read that people get better results with KM or in other words it's harder to get good specimens out of WW."

Interesting info straight from the horses' mouths in the same thread..

Western Winds was also reworked at some point (parents lost in a raid). It was always just an inbred Kali Mist though, not a Haze cross ("Haze dom male" probably just a description of the Kali Mist father).

Hello everyone

its pleasing to read all the discussions over Kali mist and western winds. I cannot speak for serious seeds but i do know that we used very similiar live material when breeding our repeating stocks of western winds. however after some interaction with the local police we were forced to create new material from seed stock that was selected from our earliest breeding efforts to try to maintain the original integrety. both western winds and kali mist are fine examples of what a great sativa should be. run side by side grows and you will find that is true. be careful out there and thanks again for your interest with our products and personel.

t

The first Kali Mist seeds ever were already made by me before 1993 and were sold at that time by a seedcompany (cerebral seeds) predecessing Serious Seeds. Indeed, a partner of that shared company later started another seed company (sagarmatha) and used those original Kali seeds to create 'western winds'. Yes from those first Kali seeds, as he didn't have acces to the parental stock. Cerebr. seeds only existed for a short while; the exact same Kali seeds were later sold by Serious Seeds from 1994 onwards.

The 1998-2000 Kali Mist was more "indica" and people complained.

What you do not mention at all is the fact that Kali was already altered around 1998. At this point I thought it was an improvement but it was not. People at that time complained about the loss of the typical sativa high, much like you do in fact. The combination of genes of th '98 version did carry more 'indica' in the genome. That constitution was again substituted in 2000 for the present Kali seeds which are for sale till this day.

The present Kali Mist seeds gave rise to several price winning plants and do carry more than 90% 'sativa' genes. On the bud pics of the living Kali plant in Monkeys article one can clearly see the narrow leaf shape sticking out of the bud. And take a close look at the structure of the bud itself; at first glance it seems a relatively thight bud. But if checked upon closer one can see clusters of flowers forming little spiraling structures (or small 'towers' as some people describe it). All very recognizable and sativa-like for people who are familiar with it and very different from 'indica' or even a hybrid between those two.

 

[willydread]

I have no idea what KM was like in 1998, but I tried it in 2004 and last year I grew a plant from those seeds...
I have grown it next to 5hzC, (without starting controversy) honestly I think it is something similar to C5 or A5, maybe a cross, same structure as Nl5hz, same incense flavor (but km also has something fruity), effect powerful hybrid, sometimes psychedelic ....

 

[@hempy]

This is like the fem i found in the first version of Kali Mist.

I dont know what the other versions of Kali mist is like but this version smoked nothing like any Haze hybrid i smoked.

I made

 

[Nexus7]

Never had the pure KM but really enjoyed Ace seeds - Kali China which features an older version of Kali Mist. Not sure if it was a pre '2000 or pre '98 version.

 

[ArtOfSelection]

grew kali out in 2011 it was one of the strains that turned me into a sativa head ......very mood enhancing and uplifting ....i lost my mother plant along the way .maybe one day will go down memory lane and grow her out again ...... your in a great position to do a comparison....would be a great service to the community if you did ....can't remember even seeing a western winds grow .......could be a winner

 

[StickyBandit]

I grew the very early version of Kali mist and it surprised me very potent and its affect is like smoking a real strong old school Thai but with a short practical flowering time.

If you love smoking sativas and your lucky to find something like i did and like what Dubi described smoking in Amsterdam you will want to make F2s to back it up and to keep a clone of it for as long as you can that is how good it was.

Good luck in your search i hope you do a grow thread.

I will do a grow thread for sure. I just have to get my ducks in a row

@ArtOfSelection yeah, sounds like it could be a winner.
Well worth looking into anyway
I was looking into the roots of the Mango Chutney I have growing and this one intrigued me.

 

[StickyBandit]

AKBeanBrains has the Original Pre2000 Kali Mist at F4. $100USD a pack. Email Dave for a complete list. dankortowne@gmail.com He also has Pre2000 NL5 x Haze. Pre 2000 NL5. Pre2000 Black Domina. Pre2000 4 Way. Sensi Star at F4. Durban Poison from Super Sativa Seed Club ( 80s version ) And other Pre2000 genetics

Heres a list I got a several months ago. $100 packs.

He also has $60 packs of other genetics.

$100 Packs.

