Just another Northern Lights grow..

[noknees]

There’s a theory that because QBs don’t exude enough infrareds so the leaves don’t get warm enough to process nutrient properly. The newer QBs all have an assortment of red led to combat this. HPS and other lights give more of the right type of heat. The newer leaves don’t conduct nutrient so well if they don’t receive the right type of heat.

if your light is all 3k "white" LEDs, buy a $25 lux meter and start taking + recording measurements. if you're new to LED, they will be shockingly powerful. both in directional power and efficiency.

what does that space measure for square footage?

 

[Kalbhairav]

The space is around 7/8 square foot.

Yes to the shockingly powerful. I just want to learn how to utilise the full power of the light without killing the plants. That would be a good start

 

[noknees]

When I transplanted into these 11 litre pots

The space is around 7/8 square foot.

just to confirm, 8 square feet? how much height overall?

 

[Elmer Bud]

Dbl post . Apology .

 

[HyDroid]

LED and bleaching

LED and bleaching

if your light is all 3k "white" LEDs, buy a $25 lux meter and start taking + recording measurements. if you're new to LED, they will be shockingly powerful. both in directional power and efficiency.

what does that space measure for square footage?

Agreed, these white LEDs have more intensity than the net would lead you to believe, especially quantum boards, because they fill all of the angles with intensity, not just a single angle to the point source, since there is light coming from so many LEDs.

Most lux meters do a bad job integrating light from all directions, so a lux meter can't really transfer results across lighting modality differences like LED vs HID. Such a meter will read high when pointed towards an HID source and rapidly fall off when the angle changes, even if there is an integrating sphere on the probe. LEDs banks like the quantum boards will give a strong reading from many angles, indicating there is actually more light incident on the leaf.

I have found that until I have about 8 nodes, I need to keep my LEDs reading less than 9000 lux if I want that dark, dark green, and rh should be high too. If a leaf gets burned with more light, it will never fully recover, but new growth can be healthy. Burned leaves will more readily be consumed for nutrients and dropped, too.

After about 8 nodes the plant shape is different from a seedling and shades new center growth long enough for it to adapt to higher light demands. After 8 nodes, I step it up 1000 lux a day, once you hit 20k you can go faster, 2000 lux a day.

Curiously, the cotyledon and first two sets of leaves can remain green under 20,000 lux but will start to burn after the third set comes in. Hormone changes and total nutrient rendering ability play into this too, probably. Once the plant is established in a large pot it can take up the massive amounts of nitrogen and cal/mag that are needed to keep up with the massive amounts of light from all angles.

 

[Kalbhairav]

Thank you all for the suggestions and help. This is a ‘old dog, new tricks’ type scenario and you’re all being super helpful

Noticed some burnt tips this morning on a couple of plants. This normally leads me to believe there’s quite a lot of nutrient in the soil. They haven’t been long in the new pots/soil and I already fed half strength grow, Epsom salts and root stim last watering.

Certainly a learning curve.. Been considering swapping out for a single cob as I hear some are having less problems with them. Of course, grass might not be greener on the other side. We’ll see if I go for it or not later down the road.

 

[window]

I find if I add root stim to grow I usually get a little burn, it’s like the root stim mainlines the nutes into the plant, lol
So I alternate, one watering with grow and the next root stim.

 

[Kalbhairav]

I find if I add root stim to grow I usually get a little burn, it’s like the root stim mainlines the nutes into the plant, lol
So I alternate, one watering with grow and the next root stim.

Good to know
I haven’t used the Plant Magic root stim for a couple of years and thought I’d get back into the habit of using it. I also thought I’d try out their new organic p-k boost. There’s so many reports of them changing the oldtimer bloom that I wondered whether they made it weaker so they could include the extra bottle.

 

[Kalbhairav]

just to confirm, 8 square feet? how much height overall?

Sorry, I missed this one..
I’ve got about 1 meter 80cm in height.

