Kaiser chronic pain treatment while also using MMJ
- Thread starter Grow Tech
- Start date
I think that most chronic pain programs have been forced into requiring a UA at odd intervals. Supposedly the idea is to insure that you actually have the opiates in your system - strange twist on drug testing, no? As my doc explained it, the DEA wants to insure that you are actually taking the drug and not "redirecting" it. I was told that if I tested positive for MMJ and didn't have a rec on file, then I would be dropped from the program. With one on file at the doctor's office, it is supposedly ok, and I've been operating like that for the last several years. I don't know the specifics of how Kaiser deals with it, though.
StayHigh149
Member
I don't know about Kaiser but I do know that most pain management programs do randoms & will drop u without a rec.
I do know the veterans administration is told to treat mj as any other prescribed medicine, if ur in a state with a med program & u have a rec. If ur in an outlaw state, like me, then they will no longer prescribe pain meds and drop u from the pain mgmt program if u come up hot on a UA or blood test.
Pisses me off that state borders can determine what is medicine & what is not...
I do know the veterans administration is told to treat mj as any other prescribed medicine, if ur in a state with a med program & u have a rec. If ur in an outlaw state, like me, then they will no longer prescribe pain meds and drop u from the pain mgmt program if u come up hot on a UA or blood test.
Pisses me off that state borders can determine what is medicine & what is not...
I have Kaiser. When I had my 1st appt I told my Dr the truth about what medications I was taking. This included Morphine, Ativan(benzo) and Cannabis(I have a DR. recommendation) I told her I was there to get off the Morphine and Ativan She told me there was no problem as long as you are not taking both Morphine and cannabis as both are pain medications. I got lucky she is a great Dr. I was piss tested it was positive for the 3 I said i was taking. I have been working with her tapering off the Morphine/Ativan. I have had no issues. She even prescribed me more morphine that's lower in strength to tapper off with. I believe it depends on the Dr. I just saw her on 5/16/2014. If you are on high dosages like I was 240mg a day of Morphine do not do cold turkey unless you are prepared to enter in patient rehab very dangerous you must be monitored. I'm tapering down this is safe for out patient treatment. I did go to there detox depart. They will try to get you to go to In patient rehab.. That DR was an asshole. These DR deal with Addicts they think anyone that's there will lie about there usage. I was a dependent user from a injury very different. I refused to do cold turkey like he Suggested. I told him that's dangerous for someone that's on high dosages like I was. It was all bullshit. I told him I'm done I will let my Primary Dr. treat me with tapering off. After that no issues.
240 MG per day? That's a lot! Of pure morphine? I have taken 4 Mg. and it blew me away. Anyway, kicking opiates cold turkey, while very unpleasant, is not really dangerous. Kicking diazepams is another story. It can result in seizures which possibly could be fatal, so this is where you need monitoring.
Many years ago, I had an opioid habit of considerable proportion. I kicked "cold turkey". It took 6 months to get over the withdrawal. Never slept more than 2 hours during that period, waking up in a cold sweat as if out of a nightmare. One day, I woke up, and it was just gone. I thought it would never end. People have been known to have withdrawal symptoms for as long as two years after years of addiction, but this is unusual. Be careful easing off the Atavan.....
Many years ago, I had an opioid habit of considerable proportion. I kicked "cold turkey". It took 6 months to get over the withdrawal. Never slept more than 2 hours during that period, waking up in a cold sweat as if out of a nightmare. One day, I woke up, and it was just gone. I thought it would never end. People have been known to have withdrawal symptoms for as long as two years after years of addiction, but this is unusual. Be careful easing off the Atavan.....
going from 240mg to 0 is dangerous according to my Dr. I will take her advice thanks. I have no issues with Ativan withdrawals. I have not taken any in 5 days I feel fine.. I was taking 6mg a day for 5 years. I do agree Benzo's are more dangerous then Morphine.
240 to zero is a big drop. Wasn't suggesting you do it. Dr. is correct in weaning you slowly to avoid withdrawal, but withdrawal from opiates won't kill you, although it's very unpleasant. 240 Mg. of morphine is a massive dosage, if it's pure morphine. That's a lethal dose several times over for a person with no tolerance. That's 60 times the dosage I've taken for pain, which blew me away for 24 hours.
