Is genetic diversity really that important?

[theFLINTSTONERS]

btw . . .

we'd like to give a big tip of our wings to everyone who has participated in this thread . . . we've heard individuals say that there is little real interest in preservation among folks in the cannabis community . . . but the interest and involvement in this thread argues different . . .

this thread was started only two weeks ago . . . but in that short time . . . there have been more than 100 posts . . . and clost to 2000 total views of the thread . . .

this leaves us with guarded optimism that it really might be possible to make a difference . . . given enough interest and enough people willing to take part in some kind of distributative preservation program . . .

danke . . . merci . . . thanks!

 

[DocLeaf]

Doc, I respectfully disagree that potency has always been strongly associated with female plants. In order to breed cannabis of high potency there has to be some use of male plants.

Zam, in reproach,,, the process of selection is based upon utility.

During the earliest stages of proto-farming an initial agricultural focus was placed on the types of plants that produced valuable resource materials (food and fibre) - the products most readily consumed by neolithic farmers via subsistance at the time. i.e. rope farmers seek male plants for working rope, seed farmers seek female plants for producing food-crops, and so on.

A percentage of female plants must always be maintained as "breeding stock", regardless of which resources are being grown/produced. At some point, some 'other' farmers (most likely monks) started to procreate cannabis for the essential oils found within the flowers. The practise of procreating flowers for spiritual and holistic purpose was born someplace in the mountains, from where this art-form passed into the tribes of the lowlands.


Herodotus - Histories

Book 4, Part III 74. 1.

Hemp grows in Scythia: it is very like flax; only that it is a much coarser and taller plant: some grows wild about the country, some is produced by cultivation: the Thracians make garments of it which closely resemble linen; so much so, indeed, that if a person has never seen hemp he is sure to think they are linen, and if he has, unless he is very experienced in such matters, he will not know of which material they are.

The Scythians, as I said, take some of this hemp-seed, and, creeping under the felt coverings, throw it upon the red-hot stones; immediately it smokes, and gives out such a vapour as no Grecian vapour-bath can exceed; the Scyths, delighted, shout for joy, and this vapour serves them instead of a water-bath; for they never by any chance wash their bodies with water. Their women make a mixture of cypress, cedar, and frankincense wood, which they pound into a paste upon a rough piece of stone, adding a little water to it. With this substance, which is of a thick consistency, they plaster their faces all over, and indeed their whole bodies. A sweet odour is thereby imparted to them, and when they take off the plaster on the day following, their skin is clean and glossy.

paz

 

[Evolution]

Some great posts here...I love to hear all your thoughts/ information...keep it coming!


Great post about the evolution of the Bt/Bd alleles...many times organisms contain DNA whose functions appear to be relevant only to ancestor's environments, but our experiments and current knowledge are limited...reminds me of Dawkins selfish gene theory--the genes occupy 'hosts' and evolve over time....very disconcerting and interesting stuff...

So when I think about how both the Bt and Bd alleles occur about equally in the cannabis genepool .

I am trippin on this statement Zam...You got a reference or is this experience talking or ... ?




great references in this thread -Herodotus and the Scythians....major props...did he write about Atlantis also?

assyrians used cannabis in funeral ceremonies if i recall correctly...any info?


major kudos to The Flintstoners--what a cool group and a substantial contribution to the community....wherever we go from here, you have created goodwill and positive actions for me and many others...thanks!

 

[DocLeaf]

The second alternative is that there is some evolutionary advantage to producing cbd thc or both.

Eureka

It is an evolutionary mechanism that deters browsing animals and helps seed dispersal and propagation.

chili peppers have adopted similar methods using their active ingredient capsaicin (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsaicin ).

"Chili peppers are thought to have been domesticated at least five times by prehistoric peoples in different parts of South and North America"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chili_pepper


Plants are much smarter than animals :wink:

 

[zamalito]

It always fascinated me that only a few years after the discovery of the new world when hot peppers had become a permenent fixture in the cuisine of India. They say that humans are the only animals which consume fruits with capsaiscin. However I have a dog who ate all of my cayenne peppers last year. Before that he had broken his leg by jumping off a bridge (long story). He kept chewing on his cast and someone suggested that i put tobasco sauce on it to discourage him. I did and it actually made him chew on it more, lol.

