Inbreeding.....the Skill of the Breeder.....

[tazz11]

OK skill of the breeder

let see what the skill level of the common breeder is here ...

OK when do you cut clones where from and why .. I will go first .

for years the rule of thumb was cut in veg cut from the lower branches .. that is BS

if you want to smoke a great leaf your on the right track...lol

if you cut from a veg-ing plant you are getting the best veg-ing traits not flowering traits !

now before you even start , define what your doing and why ! are you cutting for yield ? or breeding ?

do you want numbers or are you breeding ?

are you mapping the strain base traits or both ?

the problem is , when you cut a clone you change the life cycle from the base stock you started with ...we will use the simple format ...F1 base stock

I cut a clone its a F1 C1

I cut 3 clones they are ( F1C1,F1C1,F1C1)

I cut a clone from a F1C1 and it is a F1C2 .., F1 base stock C2 is generation 2 by cloning ..

breeding with out clear records is foolish BS .

this system works for me and I don't care what system you use or if you got it from a book or a old hippie that's up to you .... I care if you can tell where a strain came from and at what stage it is at .. I see a F1 C18 I know this plant has been cloned 18 times ...

if I see a F3 I know its a base stock that has not been clones or refined yet

ok now we have the question of where to cut a clone from ..?

the question is a loaded question . its not where , its when where for what given strain base

strain A may cast good veg clones at 3 weeks . strain B may cast good veg clones at 4 weeks ..do you record what nude you cut the clone from ?

what stage is the plant at ?

I cut for breeding at 5 stages
pre veg
late veg
pre-flowering
flowering
pre-Harvest

if your refining traits for flowering why use veg clones ?????????????

if your refining flowering why cut from the bottom of the plant ?... your breeding or growing pot make up your mind and refine your skills or get another hobby ...or just smoke a J and forget about all the breeding skills ...

if you want skills of the breeder then some of you will have to go get a book and read it . some will find their own way ..

but the records tell us what the strains are and what they are doing ...

if you want to work on plant health cut in veg . if you want to refine flowering traits cut in flowering , do you want to refine pre-flowering traits you got it ,cut in pre-flowering if you want to refine Pre-Harvest traits . be direct !..

look ahead and plain the events step by step ...

use the plant to do what you want it to ...

cut away lower clones in veg . use med to upper clones for cloning in Pre- flowering or Pre- Harvest ..

don't cry when your clones don't look like the base stock .

.when you get a new F1 cut from all 5 stages of the life cycle

and record it F1 C1 stage 5

you think it takes skill to define the difference between a

F1 C1 stage 2 vs F3 C108 stage 5

so do you see a difference in the skills of the breeder in the records he keeps .. I do .. smoke brake ...lol

so what dose HP F1 C14 stage 5 mean ...( Hash Plant F1 base stock ,clone cuttings 14 generations , cut from stage 5 ,) if I see the stage number I know its in flowering traits refinement ...no stage number its not being refine for flowering traits ..

I can tell all of this info for one look at the tag ...so if you have a cross its the same system HP F1 x SD F2 C6...ect...

 

[beta]

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[Betterhaff]

You are not affecting the genotype with asexual or vegetative propagation. The genotype will be the same if the plant is cloned by tissue culture, by taking cuts from the top or the bottom of a plant, or by taking clones of clones of clones. How do you think they produce strawberries, commercially and not in regards to breeding?

 

[Only Ornamental]

Cuttings? Clones?
Sure I fool around with these but that ain't breeding and certainly not inbreeding. You need a (phenotypical) female and a (phenotypical) male for (in-)breeding, not clones.
Where to cut a clone? A plant is the same genetics from tip to toe, it doesn't matter. Why take a cut from a flowering plant only to put that back under 24/0? Certain 'traits' may be different but you can direct them as easily as you can handle the timer...
A good breeder might take several clones during the life of a certain plant and play around to stress test them before using one of these (as long as it's healthy it doesn't matter which one he takes ).

