Is Organic Cheaper

[AllMotor]

Whats up everyone... Im a new icmag member, but been bouncin back n forth from here and the other forum I am a member of... i seem to like this one better...theres a lot more stuff...

I sent off my application to become a cardholder like three weeks ago and been getn down with my growroom... here is what i have, its 4x3.5x4... i plan to LST... i still need a light gonna go either 400 or 600mh/hps...

my question is, because i am very tight on money at the moment, is organic cheaper than using like fox farm trio...i kind of wanted to go that route, but if organic is cheaper than, why the hell not.... If so, what soil would u guys recommend for a 1st timer...done a lot of research, but still cant come to a conclussion... I would like to start off w/clones... if that matters, gotta find a generis fello to help me w/that... And thanks in advance...

 

[jaykush]

as i have said before, organics can be as cheap or as expensive as you want. its all on how and what you use. buying bags of organic soil and pre boxed organic nutrients isnt going to save you any money. homemade compost and a bit of ingenuity will get you far. for example last year i grew a little over 3 lbs for about 10$.

 

[AllMotor]

as i have said before, organics can be as cheap or as expensive as you want. its all on how and what you use. buying bags of organic soil and pre boxed organic nutrients isnt going to save you any money. homemade compost and a bit of ingenuity will get you far. for example last year i grew a little over 3 lbs for about 10$.

Sorry bro, another beginner, dont quite know what its gonna take to "homade compost and ingenuity." ears open... i aint one of those noobs askin to answer all my questions, just a "Leg Up" with getn my green on...

 

[blwd67]

It's cheaper if you want to take the time and put in the effort to make your own teas and soils and stuff but I think it is more expensive if you just buy mutes at the shop and like treat it like hydro. Compost is a great way to build homemade soils and Supply nutrients and beneficial microbes to your soil medium. I think the ingenuity is just being able to step away from the pH pens, pumps and schedules, and move towards the things we find working in nature.

So yeah I think it can be really cheap. Like pretty much free if you want.

 

[NUG-JUG]

Try making a soil mix of your own. It will be better and cheaper than any pre-bagged stuff. I think of it in cooking terms. Fox Farm is like organic growing in a can. Bland, expensive, but works o.k..



Why not whip up your own with better ingredients?

 

[AllMotor]

Like what? thats where im stuck....

 

[darwinsbulldog]

suss out the organic soil mix thread. the stuff i use is this ratio

40% - organic soil or peat/spagnum moss or coconut (whatever really)
30% - 5in1 fert mix (product from aus, blood n bone, seaweed, mushroom, sheep poo, etc etc etc)
25% - perlite/vermiculite
5% - dolomite (2tbs/gallon)

it's worked well for me. but yeah you just need to fiddle around with your ratios until you find something you like.

all i use on top of that with watering is diluted Seasol (seaweed/fish emulsion ferts $8 from hardware store) 1cap/bucket of water = weak, 2caps = medium (when you start flowering) and maybe 3caps if you think the plants can handle it in flowering. (1cap = ~10ml, bucket = ~2.5gallons or 10L)

so far this easy recipe and seasol mixed in with the water has worked a treat and even at weak conc in the waterings they plants have LOVED it and are the greenest and healthiest i've ever had (compared with chem nutes i've used in the past).

so if i were i'd just keep it as simple as possible for your first grow. use those 4 ingredients in ratio similar to what i've stated (don't go overboard with ferts added to the soil keep it 20-30% unless you know the plants can handle more, and add more in your watering if they need it), use the seasol and just bump up the nutes if the plants look like they could use more.

you can make your own ferts to add to the soil by using compost (but it takes time to create the compost if you haven't got started on it already). you just take all your organic food scraps, put them in a compost bin with a lid so it doesn't get wet, and so it stays warm, and after a month or two it will have broken down nicely as you keep adding to it, churn it up etc, and you can add that to future soil mixes.

you can also make teas (to replace the seasol in your water) by putting compost in a big water tank for it to break down for a few weeks, or you can take ferts from the hardware store (ie. 5in1 ferts for me) and put a gallon or two of it in a pillow case and soak that in the bucket of water for a few days and that will release many nutes into the water, then use that to water your plants. so it all depends, the sky's the limit. i'd just get some seaweed/fish emulsion organic nutes to start with (you can make compost/organic teas while you're growing your first lot and use it at a later date). make that soil up and go for it!

one other thing you may want to invest in, is pH up or down, get a tester and examine your tap water (or wahtever water you're using on your plants) and if the pH is outside of 6.4-7ph you will want to adjust (best is 6.8). by doing this with the water it'll keep the soil at the right pH so the plants get the best nute uptake possible (if it goes lower or higher ph wise you can get nute lockout and the plants will suffer) i've had this before. ayway sorry for blasting you with all that. i hope it helps if you've any questions just ask me mate

darwin

 

[AllMotor]

just what i was watin for someone to tell me so i can get an idea of what to ask for when i go to the grow shop...thanks bro... now gotta find out where to get starters/clones to put in it... but as soon as i do i will make sure to update my progress...

