Is there a standard of ethics in plant breeding?

[eyesdownchronic]

I think bodhi has a reasonable set of "breeder guidelines." iirc its

-No releasing of f2 seeds unless the line is retired, f3 and f4 selections are ok to release.

-F1 x F1 hybrids are ok for release (questionable imo.)
-No releasing of pre release / testers.

 

[eyesdownchronic]

There are very, very few strains out there now which are -not- genetically based on the work of breeders in the 1970's-1980's. The point for me is whether the current breeder acknowledges that heritage and credits the (sometimes a total guess) original source. Instead we have a flood of pseudo-breeders taking bag seed and claiming all manner of fake heritage.

It should go without saying that credit needs be given where it is due. The level of people renaming strains is disgusting, specifically in corporate cannabis.

 

[regseeds]

If you pay money for seeds then you can do whatever you want with them. Once the breeder releases them to the public for sale, they are free game. That's the blunt truth.

Now I do not support ripping off other people's work, profiting from it, etc. That's just a personal thing. If someone gives me a tester pack, I'm not going to let pollen fly, out of respect for the kind soul who gave them to me. But that's just personal beliefs.

I was given tomato seeds from a gentleman in Russia, he asked I do not share them with anyone else. Heirloom seeds. Well this guy didn't do anything but increase the stock. The genetics had been around for a hundred years. Does he have the right to throw down regulations?? I think not.

Cannabis strains today are built off decades old strains and many breeders going back through the lineage. I don't see how someone crosses a few strains and suddenly becomes in control of it. If that were the case everyone would be asking Sam, Nevil, Shanti permission for everything. Bah

Do what you want but give credit where credit is due, and be a good human being along the way and that's the best ethics get in the cannabis world imo.

You make some fair points but one needs to make a clear distinction between two things.

• Hammurabi law spit handshake, that was the agreement with your tomato seed. Person to Person verbal agreement. Can't take to court

With a entity like a seed business you accept the terms they offer you "terms of sale/purchase". If it's open source great! if it's not and you break the terms, crying wolf in court can't save you. It's fairly simple. Again 90% of seeds sold it's not even worth bringing up the point of IP protection because the shelf life is 12 month or less. So nobody in theory has anything to be worried about

We're in a new market now with legal protection - good & bad. It is what it is

 

[hellfire]

One thing to consider about MTAs and patents is public domain. Most things in public domain are not patentable. If your strain has grandparents from public domain strains I do not see it holding up in court.

Now the brave new world horror show could be someone like Bayer Ag literally marking their name inside the plants genetics via in vitro non-active viral signature. Then turning around and saying its all theirs and any progeny is theirs via pollen marking.

Best way to not have someone steal your shit is to not give them shit. You can't expect honor in a gray area rife with greed.

 

[farmerlion]

Years ago the Sacramento dispensary owner Steve was on 60 Minutes. On the showroom floor there was an incredible amount of option to choose from. Then they showed the vault, there was three tubs of cannabis that they filled every bottle on the floor.

Until growers can sale their own cannabis in an open and free cannabis flee market type environment. The only way to protect your work is to sale cured buds.

The vast majority of ( I hate even using the term breeders) because they're not. Have pages of sold out or not available genetics on their websites or at seed banks.. Their hybrid of a hybrid of a hybrid,,,,cookies this blue dream that, it's all Bullshit Hype and lies..
The reason they are only available as short term opportunities is the sorry sacks of crap don't have or keep mother plants to recreate their work. The amount of breeders you can buy genetics from that they carried 10 ago you can count on one hand.

Ace, CBG, DJ Short, umm err??? I'm sure there is a few more....90% of the genetics out there are rehashed garbage. This isn't an exact analogy but you understand my point I'm trying to make.

Don't support the hyped crap that's only there to steel your money. It doesn't take a lot of studying and experience to grow better cannabis than a dispensary will sale you. Do some research before you buy genetics or bud.
. If you have no desire to experience true quality and are just a follower wanting to get high and believe every line of stoner MOJO you are told? Please forget you read this.

In the end you and I aren't going to change the dishonest people in the cannabis industry, but you don't have to support them!!!!!!!
In the coming months I will be sharing the most cutting edge cannabis growing system that is founded and based on decades of doctoral research and my acclimated refinements.
. You will save money not buying herbicides, pesticides or growth hormones. Having healthier, larger more phenotypic expressive plants.. Indoors. Outdoors or corporate growing. It can be done better and for the sake of the people being poisoned with chemicals and lied to about the effectiveness of flushing.

I'm not going to intentionally expose every lie or liar, but I will show and explain every simple truth. I will back it up with a fully documented grow through harvest.
Peace farmerlion

 

[f-e]

The idea you can sell seeds for 10$ each, then control what people do with them, sounds like dealing with a wife.

You can buy seeds with 1000 years of development work. Trials the size of a state. Lab testing and reporting. Guaranteed germination rates and a solid expectancy of the plants performance under any weather or fertiliser conditions you are known to have. With catalogued resistance to pests and sprays. They are not 50$ a pack though. They are 50$ an acre.

At the prices we pay, the supplier has been paid.




I accept that making seeds needs to reflect what could of been made growing bud. The highest cost, is growing bud where the cost could be jail. There, a bud could be 10g or 100 seeds. So what are seeds worth. All the story telling in the world can't make a seed worth what we pay. As people are saying, the latest buzz strain is generally found and produced for a short time before it drifts away. You can't have a breeding program behind that. There isn't time. Many people are just struggling to stop things drifting, not working to improve them. Look at the C99 thread. It's gone. It's a legendary strain, as in there isn't any. All the breeders in the world couldn't keep it going.
The Cheese story is clear. World standard production, that was a cutting taken in and crossed with whatever was to hand when another batch of seeds was needed.
Skunk #1, where it all started. Still isn't stabilised. We buy the seeds, pheno-hunted from millions, so that we can pheno-hunt them ourselves.

I hope the state of play in the US changes pricing. The risks have gone and the sales volume required to make a living, is easier to reach. Like any other high value product, I welcome big names getting involved. If it were a TV, we would be happy to pay Sony or Samsung and not expect to copy it.

 

[goingrey]

Look at the C99 thread. It's gone. It's a legendary strain, as in there isn't any. All the breeders in the world couldn't keep it going.

Your point is a good one and valid for many strains. But Brothers Grimm is back in business and selling the original Cinderella 99.

 

[f-e]

Your point is a good one and valid for many strains. But Brothers Grimm is back in business and selling the original Cinderella 99.

Well I didn't see that coming

Imagine sitting on something like that and not releasing any for all this time. The website is owned by MrSoul so looks legit. Perhaps he stepped out to be a public speaker and is back now it's legal. Fingers crossed it's not drifted much. It may even of been frozen. Or could live on just in name..