Is low potency a recessive trait?

[Guest]

I'm Trying to Understand

I'm Trying to Understand

The breeding scheme Sam suggested:
P1 = Early High THC variety A
P2 = Early High THC variety B
P3 = Wild Northern Acclimated variety

P1 x P2 = F1 (Early High TCH hybrid)
F1 x P3 = f1 generation polyhybrid
f1 x f1 = f2 generation polyhybrid

Mendelian inheritance would predict the F1 Early High TCH hybrid to be fairly uniform in population. The f1 generation of the three way hybrid would be fairly uniform also, though a bit less than the F1 hybrid. That's why Sam advised open pollination with as large a population as possible with these generations, with the real selection work beginning in the f2 generation where the greatest differentiation between pheno/genotype will show up.

correct me if I misrepresented anything, Sam

I always thought mixing 2 stablelized strains was the way to go, but ive notice this strategy of mixing 3 strains is quite common tho i still don't understnd it

Thanx ahead of time to any of you that answer or try to explain this for me..



LBM

 

[bubbl3r]

The above comment just further proves your agenda here: to hear/see yourself speak/type.... Honestly, we're trying to Argue/Debate pretty simple biological processes with someone who didn't even understand that I was asking Rhetorical Questions. I mean they DID teach this stuff in High School Biology 10 years ago

And to add: We've been on IC Mag for the same length of time...... All my original pics are still in my gallery. Try LYING to someone who doesn't have SOLID info to debate your claims. So when/where did they move YOUR pics, cause if that did happen I'm certain the membership here would have been up in arms so to speak......

I never said I lost any pictures. I said I noticed that the server had moved, thought it suspicious, so deleted all my pics..I didn't have that many anyway...my avatar was one.


Bubbl3r

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

on the question of potency, in particular this sentence:

"The high frequency of BT in the feral biotype of C. indica suggests that this allele may have been present at high frequency in the C. indica gene pool prior to domestication."

GH - you put a lot of weight on the word "suggest" there being mild, but it seems to me that he's making quite a strong suggestion

Well, the way the word is being used, and what I was comment to, is where it is stated that "the high frequency" is doing the suggesting... and as it was pointed out by Sam, that's not the only conclusion it suggest, just the author's interpretation...

...on the face of it, it would seem that the most plausible explanation for feral populations of C. indica having a high frequency of potent plants would be that these "wild" populations are ultimately escaped cultivars

but equally I think it could be possible to underestimate the natural tendency of the indica (following the Hillig definition of indica) part of the Cannabis genepool to be potent...

I don't think it's going too far to say that Hillig is saying C. indica is naturally potent, prior to mankind's intervention...

Like I said... Obviously there was some potency, or man would have never had potent plants to select seed from so the frequency of potent plants in the gene pool could increase...

What is the more interesting to me is that in this chart A parent which produces 2% TCH bred to a parent which produced 1% CBD and produced progeny with around 2.5% THC and 4% CBD... and the progeny of that plant produced plants which produced up to nearly 9% THC or CBD and plants with a combined THC/CBD of around 6%...

To continue out the model... What happens when the grandchildren are bred... Say a plant with 9%THC and a plant with 9% CBD used from that generation... Progeny with 10% TCH and 20% CBD? What when that heterozygous generation is F4'd? Individuals with even higher TCH production? 15%TCH plants? 15% CBD plants?

Absolutely plants in the wild have some potency!
Absolutely hybridization and selection increases potency.

 

[barletta]

As I read the other responses I'm thinking why do they bother... then I find myself posting.

That's AWESOME!!! Can I borrow it? Not Necessarily for this thread, necessarily.

 

[bubbl3r]

I don't know why I keep looking but I do.

Maybe this "original" ancestor of the cannabis we know today was placed on earth along with adam and eve.

What is more likely is that it slowly evolved from some other plant, there was diversity within its genome to begin with and for some reason the original plant it evolved from either went extinct or they both changed and evolved in such different ways that the similarities/ relationship between the two is almost unrecognizable today.

Some of your "theories," which are really just hypothesis because they have no experimentation that support them, seem to be that suddenly there was just this new plant that some higher being placed on earth. It was perfect in every way and it had no variation. The variation resulted form interference by man and mutations. Odds are it wouldn't be around today if that was the way it started.

As to hermaphrodites they have their place in a Cannabis population. They're obviously there because they allowed the species to survive for as long as it has but it seems to work best at lower frequencies. Sure man can increase or decrease these frequencies via breeding...

where the hell am I going with this? As I read the other responses I'm thinking why do they bother... then I find myself posting.