 

[JustSumTomatoes]

Very nice. Nl is one of my favorites, such a reliable classic. Pulling up a chair for this

 

[Chevy cHaze]

One tsp on 6L should do it I reckon. These things are needed, but no need to dump 'em on too much that will cause other problems.
Better a little a few times than a truckload at once.
I'm not using epsom salts, I'm using dolomite lime that I mix into my soil. Since using LEDs and sort of feeling the bigger consumption of Ca and Mg I simply add more.

During the cycle when I don't really wan to add any lime to the soil anymore I use BioBizz BioHeaven and Activera products to water with which contain both and a load of trace elements too. Using CalMag o.s. will help you quickly I reckon.

All the best
CC

 

[Blazeee]

Hello Kal

From looking at your pics I would have to agree with others in saying its possibly a cal mag deficiency that your girls are showing. As you have already said, I imagine a foliar feed would fix things up quickly.

I use all mix myself and feed a solution of bio-grow and plant magic cal mag from around a week after transplant of rooted clones, then with every watering throughout veg and flower.

The only time I dont add cal mag is when im transplanting and have just applied azos or great white, then i might leave it out for a watering or 2 as im paranoid it could mess with the beneficial bacteria.

Good to know
I haven’t used the Plant Magic root stim for a couple of years and thought I’d get back into the habit of using it. I also thought I’d try out their new organic p-k boost. There’s so many reports of them changing the oldtimer bloom that I wondered whether they made it weaker so they could include the extra bottle.

The company did also get sold a few years ago, and I do recall others complaining about having issues with the nutes at one point.

 

[hazyfontazy]

Pm me a saffe address and I'll send you some plant magic root stim and cal mag.. I got some biobizz stuff too I don't want.

 

[Kalbhairav]

Hello Kal

From looking at your pics I would have to agree with others in saying its possibly a cal mag deficiency that your girls are showing. As you have already said, I imagine a foliar feed would fix things up quickly.

Hey Blazeee,
Thanks for dropping in

Yesterday I sprayed a very light epsom salt solution which seems to have been beneficial. I live in a hard water area so I'm not going to add any extra calcium for the minute since I think the tap water will have enough. Having said that, I usually use rain water collected from a barrel in the back garden. Maybe I'll rethink and get a bottle of the Plant Magic magne-cal. I'm amazed that this product has 2.6% nitrogen in it though.

I use all mix myself and feed a solution of bio-grow and plant magic cal mag from around a week after transplant of rooted clones, then with every watering throughout veg and flower.

The only time I dont add cal mag is when im transplanting and have just applied azos or great white, then i might leave it out for a watering or 2 as im paranoid it could mess with the beneficial bacteria.

I've never used the all-mix but maybe I'll get a bag next time and give it a go.

I used to use Trichoderma and mycorrhizae every time I potted on. I haven't for a long while since favouring a simpler approach of less bottles and amendments. I have heard that unless you're using a completely natural organic approach, mineral ferts can stop or deplete the mycelial biomass that's growing under the soil.

I used to check when taking out my soil whether there was a web of mycelium growing at the level I added it. It was always pretty minimal.. I then read up on the best way to apply mycos and learnt that they need to be applied in a layer that's in direct contact with the roots. After applying it differently I had much better success in producing a thriving mycelium web. It took a lot longer to pot up when applying the mycos directly to the roots and then spreading it evenly at the layer where my root ball would sit. This is partly why I stopped using it.

Also, I think I read somewhere that cannabis loves a myco mix that's also high in Trichoderma. I used to use this one as it was pretty cost effective and quite rich.

https://thenutrientcompany.com/coll...tnc-mycorr-max?variant=19678683005028#reviews

When planting outdoor in the summer, I use my own compost from a multitude of different rotted plants and vegetables. Never had to amend except during bloom.

Now I've got this little indoor project I definitely need to alter my approach a little.

The company did also get sold a few years ago, and I do recall others complaining about having issues with the nutes at one point.

Yep, they've definitely changed quite a lot of their product. Just today I sent window a message about their organic PK boost. I never noticed before but they now have a warning on the Oldtimer Grow, Bloom and PK that states the products contain '1,2-Benzisothiazol-3(2H)-one'.