That is true it will not 
I have a patient that uses kaiser and they have forced her to quit using cannabis stating that it could cause her to overdose (its only 10/325 norco btw 4 times a day 
) or they threatened not to prescribe her meds.... she like 75 years old ... FUCK Kaiser... they are all about making money and finding ways to refuse service is a great way to cut costs.
hippocrates would be ashamed
) or they threatened not to prescribe her meds.... she like 75 years old ... FUCK Kaiser... they are all about making money and finding ways to refuse service is a great way to cut costs.hippocrates would be ashamed
I think that it might give you terminal diarrhea, though.
I was taking 90mg a day, time release, and prior to my last surgery the doctor was concerned about them not being able to control the pain post-surgery. I started cutting back over a 2-3 week period and everything was fine until about the 2nd day of no morphine. Jesus! Explosive diarrhea without the slightest warning - I was ready to start covering everything in the house with sheets of viscuene. By that time I was a couple of days from the surgery with no idea when it was going to subside, so I went back to 30mg/day. Immediate relief followed. Strange stuff.
I'm doing very well no serious withdrawals symptoms. Today is day 7 going from 240mg to 40mg. The only thing I'm experiencing is hot/cold sweats. They did prescribe me withdrawals meds. Clonidine is a Blood pressure med but is commonly used for Alcohol and Opiate withdrawals and Dicyclomine is for Abdominal cramps. This week I'm suppose to be taking 10mg morning, 10mg lunch, 20,mg bedtime. I did not need the lunchtime dosage..The mg is decrease ea week for 4 weeks. I'm doing way better then expected.
I have a patient that uses kaiser and they have forced her to quit using cannabis stating that it could cause her to overdose (its only 10/325 norco btw 4 times a day
hippocrates would be ashamed
In my experience with Kaiser, you are dead wrong about this. I've dealt with private insurance most of my life, and unfortunately with Worker's Comp for many years, and currently have Kaiser through my ex-wife. They have been incredibly responsive and appear to order testing and imaging with no concern for cost whatsoever. I would suspect that your client's experience, and what PF said above about taking morphine and cannabis at the same time being a concern for them, stems from mainstream medicine's total lack of experience with cannabis rather than any cost-saving motive.
For example, I've waited several weeks to have an MRI approved by Blue Shield, and once waited 18 months for fucking Worker's Comp to approve one when I couldn't even use my arm. My mother had Kaiser, and took a spill one time - they had her in the tube in the middle of the doctor's examination as a matter of routine treatment. Amazing difference.
She just didn't want me to use both. There both pain meds. It wasn't a big deal. She know I use cannabis. I also like kaiser..It was the Chemical addiction DR he was an assholes. You have to see a addiction counselor to determine what category you fall in. My primary Dr agreed tapering was the best treatment in my case. The counselor also agreed tapering was the best treatment. When I went in to see the Dr he was an asshole. Didn't even check with everyone what treatment we all agreed was best for me. Looked at me and said where doing cold turkey. I was like WTF are you talking about. Anyway I told him after his speech to not worry about my case My primary Dr will treatment me I got up and left.
The only bad thing is with SSI the copay's are very expensive 180$ copay for a MRI
The only bad thing is with SSI the copay's are very expensive 180$ copay for a MRI
yeah the bottom line reference was off topic as not prescribing my family member her pain meds isn't costing them any money
I guess what I meant was more along the lines of their "policy" being priority over the treatment of people... whats funny is most people can significantly reduce their opiate intake when using cannabis... and I thought doctors were supposed to be smart.
part of the oath they swear to is do no harm... and I can certainly tell you that not being allowed to use cannabis regularly is definitely doing her harm
I guess what I meant was more along the lines of their "policy" being priority over the treatment of people... whats funny is most people can significantly reduce their opiate intake when using cannabis... and I thought doctors were supposed to be smart.
part of the oath they swear to is do no harm... and I can certainly tell you that not being allowed to use cannabis regularly is definitely doing her harm
I wonder what they think about break-through? I take Avinza (time-release morphine) as the main med, but have Norco for breakthrough.
I didn't realize that they had co-pay plans that went up that high. My mom is a retired state employee, and there was no additional charge for the MRI beyond the office visit co-pay, which was only a few bucks.
I have Medicare through Kaiser. It's not very good as far as copay's go. My Dr appt are 30$ a pop..