Thats right Suzy, think about what all the breeders say and do. They are constantly trying to eliminate by selection, unwanted inherited traits, like low potency, hermies/intersex traits and variants. They often talk about desireable true breeding strains, with high potency and quality of high.

Then it freaks them out, to think that there used to be such a plant....WHY?

Then I hear arguments like, if highly potent plants were left in the wild, they would eventually go low in potency....errr HELLO!!!....HELLO!!!...any body in there?

They just make the mistake, of thinking it's "reverting back" to low potency, that's all. It would be easy, even in a "favourable" indoor environment, to demonstrate how high potency plants could go low in potency, with just a few decades of inbreeding.

The common mistake is thinking you some how get something for nothing, when you blend a few genes together. What you get is variation based on a similar theme, and of course it's trade off.




Bubbl3r

 

[3dDream]

Marijuana and people share a common ancestor. This is why marijuana makes chemicals that are similar to things naturally found in the brain. Either that or the lizard people had something to do with it.

 

[bubbl3r]

Well, the way the word is being used, and what I was comment to, is where it is stated that "the high frequency" is doing the suggesting... and as it was pointed out by Sam, that's not the only conclusion it suggest, just the author's interpretation...
Like I said... Obviously there was some potency, or man would have never had potent plants to select seed from so the frequency of potent plants in the gene pool could increase...

What is the more interesting to me is that in this chart A parent which produces 2% TCH bred to a parent which produced 1% CBD and produced progeny with around 2.5% THC and 4% CBD... and the progeny of that plant produced plants which produced up to nearly 9% THC or CBD and plants with a combined THC/CBD of around 6%...

To continue out the model... What happens when the grandchildren are bred... Say a plant with 9%THC and a plant with 9% CBD used from that generation... Progeny with 10% TCH and 20% CBD? What when that heterozygous generation is F4'd? Individuals with even higher TCH production? 15%TCH plants? 15% CBD plants?

Absolutely plants in the wild have some potency!
Absolutely hybridization and selection increases potency.

You have got this wrong!....plants don't expedentially increase in potency, when you take them to F4,F5,F6,F7 etc etc...On the contrary, they invariably loose both potency and vigor over time.

If that model was followed, and true, the dutch would be on like 75% by now...lmao



Bubbl3r

 

[bubbl3r]

Marijuana and people share a common ancestor. This is why marijuana makes chemicals that are similar to things naturally found in the brain. Either that or the lizard people had something to do with it.

Don't talk about Grat3fulh3ad's ancestors like that!




Bubbl3r

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

You have got this wrong!....plants don't expedentially increase in potency, when you take them to F4,F5,F6,F7 etc etc...On the contrary, they invariably loose both potency and vigor over time.

If that model was followed, and true, the dutch would be on like 75% by now...lmao



Bubbl3r

I never implies that there would be numbers above 15%...
Which can be found in Holland and the US right now...


It's funny how smarmy you get delivering your misinterpretations of what you read... It's funny how you extrapolate on people's remarks to change the meaning completely... You can certainly increase potency every generation (up to a point)...

Sam has actually bred strains through F3,4,5,6,etc and can tell you what actually happens in practice... You can find examples of plants from breeder seed which produce outrageous amounts of thc when compared to their feral cousins... I've seen quotes of 25% or more...

You imagining something to be, is always trumped by practical observation...

You've posted plenty enough to make your level of ignorance clear... continuing to embarrass yourself is not really necessary...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Don't talk about Grat3fulh3ad's ancestors like that!




Bubbl3r

pathetic... can't even insult me properly...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Thats right Suzy, think about what all the breeders say and do. They are constantly trying to eliminate by selection, unwanted inherited traits, like low potency, hermies/intersex traits and variants. They often talk about desireable true breeding strains, with high potency and quality of high.

Then it freaks them out, to think that there used to be such a plant....WHY?

Doesn't freak us out, dumbass... We just have a level of understanding which you seemingly forever will lack, and know there is no possible mechanism by which your assinine ideas could even be possible.

Then I hear arguments like, if highly potent plants were left in the wild, they would eventually go low in potency....errr HELLO!!!....HELLO!!!...any body in there?

Who said that?

They just make the mistake, of thinking it's "reverting back" to low potency, that's all. It would be easy, even in a "favourable" indoor environment, to demonstrate how high potency plants could go low in potency, with just a few decades of inbreeding.

