Is there an OMRI listed liquid nutrient that will work in hydro?

[Mr Celsius]

so naturally occurring mineral compounds are not organic in your book then? why not?

Well first we need to look at what real soil is and how it became soil.

An ideal normal soil is 50% parent material (well explain that in a moment), 25'ish% air, 25'ish% water and 5% O.M. (organic matter).

Parent material is made from igneous, metamorphic or sedimentary rock. Igneous rock is cooled magma without crystallization (I.E it cooled underground), metamorphic rock is cooled magma with crstallization (I.E it cooled above ground). Finally, sedimentary rock is exactly what it sounds like, sediment. It is sediment that had settled from generally sea beds of water millions of years ago and has hardened to form rock.

I will make the point that everything on this plant can be viewed as organic. Petroleum, plastics, arsenic and many other undesirable products for our planet.

How our soil's got this parent material in them (carrying these minerals you speak of) was through and/or heat, cold, wind and rain. This process took thousands of years and developed with the ecosystem that surrounded it. Now man strip mines these minerals and processes them through electro-stasis and other techniques. This creates a very concentrated form that would not occur in nature, therefor many organisms cannot tolerate the concentrations. The natural earth is a buffering agent against these minerals. Organic farming is about using bacteria and fungi to your advantage and have organic matter broken down by these microbes.

The processing and mining of these minerals also produces a great amount of waste that is damaging to our environment.

This is one of the main underlying differences between hydroponics and organics. Hydroponics have chelated and plant-available minerals that do not need to be broken down for uptake, man has already done this. Organics is the process of breaking down carbonaceous or nitroceous materials that then make nutrients available for plants. Organics does this in a slow way, so that there is balance in the soil. Conventional agriculture dumps synthetic nutrients into fields and destroys the soil food web. While it is true that many microbes can handle a certain degree of inorganic metal salts, it is not advantageous to an organic style of farming.

Was that a sufficient answer for you?

 

[Wait...What?]

no, its not. you wrote a lot of words but didn't answer the question.

and to answer your original question, 'nature's nectar' was the first OMRI-listed nutrient product line for hydroponics. I'm sure there are others by now.

if i go down to the beach and put some seawater on a plate and let it evaporate in the sun, is the sea salt that is left behind organic to you?

if i stick a shovel in the ground and it comes up with soil, that is organic to you. if it comes up with limestone, that isn't? that doesn't make sense to me. grinding the rock into a powder somehow makes it no longer organic(?)

what about fossilized guano?

I think you are using the word 'organic' when you really mean 'biodynamic'


but this is why it took growers forever to come up with a standard definition for 'organic'...

 

[Mr Celsius]

no, its not. you wrote a lot of words but didn't answer the question.

and to answer your original question, 'nature's nectar' was the first OMRI-listed nutrient product line for hydroponics. I'm sure there are others by now.

if i go down to the beach and put some seawater on a plate and let it evaporate in the sun, is the sea salt that is left behind organic to you?

if i stick a shovel in the ground and it comes up with soil, that is organic to you. if it comes up with limestone, that isn't? that doesn't make sense to me. grinding the rock into a powder somehow makes it no longer organic(?)

what about fossilized guano?

I think you are using the word 'organic' when you really mean 'biodynamic'


but this is why it took growers forever to come up with a standard definition for 'organic'...

I did actually answer the question.

Everything you just listed is considered organic by me. The problem occurs when man starts to synthesis chemical elements to be used in fertilizers. Like I stated, many of these 'minerals' are extracted through electrolysis. If you wanted to get the rock from a source and have it decomposed into soil (like I stated) then it would be considered organic to me and OMRI.

Below is the potassium carbonate that is in PBP and how it is processed. I do not consider it to be organic because of the processing that is required. It didn't take thousands of years for the mineral to be deposited into the soil be weathering of the parent material (like I stated above).

Today potassium carbonate is prepared commercially by the electrolysis of potassium chloride. The resulting potassium hydroxide is then carbonated using carbon dioxide to form potassium carbonate, which is often used to produce other potassium compounds.

2KOH + CO2 → K2CO3 + H2O

Heres the link to where I cited this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_carbonate

What I've learned from this whole debate is that people will be people and that if they want to use these pseudo-organic fertilizers, its fine. However, I will not say that is organic, after providing sufficient evidence why it is not.

