Inbreeding.....the Skill of the Breeder.....

[troutman]

update . the Abducted hybrid is now a stable IBL

Glad you're back.

I was wondering if we would ever see Abducted again.

 

[420empire]

Cool u are back Tazz. Very Nice u continue with abducted, hope u some Dday want to share more knowlegde and maybe abducted? Have a greate new year.

 

[MJPassion]

Nah...
Tazz WAS back until he started an argument with another member here & ran off again.

 

[Tazz11]

LOL how the facts get changed to fit the needs of a few want to bees ...lol, here I found this here on the site posted by mojojojo 03-29-2007


yeah i remember og ...
i wouldnt be where im at today
thats for sure, made some good friends
now its all split up i mean the two og sites were seperate but it worked.
haha remember tazz11 he was a trip to read, chimeras teachings
rez and bogs photos..

then it all went down never really has been the same.
good people still out there though, just harder to find peace ...


I join the Cannabis Edge web site June of 98 , I started growing in 1971 at the age of 11 ,I feel sorry for the other member ,his need to be like the old school when he can not be us till it is his turn ... .. is his problem not mine ...I wanted to often a peaceful out come but you seen what happen .. I don't need BS in my life I am to old school to fall for the drama ...that said the past is the past and yes I have a lot to do . but for the members like mojojojo and other real OG members , here is part of my study on the Abducted 1399 ...


"Abducted 1399"
the strain has now completed its second stage growth cycle into reveg and re-flowering it is now weeks 35 .. yes .. from seed threw veg into 31 days of flowering and then without harvest put back into reveg for 60 more days and then back into flowering ... cycle #2 -flowering day 5 (35 weeks )


the test mother is consuming the buds as she grows into flowering her second time ..I find my self just in AW as I set and look at her .. she has qualities I have never seen any other cannabis strain ...if I grow her to a given say 10 inches and flower her . she will flower different at 15 inches or different at 18 or 21 - or 24 inches . till she reflects her basic Sativa OLR , just totally amazing . for one genetic strain to have so many types of strain traits locked with in ... this time I will flower her to 31 days and then back into re-veg again .. as she grows taller the smell and aroma are so beautiful they change the meaning of breeding IMHO ....the two mothers are reveg-ed and back into flowering at day 5 as their sisters are re-veg-ing ,I have hybrid seed from the only male of 9 plants ,the seed that made these 9 plants was half the size of the normal Sativa seeds .. I got to point I no longer care if the strain is tested I enjoy my art and breeding this strain has tested my skills and how far will I go to unlock the mysteries this strain holds ,it dose not matter what others think of my crazy ideas ... I spend 3 hours lolly popping them ,at times I smell the resin from her fading buds and wonder if I did the right thing but the smell tells me ,, the choice was that of a once blind man looking for the perfect aroma ,some of you old school know what I mean the plants you shake or move and you get a high just from the smell they put off .. a amazing high with a effect most never get the chance to know in the modern markets of cannabis ...so many layers of under tones and so complex she makes the mind dance with pleasure from a passing aroma that just stops you in your tracks ... she the Abducted and the abductress her future is to own the souls of all that lust for her the un reachable breeders private stash years hidden in the long hours of their dance with each other ... I know no better strain in the world or in my life time .. the finest with out question or risk of being wrong ... my hope is to guide her threw a sequence of stages of development and multi re-veg and multi-flowering refine mints life cycle loops trapping her in a time warp where the greats cannabis strain wait to be created ....


they are 7 months old today ... their grow has been harvested and their friends are gone to a smoky grave why their sisters have been split up and are reveg-ing from cut away clones .... I start the timing for my last grow ... I may never finish my work but I will never forget the Cannabis Edge or people that dare dream of a freedom few ever know or under stand what it cost .... how many beautiful strains must be destroyed before we under stand the life cycles of creation ... are we just the passing harvest or is there more to these strains that we still need to unlock before the answers fill our minds with the true meaning of freedom to think or not, to just live and enjoy the hunt for the perfect strain ...is perfection the small odd plant we throw away because it dose not fit the needs of the modern market or everyone over looks it or is just un willing to take a risk and flip the coin ... who really knows what the future will be .. ?