I was using Morphine 60mg ER 4x a day with Morphine Oral solution for breakthrough 40mg in the morning to start the day. Cannabis took the place of that. I didn't need it anymore. I still have 4 full bottles of the stuff 100mg per 5mil is the strength of the stuff. I use to use 2mil's=40mg in juice.
Now I'm suppose to be taking 3 doses a day for tapering I did not need the lunch dosage I took a few hits off my bubbller
I was using Morphine 60mg ER 4x a day with Morphine Oral solution for breakthrough 40mg in the morning to start the day. Cannabis took the place of that. I didn't need it anymore. I still have 4 full bottles of the stuff 100mg per 5mil is the strength of the stuff. I use to use 2mil's=40mg in juice.
Now I'm suppose to be taking 3 doses a day for tapering I did not need the lunch dosage I took a few hits off my bubbller
Thanks buddy Dr don't understand. CANNABIS can take the place of harmful narcotic's. I see this changing sooner or later. There's no way for them to put the genie back in the bottle.
Dr don't understand. CANNABIS can take the place of harmful narcotic's. I see this changing sooner or later. There's no way for them to put the genie back in the bottle.
PF.
believe me I know all about it, my dad has been through the gambit of medicines and quasi surgical procedures... currently 100 mcg fentanyl patch every 2 days plus 10mg percocet 6-8 a day for breakthrough pain valium for back spasms and gabapentin for nerve damage/pain... and he still suffers in pain day in and day out near tears at points in time (and this is a man who has been seriously tough his whole life) he can't sit, stand up straight or lie down for to long comfortably.
and every day the opiates are less and less as effective.
but when I give him decarbed oil he feels tons better and wants to do things and doesn't suffer for doing them, but it takes a lot of oil and different plants work totally different and or require totally different dosages...
this decarbed ethanol oil, made from OG, he eats about 2 grams a day to get sufficient pain relief and s good nights sleep...
as where other strains I have used he received sufficient relief (significantly better actually) from less than half that dose... finding the right plants to combine for the right cannabinoid/terpene profile is going to be a big thing for breeders to work on not so easily done generally speaking, as a lot of strains advertised to help for pain really only work well for slight pains it seems not debilitating can maintain a normal life or sanity kind of pain.
I'm working on it my self and I am sure you are too... glad to hear you are getting off the poison I grant you the best of luck man seriously.
I talked with bodhi about his TE for pain and while he said there are "narcotic" like phenos in there they are more well suited for sleep than pain but Im thinking outcrossing and working with it could definitely work out... are you working with any high CBD's?
believe me I know all about it, my dad has been through the gambit of medicines and quasi surgical procedures... currently 100 mcg fentanyl patch every 2 days plus 10mg percocet 6-8 a day for breakthrough pain valium for back spasms and gabapentin for nerve damage/pain... and he still suffers in pain day in and day out near tears at points in time (and this is a man who has been seriously tough his whole life) he can't sit, stand up straight or lie down for to long comfortably.
and every day the opiates are less and less as effective.
but when I give him decarbed oil he feels tons better and wants to do things and doesn't suffer for doing them, but it takes a lot of oil and different plants work totally different and or require totally different dosages...
this decarbed ethanol oil, made from OG, he eats about 2 grams a day to get sufficient pain relief and s good nights sleep...
as where other strains I have used he received sufficient relief (significantly better actually) from less than half that dose... finding the right plants to combine for the right cannabinoid/terpene profile is going to be a big thing for breeders to work on not so easily done generally speaking, as a lot of strains advertised to help for pain really only work well for slight pains it seems not debilitating can maintain a normal life or sanity kind of pain.
I'm working on it my self and I am sure you are too... glad to hear you are getting off the poison I grant you the best of luck man seriously.
I talked with bodhi about his TE for pain and while he said there are "narcotic" like phenos in there they are more well suited for sleep than pain but Im thinking outcrossing and working with it could definitely work out... are you working with any high CBD's?
Not currently, I have tried high CBD strains. I didn't find them much different then any other strain. Might be because it's still not high enough?. I want a strain with both high CBD/THC. I have not found one that has both. I have bad insomnia I get 1-2 hr's of sleep at the most I have even tried fully decarbed oil with no luck for sleep. Oil hurts my lungs to much. Edible's I don't like the high freaks me out. I would love to get my hands on Charlotte's Web and work with that. I know I will never get my hands on that strain.