Have a good one Wait

 

[osirica420]

If you prepare pre-stablized compost teas combined with seasalt you shouldn't have too much trouble with your PH..

This is 100% organic ORMI..

There are few EWC, Guano sellers that are ORMI listed and seasalt definitely is..
I am sure you can find some OG molasses somewhere also...

My next run i am using nothing but guano and molasses and seasalt, testing it out
now, just got to get the right mix with a stable PH..


Does something like this float your boat?..everything on that list is og..

OceanGold ThalassaMix BioDynamic Mineral Supply is derived from ethereally blended deep sea water, himalayan crystal salt, humus, silica, yarrow, chamomile, stinging nettle, white oak bark, dandelion, valerian, equisetum tea, stinging nettle tea, and clay.

 

[Harry Gypsna]

gen hydro (europe-dunno about the states) have got their bio sevia which is supposed to be 100% organic, I've been meaning to ask about this stuff

 

[Guest]

I will have to try out the Technafloa Pura Vida soon.... organic hydro, WOW!

 

[Burt]

for organic hydro-wicking type set-up will be your best friend
keep the tea mix frothy with the use of fish tank wands and the pots just sit right in the reservoir with the solution topped 2"-4" above the wands ( bubbler )
what is the benefit here?
well-what i found was that i could grow ridiculously potent, AAA quality organic nugs by simply using readily available ( cheap ) organic nutirients and utilize top-dressing as well
the organic brew consisted of maxicrop, bat guano, bone meal and worm castings-it would even get truly disgusting after a week or two-the funny thing is-the plants thrived in this environment-kinda like a super oxygenated, composting wetlands if you will-i would go back to this system in a heartbeat-however, roomates do not appreciate the "wildness" of it
the wicks were just pieces of felt cut to lenth and placed in the bottom of the planters
this mated the best of both worlds in my experience-truly grade A all the way and i never had to F with PH, or water temps either-the temps in the room would easily reach 100 in the summertime-yet no root rot to speak of-the tea is sooo dark that the bacteria don't have enough light to multiply-at least not the evil ones the roots in the solution maintinaed their integrity-no slime
anyway-some food for thought

 

[sunnyside]

f maintinaed their integrity-no slime

speaking of maintaining integrity and no slime...

sustainable plant nutrition aka higrocorp aka agrowchem aka Nature Nectar was busted with a million dollar meth lab in the same facility they made NN...

http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=993584

byproducts of meth are horrible...and could be in anything manufactured at that facility. If you have any NN I would throw it out immediately!

 

[Harry Gypsna]

speaking of maintaining integrity and no slime...

sustainable plant nutrition aka higrocorp aka agrowchem aka Nature Nectar was busted with a million dollar meth lab in the same facility they made NN...

http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=993584

byproducts of meth are horrible...and could be in anything manufactured at that facility. If you have any NN I would throw it out immediately!

sheisty fuckers...
can you say "front business"... a nutrient and growth reg company is a perfect cover for those sorts of things if you think about it...gives a legitimate reason to be having all kinds of chemicals that could be precursors for all sorts of shit
id repeat what sunny says...any of their gear youve got-get rid of coz theres some evil fumes and residues come of meth production.... Ive been a reading something about criminal biker gangs in the states lately and it has a bit on meth, saying how theres a method called the "pour and run" coz as soon as the chems combine it makes a poisonous cloud that can burn out ur eyeballs-seriously. Really nasty chems...
get rid of that shit

 

[fisher15]

pour and run...how shady

I actually bought some of the NN shiot a while back but returned it, wasn't what I wanted. Unreal...

 

[Chiefsmokingbud]

There were a number of omri dwc threads back on cannabis world before it's demise. A omri fert to try for dwc would be meta naturals

 

[sunnyside]

chief...you had good results from using meta in a dwc?

 

[Londinium]

I actually found that in my quest for organic hydro nutrients, but I've heard bad reviews. I'll still be willing to try it out at some point. I think I'll have to order it from EU.