The common mistake is thinking you some how get something for nothing, when you blend a few genes together. What you get is variation based on a similar theme, and of course it's trade off.




Bubbl3r

And you make the mistake you call common... So damn funny to watch you do it too... Only the something you imagine for nothing is nasty recessive traits...

Like any other NUT with a religion they've made up from nothing, the obvious hypocrisy of your position is the undoing of your impossible theory.

How did you evolve such an incredibly thick skull?

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

What's so funny... Is no matter how thoroughly the subject has been covered... and no matter how completely your ideas have been debunked... You still manage to say something so Off the Wall... that those who know better are compelled to post yet again...

That is an astounding talent for idiocy, imho...

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

One thing is for sure... There are alot of the films which we were shown in high school which you seem to desperately need to watch... No not just the "hygiene'' one... I mean the ones from 8th grade life science and 10th grade biology... There are many concepts you obviously just are not grasping...

WTF are they teaching in school nowadays?

 

[imnotcrazy]

WTF are they teaching in school nowadays?

<<< possibly????

 

[ganjalf]

WTF are they teaching in school nowadays?

Intelligent design?

 

[suzycremecheese]

You have got this wrong!....plants don't expedentially increase in potency, when you take them to F4,F5,F6,F7 etc etc...On the contrary, they invariably loose both potency and vigor over time.

I personally know of seed makers that have taken populations to the f7 generation and beyond without any noticeable loss in potency or vigor. No they didn't add any outside genetics. If you maintain the population this isn't a problem. Sure many people believe that excessive inbreeding will ruin cannabis but if you breed with the health of the population in mind and not with the goal of making the next holy grail you will maintain the health of the population and probably find some cuts that stand out to keep along the way.

 

[suzycremecheese]

I can't believe I did it again. I feel guilty.

 

[bubbl3r]

You can find examples of plants from breeder seed which produce outrageous amounts of thc when compared to their feral cousins... I've seen quotes of 25% or more...

Oh no, that's not outrageous, that's terrifying...:-0





Bubbl3r

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

The funniest thing is that Bubbl3r is correct that the first Cannabis was originally supremely potent, but he is wrong about man screwing it up. The first man was supremely intelligent and was in fact perfect until woman came along started the slow decline into the present worlds chaos. So now we know who is responsible what are we going to do about it? I suggest rounding up all the women and sending them into space. That way we can return the earth to it's original perfection, pot that is so potent that if you even look at it or smell it you will turn white and pass out, unless you are one of the supremely intelligent dudes, then you get a mild buzz and go back playing with your pud.... remember all the ladies were shipped off to space.
I want to live in a perfect world, and in my perfect world there is no room for ignorance, ignorance is a recessive trait brought to earth by the bitches, and we need to get rid of them, the faster the better! And any girley-men with those recessive ignorance traits.

I was thinking that I should punish myself for posting off subject in this thread until I realized that in the beginning this thread was perfect, until Bubbl3r posted, then all the recessive posts started popping up and just ruined this thread. What to do? Get rid of all the bitches!!! That includes all the female Cannabis plants, clones, specially all female seeds, it is obvious that they are at the center of the problems, and the world will be perfect once everyone of them is gone. I think.....

-SamS

 

[bubbl3r]

The funniest thing is that Bubbl3r is correct that the first Cannabis was originally supremely potent, but he is wrong about man screwing it up. The first man was supremely intelligent and was in fact perfect until woman came along started the slow decline into the present worlds chaos. So now we know who is responsible what are we going to do about it? I suggest rounding up all the women and sending them into space. That way we can return the earth to it's original perfection, pot that is so potent that if you even look at it or smell it you will turn white and pass out, unless you are one of the supremely intelligent dudes, then you get a mild buzz and go back playing with your pud.... remember all the ladies were shipped off to space.
I want to live in a perfect world, and in my perfect world there is no room for ignorance, ignorance is a recessive trait brought to earth by the bitches, and we need to get rid of them, the faster the better! And any girley-men with those recessive ignorance traits.

I was thinking that I should punish myself for posting off subject in this thread until I realized that in the beginning this thread was perfect, until Bubbl3r posted, then all the recessive posts started popping up and just ruined this thread. What to do? Get rid of all the bitches!!! That includes all the female Cannabis plants, clones, specially all female seeds, it is obvious that they are at the center of the problems, and the world will be perfect once everyone of them is gone. I think.....

-SamS

Well Sam, I haven't revealed the sex of that first plant yet!...and that the Space Bros have still got a cut...lol





Bubbl3r