 

[darwinsbulldog]

no sweat mate, also be sure to look for some jiffy pellets, they're awesome for starting seeds off in

 

[habeeb]

just buy some bagged soil. FFOF or the new roots. add some lime to it, about 1 tbsp per gallon more. add some more perlite and add some earth worm castings if you want.

I would just buy a bottled "organic nute" , biocanna, biobizz, general organics.... .....


keep it simple, and you dont need more then a bottle of grow and bloom, everything else is extra


as jay said, you can do cheap or do super expensive, its up to you.. Im at super expensive, but it works for me

 

[VerdantGreen]

Allmotor read the 'organics for beginners' sticky - that has some great simple and cheep soil mixes. and read around the forum as there is lots of info there. if you have the time then organics can cost next to nothing as mentioned. al the info you need is here you just have to do your homework

suss out the organic soil mix thread. the stuff i use is this ratio



40% - organic soil or peat/spagnum moss or coconut (whatever really)
30% - 5in1 fert mix (product from aus, blood n bone, seaweed, mushroom, sheep poo, etc etc etc)
25% - perlite/vermiculite
5% - dolomite (2tbs/gallon)
........

hey darwin, nice post , but 5% dolomite is way out. 2tbs per gallon works out to 0.65% (30ml/4544ml)

VG

 

[pseudopod]

So far my costs have been nominally lower, but most of the savings are seen after a few grows of recycled soil. The biggest difference I have seen is in quality. I made a batch of LC's mix #1 (mostly peat with a little coco) and some #3 perlite and biochar mixed in. When I compare it to Roots Organic 707, it's so much nicer there's no comparison, really.

I like to have control over the stuff that goes into my mix. Yes, it's another variable to tackle, but at least I know what's really in there if I need to make adjustments. You're going to save money if you buy nutes like blood/bone/alfalfa meals, kelp, and molasses over overpriced prepackaged hydro store feeds, but the freedom you get by not being beholden to the nute companies is priceless.

If you haven't bought a reflector/light yet, I'd recommend splurging on a Magnum XXXL and either a 600/1000 watt HPS. That would be perfect for your cab!

 

[Iron_Lion]

Here is enough organic ferts to easily grow 10LBs of bud for under 30 bucks

http://www.kalyx.com/store/proddetail.cfm/ItemID/897031/CategoryID/12000/SubCatID/2795/file.htm

 

[Nicoli]

From what i've experienced....

From what i've experienced....

My grow is cheap as hell. I use the earth juice line and pro-mix HP. I know you could go way cheaper, but to me.. it's bare bones. My nutes are very cheap, the soil is average cost I guess once you add in the amendments, but it works so well its hard to switch.

The easiest soil mix ever(from the Organics for Beginners thread stickied at the top):

LC's Soiless Mix #2:
6 parts Pro Mix BX or HP / Sunshine Mix (any flavor from #1 up) / Fox Farm Ocean Forest or Light Warrior
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
Powdered (NOT PELLETIZED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
If you use a 3 qt. saucepan as “parts” in the amounts given above, it equals about 1 cu. ft. of soiless mix and you can just dump in a cup of powdered dolomite lime.
But, a "part" can be anything from a tablespoon to a five gallon bucket. Just use the same item for all of the "parts".

Now for the plants organic food source
RECIPE #1
If you want to use organic nutes like blood, bone and kelp...
Dry Ferts:
1 tablespoon blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
(OPTIONAL) 1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.
Mix all the dry ferts into the soiless mix well and wet it, but don't soak it with Liquid Karma and water @ 1 tbs./gal. Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two so the bacteria can get oxygen and break down the bone meal and make it available. And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed. It'll also have time to get the humic acids in the Liquid Karma going and the dolomite lime will be better able to adjust the pH of a peat based mixture too.
With this recipe, all you need to do is add plain water until harvest.
When I'm working with seeds, I punch a hole in the bottom of 16 ounce cups and fill them with plain LC's Mix. Lightly wet the mix in the cups and germ one seed in each cup. At the same time I mix enough LC's mix along with the blood/bone/kelp to fill all the 3 gallon flower pots I'm going to use for the grow. After about two weeks, the seedlings and the blood/bone/kelp mix are ready. I transplant the seedlings into the 3 gallon pots and just add water until harvest.
When you go to flower and pull up the males, save the mix in the pots. It is ready to be used again immediately. Just remove the root ball and transplant another seedling into it.