 

[Dog Star]

Bitcoin maybe..


35 weeks of flowering.. thats is exaggeration.. why Abducted 1399,
before it was just abducted.. or this number explains how many days
she flowerin??

 

[Tazz11]

I have hybrid the strain so it is more stable .. I have grown 19 hybrid G13 strains , the other strain is the new release of Grimm brother's C99 .. if you are breeding a male dominate strain base it will try to convert any other strain it comes in contact with .. so you pick a strain and push pull breed it to stabilize it to the traits you want ...the first set of crosses were done for strain stabilization the second set was for stabilizing given treats ... note both G13 and C99 are female dominate strain bases I can use them as a push /pull system to draw out treats and stabilize others ...the problem with this type of breeding is the pure values of Abducted it self . it is almost impossible for any one other strain to have any lasting effects on the Abducted base strain .....
I can set a male of the abducted in a room and have 15 other hybrid strains in that room and make seed and all will revert to Abducted treats , I have done this 6 times so far and it sucks and waste a lot of time and hard work ,


she was in flowering for 31 days and then the buds were left on the plants and she was placed back re-veg ..., this is what I call SRS , " sacrificial re-vegetation sequencing " the theory is that if the plant has refine the values of what it took to produce the buds . then if the plant feeds from lower vegetation to feed the on coming growth of buds . then if the plant already has a easy source ,it will feed from those first stage buds and as we learn from the past . buds that are put back into veg .. leaf out ,in heavy clusters ,.. these clusters of leaf act as a food source for the next flowering stage ... now remember if any took the time to read what my test were about . you would know that I define why monster clones were not the same as monster cropping . the reason is this same type of values we reach by reveg . can trigger cluster of leafs as well as branching .. those we cause a cluster of heavy branching ,and let those branch out in reveg as the buds small multi numbers of clusters of smaller leafs react to the re veg stage ... this lets the buds feed leaf production and the plant when it finishes the reveg it will go into flowering with a cluster of vegetation for easy growth rates and those small sugar leafs feed refine sugars to the new buds and you need almost no flowering sugars for resin production , is the theory , so what is happing is the resin of the 31 days buds in the first cycle is feeding the bud development in the second flowering stage ...so you will end up with twice the amount of resin and twice the amount of qualities in the resin .....


I am testing the strain to see how many times I can flower the strain out to 31 days and then reveg the same mother and start her in another cycle . so far I am in the second cycle of flowering .. and the smell and aroma are out standing perfection !
see mothers were keep for clones .. not flowered out more then once .. in this case that is just what I am doing . multi flowering the mothers to rise the qualities and purities and stabilize the traits as I go ... a strain that is cycling between reveg and flowering ..refines it self more each time it cycles ... ...


so what the goal is . is to make a cluster of leaf and buds 31 days . about half way of a normal flowering then use that to feed the next flowering buds , see when we see those leafs turn yellow they are feeding the flowering buds I, it takes more to feed bud production then it dose to feed veg ...but the plant it self uses the veg to feed the development of the flowers ... in this case we build a cluster to help feed the next flowering stage ,there was about 2 OZ of good strong buds on the plant before it was put back into re-veg . the 2 OZ is not lost ,it is reinvested in the qualities and purities of the next bud development ...


what I hope to test for is simple can I re-veg 3 cycles 31 days and get 3 times better qualities and purities . sure it takes time and hard work . but if it can rise the qualities of med weed by 3 x can I use the effects on Cancer ....see making BHO resin or RSO is different then what I am trying to do ... if the plant can do this as a pure act of nature vs .controlled SRS then ... I may have found a back door into the treatment of Cancer ...!I don't have to many family members left to wait for a answer I am a mechanical genius and I am doing what I am good at ,out thinking a problem ... that needs to be solved ...till thin ...