Anyways about function of cannabinoids. Its interesting to note that the endocannabinoids which occur naturally in the nervous systems of humans are thought to be produced as a result of the digestion of fats. Most of the fatty acids that occur in hemp seed have a corresponding endocannabinoid via delta 6 desaturase. For example the dietary source for the body's production of anandamide is omega 3/linoleic acid which composes about 50-55% of hemp seed oil. Oleic acid, linolenic acid and palmytic acid which also occur in hempseed oil are also converted into endocannabinoids. Oleic acid can easily be synthesized into cerebrodeine/oleamide, an endocannabinoid first isolated in the brains of sleep deprived felines and considered to be the main endocannabinoid involved in making you sleep, with the simple addition of a Nitrogen atom at the end of the carbon chain. While the others are typically related to the psychoactive effect inducing cb1 receptor Palmytic acid is typically associated with the cb2 receptor endocannabinoids functioning as antiinflamatories and immune system regulators.

Is this connection where both the seed oils and the oils produced by the resin glands both play very significant roles in mammalian cannabinoid systems a coincidence or does it hint that there is some evolutionary connection between cannabis and cannabinoid receptors? If so did the plant evolve to have the seeds eaten thus ensuring seed dispersal or to discourage consumption thus ensuring dispersal? If the former is true then both the pollen and seeds have evolved means to travel great distances. I don't buy the theory that evolving a means to stimulate the cb1 receptor is an effective deterrent. We all know very well how cannabinoids increase apetite. If anything this would cause animals caught under the spell of thc to consume more seeds, wouldn't it?

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

... I don't buy the theory that evolving a means to stimulate the cb1 receptor is an effective deterrent. We all know very well how cannabinoids increase apetite. If anything this would cause animals caught under the spell of thc to consume more seeds, wouldn't it?

yes zam, that one out of the rest of theories is the weakest...
now, i would put my money on the plant using humans as its carrier
whether hemp, whether drug, it is through man the plant is efficiently able to
travel and expand across the globe.
so the plant adapts according to human need in order to ensure reproduction and survival.


paz

 

[DocLeaf]

Cool stuff Zam

? If so did the plant evolve to have the seeds eaten thus ensuring seed dispersal or to discourage consumption thus ensuring dispersal?

Both Remember, ruminants have several stomachs, while dogs, monkeys, and humans have only one. Cannabinoids may have different effects on different animals. The size and metabolism of a browsing animal also plays a role :wink:

If the former is true then both the pollen and seeds have evolved means to travel great distances.

Many plants rely upon animals as mechanisms of seed dispersal (jays and acorns, monkeys and bananas, goats and cannabis). In many cases this is the only way that seed-lots can travel uphill. New populations then appear in fresh environs.

Likewise, a combination of pheromones and resin aid the dispersal of pollen, by attracting insects to plants. This helps distribute fresh pollen beyond it's own population group; which in turn maintains genetic diversity.

Paz
dLeaf

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

You guys need to remember that plants produce THCA, not very active at all if eaten, it needs to be heated to decarboxalyze and activate the THC.
I also have seen high THC plants covered with resin still attracting insect pests by the thousands.
-SamS

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

You guys need to remember that plants produce THCA, not very active at all if eaten, it needs to be heated to decarboxalyze and activate the THC.
I also have seen high THC plants covered with resin still attracting insect pests by the thousands.
-SamS

I have seen the same thing in regards to the pest.

One question , Sam in regards to the decarboxalyzation... Heating accomplishes it very quickly, but I've also read that over time raw resins will decarboxalyze slowly as they cure. Have you any relevant experiences eating unheated but cured out resins?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

When you first harvest a plant the THC is all THCA, Decarboxylization will happen with time but it is not effective and you should just heat the material to make THC. I would not eat unheated resin.
-SamS

 

[Farmer John]

I have this strange memory that it feels like eating sand, cant be very goodfor anyone and doesnt get me high.