And if you had taken your own advice

if you want skills of the breeder then some of you will have to go get a book and read it

to heart you'd know that the denomination F3 won't tell you if the plant or its ancestors were cloned.
BTW I see no point, chic as it may be, to count clones with a C. It's hard enough that folks count seed generations. A messed up bookkeeping doesn't make a bad breeder and a good breeder doesn't necessarily keep proper books (sadly). And if he does why would he share his business secrets?

 

[tazz11]

Cuttings? Clones?
Sure I fool around with these but that ain't breeding and certainly not inbreeding. You need a (phenotypical) female and a (phenotypical) male for (in-)breeding, not clones.
Where to cut a clone? A plant is the same genetics from tip to toe, it doesn't matter. Why take a cut from a flowering plant only to put that back under 24/0? Certain 'traits' may be different but you can direct them as easily as you can handle the timer...
A good breeder might take several clones during the life of a certain plant and play around to stress test them before using one of these (as long as it's healthy it doesn't matter which one he takes ).

And if you had taken your own advice to heart you'd know that the denomination F3 won't tell you if the plant or its ancestors were cloned.
BTW I see no point, chic as it may be, to count clones with a C. It's hard enough that folks count seed generations. A messed up bookkeeping doesn't make a bad breeder and a good breeder doesn't necessarily keep proper books (sadly). And if he does why would he share his business secrets?

I am glad I don't do thing the way you do .. for the sake of my own path you can keep this site . and all your so called skills . good luck to you ...

your saying if I cut your foot and sew it back on your hand its the same thing or if I cut out a kidney from a girl baby and put it n a 50 year old man its the same thing .. right .. good luck with that ...lol

I collected some of the rarest strains in the world and lost them in a fire . now I am glad , you guys could have hert your selfs with real base stock ..lol
ok so if what you are saying is true then all cannabis is the same no matter what you do to it ... that's total BS ...the seed banks are all selling the same sh** ! if its all the same why buy it all . stay in house and fu** the seed banks right ? if you wanted answers then why did you cut from other stages your self ? because that gene pool is failing ...
just because I do things differently dose not help you have a open mind . sorry there is nothing I can teach you , I will not waste my time ...latter
I have been around for 44 years and I will be here well after this site , I see them come and go . the book skills and the biggest strains and the I know it all ... they always full a sh**!

if you cant see past your nose then that's your problem ...lol

stay safe stay free ...

 

[trichrider]

it might be perhaps if one were to be looking for telomerase degeneration in cloned varietals, or in determining lack of vitality after subsequent clonings...

"Telomerase also called telomere terminal transferase [1] is a ribonucleoprotein that is an enzyme that adds DNA sequence repeats ("TTAGGG" in all vertebrates) to the 3' end of DNA strands in the telomere regions, which are found at the ends of eukaryotic chromosomes. This region of repeated nucleotide called telomeres contains noncoding DNA and hinders the loss of important DNA from chromosome ends. As a result, every time the chromosome is copied, only 100–200 nucleotides are lost, which causes no damage to the organism's DNA. Telomerase is a reverse transcriptase that carries its own RNA molecule, which is used as a template when it elongates telomeres, which are shortened after each replication cycle."

telomeres in plants....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3767043/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9467846

 

[tazz11]

You are not affecting the genotype with asexual or vegetative propagation. The genotype will be the same if the plant is cloned by tissue culture, by taking cuts from the top or the bottom of a plant, or by taking clones of clones of clones. How do you think they produce strawberries, commercially and not in regards to breeding?

what ever

 

[tazz11]

I will go away no problem ...I will control over 700,000 seeds tomorrow with or with out your opinions ...

 

[Only Ornamental]

Oh boy... did the zombie apocalypse already start? Darn, I always miss the good stuff!!
So then: AARRRGGGHHHH run for your life, we're all going to DIIIEEE!!!

 

[Lester Beans]

I will go away no problem ...I will control over 700,000 seeds tomorrow with or with out your opinions ...