It works. EVERYTIME!

 

[VerdantGreen]

yeah if you really want to save money then buy as many of your supplies as possible from farm stores/wholesalers and garden centers rather than a hydro store.

 

[Batboy]

The easiest soil mix ever(from the Organics for Beginners thread stickied at the top):

LC's Soiless Mix #2:
6 parts Pro Mix BX or HP / Sunshine Mix (any flavor from #1 up) / Fox Farm Ocean Forest or Light Warrior
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
Powdered (NOT PELLETIZED) dolomite lime @ 2 tablespoons per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of the soiless mix.
If you use a 3 qt. saucepan as “parts” in the amounts given above, it equals about 1 cu. ft. of soiless mix and you can just dump in a cup of powdered dolomite lime.
But, a "part" can be anything from a tablespoon to a five gallon bucket. Just use the same item for all of the "parts".

Now for the plants organic food source
RECIPE #1
If you want to use organic nutes like blood, bone and kelp...
Dry Ferts:
1 tablespoon blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix or Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract as directed
(OPTIONAL) 1 tablespoon per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of Jersey Greensand to supplement the K (potasium) in the Kelp Meal and seaweed extract.
Mix all the dry ferts into the soiless mix well and wet it, but don't soak it with Liquid Karma and water @ 1 tbs./gal. Stir and mix it a few times a week for a week or two so the bacteria can get oxygen and break down the bone meal and make it available. And don't let the mix dry out, keep it moist and add water as needed.
When you go to flower and pull up the males, save the mix in the pots. It is ready to be used again immediately. Just remove the root ball and transplant another seedling into it.

It works. EVERYTIME!

This is probably the best advice for an easy newbie grow. That and read the 'Organics for Beginners' stickied thread. If you spend any time on this board, you will see more newbies killing their plants with too much love: too many nutes, too much water, too much involvement. This recipe takes the newbie guesswork out of it and makes it harder to kill your babies.

The beauty behind using LC #2 and Recipe #1 is that it has the necessities to take you from start to finish without adding many supplements. Depending on your strains, depending on how long you veg, depending on the size of your pots and how many times you transplant, you could concievably do nothing but water your plants and never add a thing to the soil and finish with a killer harvest. I would recommend having on hand some liquid organic nutes in case the dry mix isn't enough (check out Neptunes Harvest 5-1-1 for veg, 2-3-1 for flower), but even if you do shell out the money for these nutes, you can use them sparingly and make them last a loooong time, because your dry mix will handle the majority of the feeding.

Finally, I use Liquid Karma even though I'm not really sure what it does. This is probably the first thing that I'd cut from the above recipe (if $$ was an issue), because the stuff is damn expensive.

 

[pseudopod]

Yeah, I haven't convinced myself to plunk down the cash for LK yet. I use kelp and EWC so I try to keep my bases covered there. I'd spend the money if I saw a real reason to, but otherwise I try not to believe the hype.

 

[NUG-JUG]

The beauty behind using LC #2 and Recipe #1 is that it has the necessities to take you from start to finish without adding many supplements. Depending on your strains, depending on how long you veg, depending on the size of your pots and how many times you transplant, you could concievably do nothing but water your plants and never add a thing to the soil and finish with a killer harvest. I would recommend having on hand some liquid organic nutes in case the dry mix isn't enough (check out Neptunes Harvest 5-1-1 for veg, 2-3-1 for flower), but even if you do shell out the money for these nutes, you can use them sparingly and make them last a loooong time, because your dry mix will handle the majority of the feeding.

Finally, I use Liquid Karma even though I'm not really sure what it does. This is probably the first thing that I'd cut from the above recipe (if $$ was an issue), because the stuff is damn expensive.

Some heavy eaters need fed a little bit with that mix, but your right for the most part just de-chlorinated water is all you need. I see some new organic growers use too much of everything (molasses, guanos etc.) the soil takes it fine with only slight harm, but the $$$ being wasted is worse. Like batboy said you can use them very sparingly. I think a bottle of fish fertilizer and some blackstrap molasses can be added (in the right amounts) to compost teas 100+ times until you're out..teas can be diluted for foliar spraying 20:1, and even diluted for watering if you make it good the first time.

 

[ibjamming]

Inside a house...I'd go hydro, something simple, a Hempy bucket maybe. Outside, organic. I don't think organic belongs indoors...it's just me.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

 

[NUG-JUG]

I don't think organic belongs indoors...it's just me.

Because it's dirty? lol use a broom\vacuum

Mix soil outside, use drip trays.

Everyone should take all their house plants and put them outside..right now! Especially if they're in organic soil. Dirty, dirty,