Maybe they always did or it's an organic compound?
I did a little research and it's pretty toxic to marine life, humans (to a certain degree) and is used in cement, pesticides and other stuff. Possibly they added it as a preservative or something. Thought I might email them for a little more clarification.

I also read a few posts on the other site where oldtimer was saying you didn't used to need much else except the Grow and Bloom. Seems they've definitely changed the recipe..

Anyway, I might look into some other brands other than Plant Magic and Biobizz at some point.

 

[Kalbhairav]

Pm me a saffe address and I'll send you some plant magic root stim and cal mag.. I got some biobizz stuff too I don't want.

Hello hazy,
Thanks for the offer and dropping in..

 

[jayd]

hope all goes well for you. love the old skool strains

 

[Shmavis]

Agreed, these white LEDs have more intensity than the net would lead you to believe, especially quantum boards, because they fill all of the angles with intensity, not just a single angle to the point source, since there is light coming from so many LEDs.

Most lux meters do a bad job integrating light from all directions, so a lux meter can't really transfer results across lighting modality differences like LED vs HID. Such a meter will read high when pointed towards an HID source and rapidly fall off when the angle changes, even if there is an integrating sphere on the probe. LEDs banks like the quantum boards will give a strong reading from many angles, indicating there is actually more light incident on the leaf.

I have found that until I have about 8 nodes, I need to keep my LEDs reading less than 9000 lux if I want that dark, dark green, and rh should be high too. If a leaf gets burned with more light, it will never fully recover, but new growth can be healthy. Burned leaves will more readily be consumed for nutrients and dropped, too.

After about 8 nodes the plant shape is different from a seedling and shades new center growth long enough for it to adapt to higher light demands. After 8 nodes, I step it up 1000 lux a day, once you hit 20k you can go faster, 2000 lux a day.

Curiously, the cotyledon and first two sets of leaves can remain green under 20,000 lux but will start to burn after the third set comes in. Hormone changes and total nutrient rendering ability play into this too, probably. Once the plant is established in a large pot it can take up the massive amounts of nitrogen and cal/mag that are needed to keep up with the massive amounts of light from all angles.

This is really interesting. I can't say I have heard of massive amounts of nitrogen being needed as well. Cal/mag, sure. That seems to be the consensus. Interesting though because I recently had some healthy cuts under T5 that went under 2 HLG-65 4000K and they quickly went downhill. And if I had to guess, they mostly looked to be nitrogen deficient. Even though when moved under another light source, they seemed to have an adequate supply of nitrogen...


Kal, they definitely look to have a Mg deficiency. But otherwise look great. Love the fat leaves and they look to have some thick stalks on them!

 

[Kalbhairav]

Vigour - Nil

Vigour - Nil

Hello folks,

Hope everyone had a nice festive day yesterday It’s Boxing Day here in the U.K. and part of the holiday so fortunately not at work.

It’s been been 7 days since last pictures - 34 days above soil. I’m pretty sure there’s been more growth laterally instead of vertically. Was actually hoping for minimal branching and more vertical growth.

Not at all surprised that these are taking their time. Any seed line kept pure for 30 years or more isn’t going to have much vigour.

Glad to see a little variation to the group. Have two tall plants around 12”/32cm and the smallest measures around 9”/22cm. This small plant is curious as it’s the least effected by the Mg def and it’s lower branches aren’t far from the canopy.

The plant in the top right corner has the most vigour and very long leaf stems. The long leaf stems are a little annoying as they encroach on their neighbours. Have been cutting away foliage from the bottom as I go, nothing too drastic, just a bit.

Mg def is pretty much the same. I’m adding a single tsp of Epsom every watering and have a light Epsom solution I spray every now and then. Just before flower I’ll up the amount.

Will wait a little longer for them to gain a bit more growth. Have a feeling the stretch will be very minimal during flower, maybe 20% to 50% at most.

Sorry there isn’t anything exciting to report. I should add some gifs of cats or something to make it worth while

 

[gardener60]

They are looking good to me. Really full and strong looking. Good job.

 

[hazyfontazy]

look fantastic