the market for new strains will have to wait .. the skills of a breeder go beyond the needs of markets if I can save even one person with cancer.. in my life time I will give the wisdom away for free !. I already know the cost of Cancer first hand !


the easy way to under stand this theory is simple .. would you leave 2 oz of buds on your plant's stem and throw it away ? no .. but my goal is not Bud yield ...see if you have a LR strain . what makes it different .. the number of plants in a given location that feed the soil and those organics that imprint the off spring of the over all strain ...so on a LR strain the buds rot away and feed the next off spring ... so in some cases the strains were in fact stronger then modern strains and this is why .... SRS system takes these theories of LR and brings them back to be used to duplicate the effects for Cancer strains ...will this make stronger more pure weed ... yes ...I have already tested the qualities and purities and there is far more testing to be done but IMHO yes the out come is out right improving the strains and the products they produce ...

 

[Lester Beans]

Any pics of the abducted yet? Like real nice colas? Or at least a frosty bud pic?

 

[Tazz11]

Nah...
Tazz WAS back until he started an argument with another member here & ran off again.

there is no argument , I don't waste my time with foolishness ....

 

[Tazz11]

Any pics of the abducted yet? Like real nice colas? Or at least a frosty bud pic?

yes, there is pics in the 46 years latter ..post !in fact the buds shown is the buds that were re veg ...these plants were topped for control reasons ...resuming this Abducted 1399 SRS topic on that post and this topic to normal breeding questions ...

 

[led05]

I have hybrid the strain so it is more stable .. I have grown 19 hybrid G13 strains , the other strain is the new release of Grimm brother's C99 .. if you are breeding a male dominate strain base it will try to convert any other strain it comes in contact with .. so you pick a strain and push pull breed it to stabilize it to the traits you want ...the first set of crosses were done for strain stabilization the second set was for stabilizing given treats ... note both G13 and C99 are female dominate strain bases I can use them as a push /pull system to draw out treats and stabilize others ...the problem with this type of breeding is the pure values of Abducted it self . it is almost impossible for any one other strain to have any lasting effects on the Abducted base strain .....
I can set a male of the abducted in a room and have 15 other hybrid strains in that room and make seed and all will revert to Abducted treats , I have done this 6 times so far and it sucks and waste a lot of time and hard work ,


she was in flowering for 31 days and then the buds were left on the plants and she was placed back re-veg ..., this is what I call SRS , " sacrificial re-vegetation sequencing " the theory is that if the plant has refine the values of what it took to produce the buds . then if the plant feeds from lower vegetation to feed the on coming growth of buds . then if the plant already has a easy source ,it will feed from those first stage buds and as we learn from the past . buds that are put back into veg .. leaf out ,in heavy clusters ,.. these clusters of leaf act as a food source for the next flowering stage ... now remember if any took the time to read what my test were about . you would know that I define why monster clones were not the same as monster cropping . the reason is this same type of values we reach by reveg . can trigger cluster of leafs as well as branching .. those we cause a cluster of heavy branching ,and let those branch out in reveg as the buds small multi numbers of clusters of smaller leafs react to the re veg stage ... this lets the buds feed leaf production and the plant when it finishes the reveg it will go into flowering with a cluster of vegetation for easy growth rates and those small sugar leafs feed refine sugars to the new buds and you need almost no flowering sugars for resin production , is the theory , so what is happing is the resin of the 31 days buds in the first cycle is feeding the bud development in the second flowering stage ...so you will end up with twice the amount of resin and twice the amount of qualities in the resin .....