 

[DocLeaf]

You guys need to remember that plants produce THCA, not very active at all if eaten, it needs to be heated to decarboxalyze and activate the THC.

-SamS

bhang lasi isn't heated, is it???

we always thought that resins are released by heat,
but also when mixed with fatty-acids and oils...

peace
dLeaf

 

[Guest]

bhang lasi isn't heated is it???

Hola Bro,

In preparation yes.

Here you go

Peace, hf

* 2 cups water
* 1 ounce marijuana (fresh leaves and flowers of a female plant preferred)
* 4 cups warm milk
* 2 tablespoons blanched and chopped almonds
* 1/8 teaspoon garam masala [a mixture of cloves, cinnamon, and cardamon]
* 1/4 teaspoon powdered ginger
* 1/2 to 1 teaspoon rosewater
* 1 cup sugar

Bring the water to a rapid boil and pour into a clean teapot. Remove any seeds or twigs from the marijuana, add it to the teapot and cover. Let this brew for about 7 minutes. Now strain the water and marijuana through a piece of muslin cloth, collect the water and save. Take the leaves and flowers and squeeze between your hands to extract any liquid that remains. Add this to the water. Place the leaves and flowers in a mortar and add 2 teaspoons warm milk. Slowly but firmly grind the milk and leaves together. Gather up the marijuana and squeeze out as much milk as you can. Repeat this process until you have used about 1/2 cup of milk (about 4 to 5 times). Collect all the milk that has been extracted and place in a bowl. By this time the marijuana will have turned into a pulpy mass. Add the chopped almonds and some more warm milk. Grind this in the mortar until a fine paste is formed. Squeeze this paste and collect the extract as before. Repeat a few more times until all that is left are some fibers and nut meal. Discard the residue. Combine all the liquids that have been collected, including the water the marijuana was brewed in. Add to this the garam masala, dried ginger and rosewater. Add the sugar and remaining milk. Chill, serve, and

enjoy.

 

[DocLeaf]

cool info

so why the need for a copper ring in bang lassi? if the lassi has already been heated that is?


does resin not dissolve into olive oil, butter milk, and yogurt?
is the resin transferred void of THC (i.e. only contains THCA) ?

paz
dLeaf

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

That's pretty much what I thought... I've eaten alot of hash, but always heat well first... I know of people who have a habit of eating raw hash, claiming older cured product to be psychoactive, but have always been dubious enough to warm mine well first...

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

I have eaten unheated hash and I did get a bit stoned, but it was very light weight and quite different from heated hash. Heat the same amount ( 5-10 grams) and I can have trouble walking.

-SamS

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Thanks Sam... that's exactly the sort of experience I was looking for... I'll keep on with the pre-warming ritual...

 

[Farmer John]

I like to use hash for making very creamy hot chocolate, thats how I like to use my butter also and it gets heated just nicely this way and seems to work very well, have tried eating hash as it is, and it has never worked very well, just a slight buzz.

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

greetings everyone,

i think bhang lassi is a general term that applies to any preparation made mainly of cannabis and dairy.
i've seen preparations where the bhang/cannabis was heated and others were the dried/cured flowers were simply crushed and mixed into sweet cool yogourt without heating.

i am not sure i understand a few things though, for example, when we spark it the heat allows for the proper transformation of thca into thc apparently; but when we eat it without heating to allow the transformation; doesn't our digestive system heats it enough while it processes it through the stomach as well as our liver? what other changes does thca/thc suffers when it goes into the blood-stream through the digestive system rather than in smoke form through the lungs?

thank you.

peace.

 

[JimmyEatWorld]

PazVerdeRadical,

When eaten,THC is metabolized into 11-hydroxy-THC in the liver and then through the bloodstream to the brain.This metabolite induces stronger effects than parental THC.