Tomato seeds?

 

[Only Ornamental]

...
I am glad I don't do thing the way you do How do I do things? Who said you should do what I do? .. for the sake of my own path you can keep this site Are we childish tonight? . and all your so called skills Did I speak about my skills? Guess not... It's a general theme about general things...
ok so if what you are saying is true then all cannabis is the same no matter what you do to it ...
if you cant see past your nose then that's your problem ...
stay safe stay free ...

What the heck are you talking about?
First, we all said ONE plant is the same from tip to toe (figuratively speaking, plants have no toes), not that all cannabis plants were the same.
Instead of deleting your posts (if you really were the opinion you said you were, then there's no point in revising your former statements) you should try to understand what others intend to say. If English is a problem, no worries, I'm not anglophone either, just say the word; I'll gladly help you with French and German and a bit Spanish .
What has my nose to do with this whole thing? I see far and I have the skills and IQ to explain what I see in scientific terms. You may or may not see far but... again, that's not a deficit but a mere obstacle we all have to cope with.
And you stay safe too! If you drive like you do other things... can't delete the past out there in the real life...

 

[tazz11]

What the heck are you talking about?
First, we all said ONE plant is the same from tip to toe (figuratively speaking, plants have no toes), not that all cannabis plants were the same.
Instead of deleting your posts (if you really were the opinion you said you were, then there's no point in revising your former statements) you should try to understand what others intend to say. If English is a problem, no worries, I'm not anglophone either, just say the word; I'll gladly help you with French and German and a bit Spanish .
What has my nose to do with this whole thing? I see far and I have the skills and IQ to explain what I see in scientific terms. You may or may not see far but... again, that's not a deficit but a mere obstacle we all have to cope with.
And you stay safe too! If you drive like you do other things... can't delete the past out there in the real life...

I am a free mason .fool

 

[Only Ornamental]

I am a free mason .fool

So it's you who took the Holy Grail? Darn...

 

[Mullum]

[quote=trichrider;6

 

[Only Ornamental]

Thanks trichrider for sharing this info
I,ve got a 2002 sensi jack herer cutting which is painfully slow
unsure as to which number of successive cuts were made before I got her
telomerase degeneration may explain my frustrating dilemma

The two citations explain that telomerase activity in plants prevent them from getting old the way animals do . Should your plant really happen to have used up telomeres than it won't just grow slow, it will die. The JH isn't such an old variety, nothing at all in a plants life. Though, were it a cut dating back to the Middle Ages...
Also, cuttings are highly proliferative organs so to speak and not just a leaf you keep in a glass, hence they have a high telomerase activity (in the growing bud tips) blessing them with 'immortality'.

 

[Mullum]

The two citations explain that telomerase activity in plants prevent them from getting old the way animals do . Should your plant really happen to have used up telomeres than it won't just grow slow, it will die. The JH isn't such an old variety, nothing at all in a plants life. Though, were it a cut dating back to the Middle Ages...
Also, cuttings are highly proliferative organs so to speak and not just a leaf you keep in a glass, hence they have a high telomerase activity (in the growing bud tips) blessing them with 'immortality'.

Thankyou OO, for taking the time to clarify

I have much to learn

 

[Lester Beans]

It has been said and I have found it to be true, that if you take a cutting and plant outside the bring back in, it will rejuvenate the strain some. I actually did that with my JH mom, and the results were nice.

 

[Lester Beans]

I am a free mason .fool

Damn, I have done a ton of masonry and my body is shot, can't imagine doing it for free.

 

[Mullum]

It has been said and I have found it to be true, that if you take a cutting and plant outside the bring back in, it will rejuvenate the strain some. I actually did that with my JH mom, and the results were nice.

thanks Lester, I completely forgot about the old out door freshen up
trick

 

[tazz11]

so which is the better stand Apollo 11 ...or JH

answer is Apollo11 it sold for more then JH...lol