In need for some help.

[Stress_test]

Sorry folks but I have to disagree with all of you...


In every picture I see a very distinct tattle-tail in the plants. Even in the very first pictures.

The leaves are curling up. There is only one thing that will cause leaves to curl and cup upward like that: Nutrient Toxicity. Overdose.

Deficiencies, lock-out and root-aphids all cause the leaves to curl down and under.

 

[chichiman]

Sorry folks but I have to disagree with all of you...


In every picture I see a very distinct tattle-tail in the plants. Even in the very first pictures.

The leaves are curling up. There is only one thing that will cause leaves to curl and cup upward like that: Nutrient Toxicity. Overdose.

Deficiencies, lock-out and root-aphids all cause the leaves to curl down and under.

Still EWC wouldn´t do bad?
(Going to see it in couple of days)

 

[SeaMaiden]

Stress-test, I respectfully disagree with you based on my direct experience with RAs. The leaves can curl upward. I don't know if I saved any of the pix from one of my RA grows, they were absolutely embarrassing. I'll look on my harddrives, if I can find pix, I'll post them somewhere (though I may need reminding).

Also, I'm not saying absolutely this is what the problem is, but to me it's worth investigating closely based on what chichi has reported, ESPECIALLY that things are going downhill at that 3.5-4week point, it's a classic RA sign.

Buds are growing, slow tho'. There are these little flying bastardos. Not much but some. From the beginning. Going to check tomorrow if there´s those blackheads eating my roots. How to get rid of them? Do I need some other worms to eat them?

One of the 5 plants was hermaphrodite but I think it hasn't got anything to do with maggots (it was fem blueberry, detected on 1st week of flo).

You actually want to find the black-headed maggots, those are fungus gnat larvae and are FAR easier to deal with than root aphids. If you find something that looks like an aphid or tick, *and* you've got flyers, you've got a problem that won't go away until you deal with it directly. RA larvae can also create a white webbing or... I'm not sure how else it could be described, like a film maybe, in the areas most affected.

I'm seriously into organic methods, but there was nothing to treat the RAs and they can devastate, absolutely devastate. This last March I was forced to destroy 12-15lbs of product because of the secondary disease vectored by the RAs. And that's the other problem with them--they cause enough trouble on their own and you'd think that would be enough, right? WRONG. They vector lots of other problematic diseases, like powdery mildew that doesn't respond to treatment.

So, back to treatment. I found that soaking with Bayer Tree & Shrub did NOT eliminate the RAs. The active ingredient in it is imidacloprid, and many others have found relief using it, so don't eliminate the notion of using it from your arsenal. What did work for me was flooding my trays (SOG style in trays, DTW, but I have plugs) with Spectracide with Triazicide, mixed up for the fruit and vegetable applications. It also allows a decent 21day pre-harvest interval, whereas when you go the imid route you're starting a clock that's longer, especially the stronger the imid concentration. If using a product like Merit75, you really should wait 60days before harvest (I know! right?).

There is a product called Met52 that gives decent results, but IIRC it's still around an 85% kill rate like Botanigard, and that means that 15 out of 100 of those little motherfuckers is still alive, kicking, and squirting out more. Also, it needs to be mixed up in the media for best results.

Get yellow sticky traps in there, see what they trap. RA flyers remind me of Super-bad Fungus Gnats, like... Supergnats.

 

[Stress_test]

Stress-test, I respectfully disagree with you based on my direct experience with RAs. The leaves can curl upward. I don't know if I saved any of the pix from one of my RA grows, they were absolutely embarrassing. I'll look on my harddrives, if I can find pix, I'll post them somewhere (though I may need reminding).

Also, I'm not saying absolutely this is what the problem is, but to me it's worth investigating closely based on what chichi has reported, ESPECIALLY that things are going downhill at that 3.5-4week point, it's a classic RA sign.

You actually want to find the black-headed maggots, those are fungus gnat larvae and are FAR easier to deal with than root aphids. If you find something that looks like an aphid or tick, *and* you've got flyers, you've got a problem that won't go away until you deal with it directly. RA larvae can also create a white webbing or... I'm not sure how else it could be described, like a film maybe, in the areas most affected.

I'm seriously into organic methods, but there was nothing to treat the RAs and they can devastate, absolutely devastate. This last March I was forced to destroy 12-15lbs of product because of the secondary disease vectored by the RAs. And that's the other problem with them--they cause enough trouble on their own and you'd think that would be enough, right? WRONG. They vector lots of other problematic diseases, like powdery mildew that doesn't respond to treatment.

So, back to treatment. I found that soaking with Bayer Tree & Shrub did NOT eliminate the RAs. The active ingredient in it is imidacloprid, and many others have found relief using it, so don't eliminate the notion of using it from your arsenal. What did work for me was flooding my trays (SOG style in trays, DTW, but I have plugs) with Spectracide with Triazicide, mixed up for the fruit and vegetable applications. It also allows a decent 21day pre-harvest interval, whereas when you go the imid route you're starting a clock that's longer, especially the stronger the imid concentration. If using a product like Merit75, you really should wait 60days before harvest (I know! right?).

There is a product called Met52 that gives decent results, but IIRC it's still around an 85% kill rate like Botanigard, and that means that 15 out of 100 of those little motherfuckers is still alive, kicking, and squirting out more. Also, it needs to be mixed up in the media for best results.

Get yellow sticky traps in there, see what they trap. RA flyers remind me of Super-bad Fungus Gnats, like... Supergnats.

I agree and I absolutely would NOT discount ANY idea without investigating it first.

I have been asked to revisit this and re-evaluate my previous suggestion and I have to say that I still see the same indicators of nitrogen toxicity induced lock-out.

Here is why I am leaning this direction and why I discounted other potential problems:
And it certainly is possible that I was/am mistaken.

I went back and looked again...
I read all the posts in this thread and studied the pics quite awhile before I contradicted everybody else because I originally though the same as well.

In my experience: That late into flower a Nitrogen toxicity will cause the roots to stop up-taking other nutrients.

It's more difficult with the small pictures the OP posted, but if you magnify them you can see that none of the other indications of P of even K deficiencies are visible.

I studied the pics looking for leaves that showed any early indications of P or K def and there are none. Only what appears to be late stages, ie: the yellowing, brown and dying leave. No purple colors in the stems or leaf veins, or the bronzed/bluish blotches like expected for a P def.

Also: I studied the older leaves in the pics of original post, which are always the first to begin showing P deficiency.

I considered the root aphids as mentioned also, but typically root aphid damage will begin on lower leaves and then move upwards.

I also considered heat damage from a light being too close. But the symptoms appear to be random, rather than localized as I'd expect from light burn.

The other indicator that lends to my analogy is the leaf tips: Many other tips are beginning to show the hint of burn.

However I would not discount RA's simply because of that! IN FACT: I would diligently inspect the roots just for my own piece of mind.

 

[offthehook]

Great post Stress_ test. I love the way how you systematicly scrutinise the condition of the plants without comming of as a "Know-it-all".

Thanks mate.