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is there a dif between stress induces herms and genetic herms?

hopleaf

hopleaf

Member
i'm currently growing an arjan's haze #3 and i'm about 3 weeks into flower when i noticed balls. i'm growing out of fresh bio-bizz light mix and using bio-bizz nutes and suppliments. have never had a problem with my feedings in the past, and i haven't changed a thing other than tweek it a little for each strain. there are absolutly no light leaks in my room and the light schedule is consistant. the plant look very heathy and has not been under any stress what so ever. i have never had a hermie before and i was just wondering if it is possible to tell the difference between a hermie caused by stress and one that is just geneticlly hermie? mine has balls at every flowering site. i've been having some crapp luck lately, and since i can only do up to one flowering pants at a time it's a pain. i've spent the last 6 months getting nothing but males, and i finally though i had a good female. guess it's time to start all over again... at this pace i might find a good mother by the time i'm 50.
 
resin_lung

resin_lung

I cough up honey oil
Veteran
I believe that every thing is genetic and inherited. Whether stress or environment triggers it or not. If it wasn't in the genes it wouldn't happen. I could be wrong though.
 
hopleaf

hopleaf

Member
i hear that. any suggestions for hermie resistant strains. i know c99 is herie free pretty much, but are there any other stable strains like it?
 
HempAlchemist

HempAlchemist

Member
resin_lung said:
I believe that every thing is genetic and inherited. Whether stress or environment triggers it or not. If it wasn't in the genes it wouldn't happen. I could be wrong though.
Click to expand...

:yeahthats

totally agree. genetics are the starting point of everything. very little is know about inter-sex genetics, do to the legal status. But to put it simply, if you think of genes there is a phenotype (what is expressed) and a genotype (not expressed but there). Some genes have a dominate/recessive nature where only one gene will be expressed. An example of this is eye color. Other genes have whats called co-dominance and will express themselves in unpredictable ways.

to put it short i believe that the genes for inter-sex have a co-dominance relationship and thats why we see so many differences in hermi phenotypes and genotypes
 
hopleaf

hopleaf

Member
wow i thats a great answere. i think i'm starting to understand how hermies work. let me get this strait... pretty much every plant or strain has the genotype that could possibly show itself do to stress or other reasons at anytime? also that some strains just have going hermie in their phenotypes?
 
HempAlchemist

HempAlchemist

Member
that is a very simplified answer to a very complex one. I didnt want to go into much more detail because i might lose a lot of people, and i would need to copy my biology book lol. I wouldnt say all plants have the genotype, but the problem is that we dont have any real way to tell which ones do and dont. So breeders end up trying to breed out the phenotype for hermies, but may not be breeding out the genotype. so its possible to have plants that dont express hermies under normal conditions, but might express it under the right stress. plants that express hermie traits should not be allowed to breed even if it only makes 1 male flower.

are all of your seeds from the same breeder? maybe the breeder had a genotype hermie that he/she isnt aware of...
 
hopleaf

hopleaf

Member
i actually was given them to me by a friend who after talking to him a couple days ago tells me the beans he gave me came from a hermie plant. i find it strange tho becuase i've had a couple male from his beans, and correct me if i'm wrong. but don't seeds that come from a hermie plants rarely carry male genes?
 
S

smokeymacpot

Active member
Veteran
imo theres a big difference between a plant that hermi's under normal conditions and one that hermis after being stressed. the former you should get rid of when your done with it and the latter is safe to keep.
 
1

10k

burnt out og'er
Veteran
This topic is better off in the strains and hybrids forum, not the infirmary so I'm going to move it there.

smokeymacpot said:
imo theres a big difference between a plant that hermi's under normal conditions and one that hermis after being stressed. the former you should get rid of when your done with it and the latter is safe to keep.
Click to expand...

Imnsho,
If the plant has the hermi tendencies in it's recessive genes, then is there really any difference between it herm'ing under normal conditions vs stressed conditions ?

What..."safe to keep" ?
I'd want to get rid of it regardless of whether it's a stressed herm or a late nanner throwing biatch.
What good is running a plant you know will toss the nanner just when the buds are getting nice.
Or said another way...do you really want to have a plant around that you know is likely to toss up a male flower late in the game and mess up your sensimillia

I believe the answer is NOPE.

Curious related trivia...
There used to be a rather famous plant back in the day called DAB. It was a real sweatheart, but it tossed the occasional late nanner, or so I was told by folks who grew it out. Those growers didn't mind the late nanners because it was such kind dank bud'age. The breeder of said plant is very concerned about the gene pool during several heated discussions...What a conundrum that must have been ehh cough cough.

To the thread starter...
Please don't confuse a recessive gene carrying herm that goes full hermi because of stress with the chemically induced sex reversal of otherwise female plants used for female seed production.

arrgh... Like I might have just done...
Lets leave it to the pro breeders in strains and hybrids
 
HeD333

HeD333

Active member
10k said:
Imnsho,
If the plant has the hermi tendencies in it's recessive genes, then is there really any difference between it herm'ing under normal conditions vs stressed conditions ?
No
Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree-
My viewpoint is as follows- It's a risk v reward equation. IF there were a mother who herm'd out under stressed conditions, but had traits that were so unique and desireable that I didn't believe they could be selected in a different line, or were so rare they would be unlikely to reproduce in the progeny, etc etc... I would keep that mother and run her carefully, as needed. However, if that plant could just flip and throw bananas for no reason at all, theres no point in keeping any part of those genes, as they're uncontrollable- throwing your risk v reward curve WAY out of whack.