I am testing the strain to see how many times I can flower the strain out to 31 days and then reveg the same mother and start her in another cycle . so far I am in the second cycle of flowering .. and the smell and aroma are out standing perfection !
see mothers were keep for clones .. not flowered out more then once .. in this case that is just what I am doing . multi flowering the mothers to rise the qualities and purities and stabilize the traits as I go ... a strain that is cycling between reveg and flowering ..refines it self more each time it cycles ... ...


so what the goal is . is to make a cluster of leaf and buds 31 days . about half way of a normal flowering then use that to feed the next flowering buds , see when we see those leafs turn yellow they are feeding the flowering buds I, it takes more to feed bud production then it dose to feed veg ...but the plant it self uses the veg to feed the development of the flowers ... in this case we build a cluster to help feed the next flowering stage ,there was about 2 OZ of good strong buds on the plant before it was put back into re-veg . the 2 OZ is not lost ,it is reinvested in the qualities and purities of the next bud development ...


what I hope to test for is simple can I re-veg 3 cycles 31 days and get 3 times better qualities and purities . sure it takes time and hard work . but if it can rise the qualities of med weed by 3 x can I use the effects on Cancer ....see making BHO resin or RSO is different then what I am trying to do ... if the plant can do this as a pure act of nature vs .controlled SRS then ... I may have found a back door into the treatment of Cancer ...!I don't have to many family members left to wait for a answer I am a mechanical genius and I am doing what I am good at ,out thinking a problem ... that needs to be solved ...till thin ...


the market for new strains will have to wait .. the skills of a breeder go beyond the needs of markets if I can save even one person with cancer.. in my life time I will give the wisdom away for free !. I already know the cost of Cancer first hand !


the easy way to under stand this theory is simple .. would you leave 2 oz of buds on your plant's stem and throw it away ? no .. but my goal is not Bud yield ...see if you have a LR strain . what makes it different .. the number of plants in a given location that feed the soil and those organics that imprint the off spring of the over all strain ...so on a LR strain the buds rot away and feed the next off spring ... so in some cases the strains were in fact stronger then modern strains and this is why .... SRS system takes these theories of LR and brings them back to be used to duplicate the effects for Cancer strains ...will this make stronger more pure weed ... yes ...I have already tested the qualities and purities and there is far more testing to be done but IMHO yes the out come is out right improving the strains and the products they produce ...

Do you believe a male also becomes more refined , stronger every time it’s pollen is used then reveg, then flowered out, pollen used, reveg etc ?

 

[Tazz11]

yes why would you try to improve a strain if it did not ...lol the breeder studies strains for long spans of time to observe the smallest of changes that most over look .. will they define the strains of the future any many cases yes ! gender has more to do with it then most know because few study the male gender at the level they do with female dominate strains ....did you know one of the true differences between modern strains and Land race strains is the power in qualities and purities found in the male gender .

 

[led05]

yes why would you try to improve a strain if it did not ...lol the breeder studies strains for long spans of time to observe the smallest of changes that most over look .. will they define the strains of the future any many cases yes ! gender has more to do with it then most know because few study the male gender at the level they do with female dominate strains ....did you know one of the true differences between modern strains and Land race strains is the power in qualities and purities found in the male gender .

Per your longer quote

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"what I hope to test for is simple can I re-veg 3 cycles 31 days and get 3 times better qualities and purities . sure it takes time and hard work"[/FONT]


I think you missed the point. In your REflowering/REvegging cycles of female plants you mention they become more pure, better quality etc....

Do you think the same applies for males, at all, if so to what effect vs say Female which you're looking for 3x?

I think expecting the Fem plants qualities & purity to increase 3 fold in the process you outlined, in polite terms is extremely wishful thinking, but some of what you posted is quite interesting so I was curious your thoughts on the same for males.

 

[St. Phatty]

It's interesting how in-breeding works with house-cats, which are descended from the Mediterranean Sand-cat.

The 4 kittens that are currently scratching the carpet in the spare bedroom are the result of a brother-sister mating or a mother-son mating.

1 of the male kittens is super-energetic, smart, playful, and strong.

2 of the kittens are normal. 1 of the kittens, a female, is skinny and gentle and real attached to the outstanding male kitten.


However, I learned with pot plants that the "first one out of the gate" is not always the best one.