68 Santa Cruz Haze/A5-NL5-Haze
89 NL
907 Blue Genes
95 Black Domina BX
Americanna BX
Beatrix Choice
Big Fuck/Kali Mist
Blueberry Cream
Bucket list BX
Cantalope Haze/89 NL
CGPR/TK NL5 Haze
Chocolope
Cluster Fuck (Uranus cut atf/mtf bx2)
Consumption
Consumption/Rhodesian Poison
Cuban Black Haze x A5/NL5/Haze
DeathStar BX
Dope Beard Durban
Flattop Haze A5/NL5-Haze F3
G13/HP
Ghash/93 Black Domina F3
Golden Showers
GST/Consumption
Hawaiian Cat Piss V3
Hawaiian Cat Piss/Chocolope
Ike’s Afghani 80’s Humbolt
Kali Mist F4
Mexican Death Sativa
MTF BX4
NL1
NL5
NL5 Haze
NL5/89 NL
NL5-NL1/89NL
PHK/TK NL5 Haze
Romulan BX
Sensi Star F4
Skunk Qabbage BX7
Skunk Qabbage/Tropolope
SoHum Blk Dom/95 Blk Dom F2
SoHum Blk Dom BX
SSSC-M48
SSSC/Durban
Sunrise Thai/Chocolope
TK NL5 Haze F2
TK NL5 Haze F3 (NL DOM, or TK DOM or HAZE DOM)
TK NL5 Haze/Kali Mist
TK NL5 Haze (Big Fuck)/NL1
TK-TK NL5 Haze/Lime BX
Tropolope/Romulan
Uber Cluster (Cluster Fuck-ACC/MTF)
White 91/Chem 91 BX
White 91/TK NL5 Haze F2
Williams Wonder F4

I believe these are $60 packs but I could be wrong. Shipping is or at least was $5USD for No Tracking, and $10USD for Tracking.

He also sends overseas and I believe the Shipping is $15 USD for 1st Class, and $35USD for Stealth 1st Class Shipping.

68 Santa Cruz Haze/M48 F2
A1/Super Skunk
A1 Testerossa/Skunk Qabbage
AK 4 Way Pure indica BX F2
Americanna/Black Dom HP NL1
Americanna/NL1
Americanna/TK NL5 Haze
Americana Big Skunk BX
Americanna/Super Skunk
Big Skunk/A1
Big Skunk/Hawaiian Cat Piss
Big Skunk/NL1
Big Skunk/Williams Wonder
Black Domina/MTFNL1
Black Dom NW Hash Plant/Super Skunk
Black Domina/Super Skunk
Black Domina/TKNL5 Haze
Black Triangle/Americanna F2
Blue Balls
Blueberry/Freezeland
Blueberry/Lemon Glade
Blueberry Muffin/Romulan
Blue Blood/MTF
Blue Blood/Romulan
Blue Blood/Super Skunk
Blue Blood/Vintage Blueberry
Blue Dream/TK NL5 Haze (blue meanie)
Blue Dream/TK-TK NL5 Haze
Boel Oaxacan/Dwarf Oaxacan
CGPR/Romulan
Deathstarosa F2
Dope Beard Durban/Consumption
Door Beard Durban/Rhodesian Poison
DTHF F4
Durbalayan (77himolayan/Durban f3)
Freezeland IBL
G13 Grailhaze-MTF-NL1/Consumption
Gasolime/MTF
GMO/Blueberry (rotten berries)
Gorilla Glue 4/Black Domina-NWHP-NL1
Grapefruit Web/Grapefruit Bad Ass
GSC/NL1

I spoke to Dave via email and it sounds like this could be the real deal
Here's what he had to say
"The Kali mist is from 93 stock increased by thelostoros it was f3 , I just picked the best females to make f4 then used the longer run females for f5 , so it’s a 12-13 week sativa leaner "

 

[Nexus7]

Pretty sure the '68 Santa Cruz Haze is just re-named Oldtimers Haze (OTH). Seen it mentioned by Snowhigh or Kiona I think.

 

[Nexus7]

Yeah one of the parents of Cedar Black Haze from kiona thc

"This was crossed to ’68 pure purple commune haze x Santa Marta Mota,"

In reality just name game/marketing. Nevil had the '69 and they thought OTH pre-dated that so called it '68 Haze.

A bit shameful really ...

 

[LHC]

To you who have grown KM. When do you prefer to harvest (clear, milky, amber) ?

 

[StickyBandit]

This is the strain that peaked my interest in Western Winds when I was looking into its lineage, Mango Chutney
This one smells awesome and is shaping up well. Perhaps another month and she'll be ready
If temps were lower I think the buds would be tighter