Just my 2 cents; I definitely understand the school of thought behind "Cull anything that throws bananas, EVER"
 
S

smokeymacpot

Active member
Veteran
10k said:
This topic is better off in the strains and hybrids forum, not the infirmary so I'm going to move it there.



Imnsho,
If the plant has the hermi tendencies in it's recessive genes, then is there really any difference between it herm'ing under normal conditions vs stressed conditions ?

What..."safe to keep" ?
I'd want to get rid of it regardless of whether it's a stressed herm or a late nanner throwing biatch.
What good is running a plant you know will toss the nanner just when the buds are getting nice.
Or said another way...do you really want to have a plant around that you know is likely to toss up a male flower late in the game and mess up your sensimillia

I believe the answer is NOPE.

Curious related trivia...
There used to be a rather famous plant back in the day called DAB. It was a real sweatheart, but it tossed the occasional late nanner, or so I was told by folks who grew it out. Those growers didn't mind the late nanners because it was such kind dank bud'age. The breeder of said plant is very concerned about the gene pool during several heated discussions...What a conundrum that must have been ehh cough cough.

To the thread starter...
Please don't confuse a recessive gene carrying herm that goes full hermi because of stress with the chemically induced sex reversal of otherwise female plants used for female seed production.

arrgh... Like I might have just done...
Lets leave it to the pro breeders in strains and hybrids
Click to expand...

i see both sides to it, ofc it would be better to have a plant that throws no balls or nanas ever. but say you find an amazing pheno, it smells lovely, you could almost flower it with no carbon filter, its so frosty and it puts you on your arse after a single joint. but it may throw a single nana in normal conditions or throws a few balls if stressed, is it worth getting rid and never finding anything close to it or should you keep it since it never herms badly.
i chose to keep and i have one that is just like i described above, i dont get fully seeded buds in fact i rarely get a seed at all.
imo you should only bin those plants that show a significant amount of balls/nanas throughout the flowering period and keep the ones that only show the odd and usually unviable nana.
 
X

Xtensity

Member
I think part of genetic hermies have to do with Epigenetics. Genetics can change based on the markers that are created as the seed is being produced. Epigenetics is one of the main things which provides somewhat of a haste in evolution. It's what allows plants to quickly adapt to their environment through generations.

I think the hermaphroditic stressing has some correlation with this. Hermy genetics are generated as a result of stress. They are quite literally, a product of evolution. Epigenetics being the way plants adapt their offsprings in comparison to the stress the parents experienced in life. There's studies shown that children of holocaust survivors were smaller in overall bonestructure etc, weakened genetically. Though while enough stress may genetically weaken the offspring, the genetic changes are so they can best live in the environment which they were stressed; in that case it would have been the harsh conditions of concentration camps. In definition, hermy plants are not genetic mistakes. The plants get stressed in certain ways so they adapt their genetic code within their offspring to be better suited for whatever stresses the parents encountered.

Hermy genes are quite literally a product of evolutionary stress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Hh7b3Nxxc

edit: If a plant is in an environment where there is not enough food/nutrients to grow fully, it will adapt and offspring will be smaller most likely. This reduction in size is so the offspring can live fully healthy in terms with the nutrients in the environment. If you overload them with food, inevitably, the plants offsprings will overtime (generation through generation) increase in size. While the plants being overloaded with food may stress and be burned, the offspring will genetically adapt overtime to such large amounts of food being provided.

No matter how minor the stress, the plants will adapt to it. The longer a strain is grown, say in a certain outdoor environment, the strain will overtime become better suited for the environment, assuming seeds are being taken from that plant. It's evolution :p.

@resin_lung
Things not in the genes CAN come from nowhere. Whatever triggers purple in leaves can be triggered in non-purple strains, only if we know what triggered the purple in the stains that naturally obtained it.
 
hopleaf

hopleaf

Member
wouldn't a plant that doesn't throw balls always be better than one that does? what i mean is isn't a plant that throws balls a weaker pheno than one that doesn't?
 
englishrick

englishrick

Plumber/Builder
Mentor
ICMag Donor
Veteran
hay guys

to my knolage; the ability to call a species diotious comes from the developement of sex specific chromozones, sex-specific chromozones have developed in all cannabis, "so i believe" so maybe the word hemaphrodite is simply redundant to us

maybe its best we start using the words "intersexed traits"

11083Picture_131.png
 
D

Dalaihempy

There is a large difference between a hermaphrodites and a plant that under stress produces male flower a real hermaphrodites will show up at sex under any condition from optimum grow conditions to harsh conditions.

Were a female plant put under stress can show male flower threw any stage of flowering and the volume of male flowers can very from a few to all over the flowering plant so that is a big difference.
 
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