One of my favorite strains all around is from a batch of Apollo 11 F3's. A runty female that is sensitive to nutes - that turns into a White Widow-ish Cinderella cross that reminds me of Bros Grimm "Ice Princess".


There's plenty of market for Cannabis but not much of one for Cat Sports. Like Greyhound racing.

I'd love to see an obstacle course circuit, or SOMETHING, for cats, so they can compete like race-horses or grey-hounds.

 

[bigganjabud]

Very helpful and informative now where's my paintbrush

 

[Yarkand]

Per your longer quote

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"what I hope to test for is simple can I re-veg 3 cycles 31 days and get 3 times better qualities and purities . sure it takes time and hard work"[/FONT]


I think you missed the point. In your REflowering/REvegging cycles of female plants you mention they become more pure, better quality etc....

Do you think the same applies for males, at all, if so to what effect vs say Female which you're looking for 3x?

I think expecting the Fem plants qualities & purity to increase 3 fold in the process you outlined, in polite terms is extremely wishful thinking, but some of what you posted is quite interesting so I was curious your thoughts on the same for males.

Well there are a few points that he is definately right on not entirely but non the less he’s on point. The same applies to the males of course (pheno, and traits apply too no doubt)

It’s mostly the plant aclimatizing to your environment and for the plants to have its hormones well established! Basically when it’s the first round straight from seed the plant isn’t fully developed to give a proper harvest and show its true qualities since it has to acclimatize to your room. So the 3 fold on quality and yield he mentioned is pretty much right not entirely of course.
Males is pretty much the same as females but waaay harder to judge and the pollen the male gives out first round should still be amazing let be round 3 since the genes are already present. The female however has to do its best to swell, etc on the right time to be fertilized this produces the most viable and fully mature seeds for the next offspring. Dj short and loads of others mention week 3 is the best time to pollinate!
Males are beautiful but you don’t know what you have unless you have a few to compare ! Check out the icmag male thread ! It’s insane

 

[izzypog]

Wow, good read.

 

[SirSkunk]

good read. thank you Gypsy

 

[harvestreaper]

interesting read gypsy i always thought breeding is just refinement and or creation of genetic mixtutres we control the direction by the technique we use ,inbreeding ,,linebreeding ,,outcrossing ,, ie ,,father daughter ,,son mother are regarded as inbreeding but they are more like linebreeding ,,breeding back into the heritage,, its taken the direction backwards and were refining what has already been created and we can almost go back in time and refine those genetics ,,for me true inbreeding is siblings this is neither backwards or forwards but rolling the dice again at the same point weve reached of the lines developent and selecting from that source ,,the other direction is of course forward this is created by an outcross adding new genetic material to the line and creating something new all 3 methods have been used many times within lines of species ive also always thought inbreeding is a very misunderstood subject that gets the blame for the creation of things it simply reveals ,,when i look at nature i see inbreeding or close family breeding to such a high level siblings look like clones you can look at a million wildebeaste an see little variation,,,a thousand magpies all so pure they look like clones etc when you compare mans attempts so far its lagging far behind ,i think a lot of the misunderstanding of inbreeding comes from what kind of genetic material people have experimented with for example if you inbreed on poorly selected stock it will imediatley show you the defects that are already recessively present , peoples knee jerk reaction to this is inbreeding created those defects but this is not true inbreeding simply showed us the poor quality of the stock were using this is why show dog breeder registerys are against inbreeding it will imediatly show/prove the junk within the lines they breed/sell ,,its far better for buisness to outcross constantly and express hybrid vigour and all the defects stay swept neatly under the resesive carpet ,,so smart buisness move but absolutly no use to improvng that genepool as its contsantly getting new dna mixed in before the pre existing dna was refined/improved /stabalised for its intended enviroment ,,each outcross has its own sets of dominants and recicives so after a few generations of outcrossing youve acumulated 1000s of new good and bad genetics if you then try to inbreed at that point then of course you will see the 1000s of defects present and blame inbreeding ,its madness lol,its the same way with people we naturaly breed free and contantly cross and carry thousands of dominants and recesives if we inbreed bam it all gets shown annd brought to the top and people blame inbreeding but both these examples are almost backwards to the benchmark breeder mother natures way ,and after all the plants and animals we breed all originated from mother natures breeding so for me shes the proffesor the expert and she breeds real close super refined with merciless culling any defective genes are very quickly exposed and eliminated and the only the very best of the genetics are selected for the enviroment they are to live in so i guess im saying breeding is refinement and even tho today we breaking down dna an cells weve not even got close to natures level of refinment the old fashion way we almost running before we walk imo
hope that made at least some sense i just read this thread an smoked one so apologies if it didnt i guess the reason will be because of inbreeding or recesive traits somwere along the line lol