I suggest you try BioSevia and Hygrozymes as they work great in sprayers,misters, bubbler's etc(well they work 4 us) but the best solution IMHO is to flood and drain,with some bubbles and feed weaker nutes solution filtered or from seperate rez via misters or other fittings of your choice,with media or just net pots(Best results 4 us with Mapito/Diahydro). It's worked great for us,close to mineral hydro for yield and nice clean flavour,stains took a little longer though,strangely. (will be using again soon in a month or so in space I'm building for my loger flowering strains and will be glad to show results then)
As for Organic?wrong terminology 4 me(impossible under growlights even with soil)
It's called Bio in EU for a reason. Organic means 'Sunshine included' to any Farmer. Not cellars and spare bedrooms. So those growers who wanna be 'Organic' stop pissing about and get some land,greenhouses and sow your seeds. If not and youre happy with the Bio tag like we are then try whats available and make it work with your ingenuity and application. Must be the most mis-used word of the decade. Anyone for bottled Sunshine? JBo

 

[Kr@kEn]

Iguana Juice is a great all in one organic nutrient. And if your water PH is around 5.5-6 like mine, you'll never have to adjust the PH because it's buffered. You don't need any kind of additives either. Just Iguana Juice Grow for veg and Iguana Juice Bloom for flower.
Their new formula is very concentrated to so it's a pretty good value (4x as concentrated as before).
You never really need to go above 1000ppm either. Great stuff, I highly recommend it.

 

[Chiefsmokingbud]

Obviously if you run organic matter in a liquid with air your going to have bacteria. This leads me to believe that there can probably never be a truly organic liquid fertilizer for hydroponics. Mind you it is possible to do organic hydroponics, I have yet to see a uniform system that will produce consistent results.

I have never seen a true hydro organic run ever in my life. I've also never seen an OMRI listed product that I think would work in a system like DWC or NFT.

Does someone actually know of a true organic hydro product?

For the love of god don't say PBP, its not fudging organic and never will be, if it was it wouldn't have calcium carbonate, potassium carbonate and 1 other mineral and would be OMRI listed.

I saw a number of true organic hydros on cannabis world before it shut down. One that comes to mind was by Hurtback. Like i said Meta Naturals would be your choice of nutrient. The main thing that HAS to be established is the beneficial bacteria or you're gonna bomb. Once that is established it's pretty much self regulating as long as you have good air.

Sunny i've only used meta in soil. I did see it used in hydro with good results though. BTW CW had one of the best organic hydro forums back in it's day

 

[gregor_mendel]

Hurtback was the first of the BioBucket pioneers.

He used a mineral nutrient whose name I don't remember.

 

[Kr@kEn]

I saw a number of true organic hydros on cannabis world before it shut down. One that comes to mind was by Hurtback. Like i said Meta Naturals would be your choice of nutrient. The main thing that HAS to be established is the beneficial bacteria or you're gonna bomb. Once that is established it's pretty much self regulating as long as you have good air.

Sunny i've only used meta in soil. I did see it used in hydro with good results though. BTW CW had one of the best organic hydro forums back in it's day

Establishing healthy roots including a healthy microherd with organic nutrients should never be a problem. It's synthetics that produce needy root systems because of the mineral salts being used in synthetic products. Which is why so many additives are needed for healthy plants with synthetic base nutrients. With good organic base nutrients, you shouldn't need additives of any kind. If you need additives, it's a sign that your organic nutrients are not up to par. Try Iguana Juice and you'll never want anything else. Yeah I hate AN corp too, but Iguana Juice is the shit.

 

[gregor_mendel]

It's synthetics that produce needy root systems because of the mineral salts being used in synthetic products

Are you saying your plants don't eat mineral ions?

With good organic base nutrients, you shouldn't need additives of any kind

Mineral nutrients don't need additives either, just needy growers.

 

[gregor_mendel]

What is the guaranteed analysis of Iguana Juice? (if you don't mind, I know it's a pain in the ass to type up) Also net weight and volume.

Does it have an OMRI listing?

 

[Kr@kEn]

Sorry haven't been back to IC in a while.
OMRI? Not sure, 100% Organic it is.

Grow is 3-1-3
It's Fish Base, Krill Extract, Yucca Extract, Kelp Meal, and Alfalfa extract.

Bloom is 4-3-6
Same ingredients just different concentrations for bloom - Fish Base, Krill Extract, Yucca Extract, Kelp Meal, and Alfalfa extract.

One thing to keep in mind too is that many organic nutrients are absorbed differently than with synthetics. So NPK ratios are different as well as how well the plant absorbs micros.
Hope that helps.