 

[romanoweed]

Yes, i never get good Information what Nature can. Its very small knowledge about the Basis of Wild Plants. Or you can call LAndrace the Basis. You can, but if you still dont know how much came from the Wild Basis.


My idea, or call it what i stumbled upon is: It MAY be that Nature can create strong Weed. I Show you now a Little Thread with two Strains: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=363449 First Strain is a Strain wich was reportedly extraordinarly strong (despite some People thought its weak like hay). I dont think multiple People make this just up. So call it Factish: strong weed.
Secound Strain is wild/feral weed in northern Vietnam.
Funnily there are quiet Abit of similarities between bouth.. There are typical signs of wildness in the secound Strain, like Elongated bases, Little Leafes and Seeds, wich are said to be typical wild plant Features , but otherwise also strong similarities.


Now, the first strain (vietn. Tourist) was said to be collected wild to.. so ok, it could be escaped, and surviving children, or probably simply planted from humans there, between wild plants as coverage. Still, the similarities of bouth shown strains make me wonder over how much of smokable strong weed is manmade (since its told that wild weed is ever weak and not strong at all). I nearly get lust to smoke that secound shurely wild/feral strain, and am wondering. Probably my feel is wrong, but i sense there is potential in wild weed..


I mean probably a bit selection and voila. I just wanted to Show you that possibilities, since i hear so less about wild weed, and im shure studying could anwser much about breeding. There are multiple plants Standing and we could study them trough experiments, and measurements. We could measure the childrens , and map them. Depending on what Measurements the Parents of These children showed we could compare them to childrens, and so on.. Try to see Dynamics. Opposed to that there are rather low counts of manmade Landraces.. With often unshure Background. So its much harder to measure/Analyse them. You cant see paterns if you cant Name/tag them.


But in nature we can tag precisely. Well not everything precisely, but some things precisely. Per example you can observate / tag snaileating, you can tag geographycal blockings like mountains. You can tag soil nutrients. And look if there are Patterns, like say simultanouse deathrate like snailrate. This would tell much.. It would show a weakness. So you could draw a map of weaker plants than average. Probably many of this maps and you find a positive map. Like growing at a steep mountaincliff Shows simiulatous rise in healthyness(smaller deathrates).


If you do enough maps, you may see a certain Pattern, what creates good, nicer and more beautiful individuals. meaning You try to draw Mathematics, and Geometries, to proove the Measurements/Testresults

 

[romanoweed]

Infact they doo genetic Measuremnts with per example tomatos like per example here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-019-0410-2 But here they do it only with landraces. I think doing this with wild plants would give a nice Imput to study. Aswell as reports from Eye. Just naming traits with eye. We could then try using mathematics and geometries to describe it.. Without this IMPUT we cant aply Mathematics.


So if someone found Maps (genetic measurement maps / Eye observations) of Wild Plants, then tell me please. I cant find them. Doesent even matter if its from Cannabis


(( and i dont mean genetic maps like the ones, where they place overlaying Traits in a 2 dimensional Space, or in a line. These already are "mathematicall" data processed to Clusters.. I mean raw data is what we would rather need.. Yes im not a fan of Clustering-Graphs, aah not so importent))