I'm Switching, Need Nute Recommendations

[rrog]

Hi

I have a micro-grow area 2' x 3' x 5'

SCROG screen

I do drip Hydro

I have a completely sealed 600W HPS

I'd like to switch to Organic Hydro. This forum seems to be the Mecca .



I'm of the opinion that if you go with the nutes that most use, there's a bigger database to ask questions to. Seems like Pure Blend Pro is most favored here? Is it actually Organic? I read someone's comment that "The only true organic hydro nutrients out there is bio canna"

Is that true?

Thank you

 

[rrog]

I can see this is a LOT different from Standard Hydro. The Organic Hydro system. I haven't found a nice and tidy "How-To" guide, but there seem to be too many variables for that.

There are no nute changes it seems. You just keep adding new nutes?

There is a bucket or breeder for the beneficial orgs?

I was doing drip in Hydroton. That would seems to be a good breeding area along with some elements in the res.

I'm very height limited and was hoping I could re-use the system I have shown above. 9 gallon res and 3 one gallon pails of Hydroton.

Am I Hydro-Hosed here?

Thanks

 

[shaunmulok]

I think General Hydroponics have just released a 3 part organic nute line

 

[LJB]

I've grown in coco for a few years and started off using Canna coco nutrients. However, they're more expensive and not available close by to my new location. Two weeks into flowering of the latest, I switched over to Pure Blend Pro Bloom and Cal-Mag Plus (15 ml per gallon / 5 ml per gallon). The plants handled the change without a problem. They are now starting week six.

 

[shaunmulok]

Here ya go check out this link
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=125743

The line sound pretty good
peace

 

[CANNACO-OP]

untested by us in hydro drip system,

but in aero and soil, workin aok

peace.canna

 

[mrwags]

PBP,Liquid Karma,Cal-Mag and some Hydroplex in the end. Have used this system for years now and have never had a problem well except when I stored in correctly that is.



Mr.Wags

 

[10k]

The nutrients Mr Wags mentioned are a great package rrog and the setup you have would work fine with such nutes.
It's also a nice setup for supporting an even more organic situation like biobuckets or even an aquaponics reservoir.

But if, you've brought those plants to the point you now have running hydro chemical salts ferts like gh flora series, then imho,
you are somewhat "hydro hosed" right now, as you put it.

It's better ime, to just go ahead and finish these plants off in the pure hydro chem salts nutes,
than to try to convert over to an organic based grow at THIS point in these plants growth.

 

[rrog]

Thanks all for the input. The photos were from last year. That system is idle at the moment, which is why I'm asking now.

Is PBP and Liquid Karma actually Organic?

Thanks

 

[milehighmedical]

It's not 100% certified organic, but grab a bottle and read the ingredients. It's composed of organic sources of nutrients... but I don't know what's in it that doesn't qualify it to be certified by USDA? Maybe they didn't pay the $20,000 bribe to get the certification?

 

[rrog]

Seems popular which means I have more people to pester with questions.

Thanks MileHigh

 

[milehighmedical]

I hear ya, I'm still trying find out if I can reliably use a tds meter to measure PBP, LK, etc. and if it will clog drip lines.

 

[rrog]

Clogging drip lines is a concern of mine also. APparently there are more possibly undissolved solids?

http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=94767

Slips says that Pura Vida is OK for drip lines.

Also, I don't use emitters. I just terminate the 1/4" hose with a 1/4 stop valve

 

[Dalaihempy]

The only true fully organic hydro nutrient avaluble on the market is BioCanna the rest are not 100% organic.

And canna recomends you use there biocanna mix for it also.

Im suprised from reading some posts some even think cannas coco nutrients is organic its not or do they claim it to be.

If your going to use say bat guno you still need to use other nutrients with the guno so unless you use say BioCanna in there medium mix wich is soil in short you will have to use organic teas and coco to be fully organic wich means a lot of effert and no room for era.

 

[Citizen024]

Do NOT simply think you can toss 100% organic nutrient in place of salts; add an air stone/stirring pump and away you go. No way, never. Will not work. Don't care what anyone says. Pura Vida/Roots Organic/Bio Canna/FloraNova, etc etc. in ANY standard recirc system, your asking for trouble. Prepare for a wild ride. Watch as the PH fluxes up, and will not be brought back down for more then 6 hours (the microbes prefer higher PH's for N fixation and WILL change it themselves). Your growth rate will be shit, and your system will smell like a fishy mucky foamy messy quagmire in a matter of 3-4 days. Yum. You will be bummed.

Pure organic systems need to set up to BE pure organic systems. Fundementally different, even if they look similar. It requires much planning. Bio Buckets, Messiah's Bathes, run to waste coco systems (my fav), etc are all specifically geared to handle organic nutrient. Outside of those systems, forget it. Not as your primary source of nutrient anyhow. Of those, a really small bio-bucket is totally doable, as is Messiah's Bathes. The run to wastes are great, but pose challenges in getting them dialed (read my thread on Pure Vida for a good breakdown). You can even add more "raw" bottled organic liquids to be sure your getting eveything in there you need at first as you get the hang of it.

Organics can be summed up into two different worlds: those systems that use microbes to eat organic materials, pump tons of oxygen, producing nutrients and maintaining stable solutions (Bathes/Bio Buckets). These are TRULY 100% raw organic hydro. If this case, you feed the system, the microbes feed your plants- very stable, great when done right, but really- you have very little control. The microbes do the work, and they do it well, but expect to really keep it under "your" control. It's under "their" control. Then there are those that use a medium to support microbes and use FRESH run to waste high quality pre-digested organic nutrients to DIRECTLY feed the plants AND support a healthy microbe colony to keep it all friendly and digesting away. These systems skirt on the edge of being organic, but by text book definition they can be. Other then those two pathes I don't know how to make organic hydro work. And I have been at it with this stuff.

Pure Blend Pro and various additives are EXCELLENT. It can be used somewhat like a standard salt nutrient with some know how. It is very very stable, and well formulated. And expensive- you can pretty much mix several cheaper products to do the same thing . . but I digress. It is, however NOT 100% organic. Read the label: calcium nitrate. Know what that is?? Yeah. . salts. It's the "backbone" that makes it the worker it is. And the Cal Mag+ or MagiCal it requires? Also certainly NOT organic. That wonderful Technaflora "Recipe for Success" line? All salts. Sorry.


But these present a GREAT option too if your OKAY with your salts being your main feed: use salt fert your already familiar with and add stable organic boosters to round it out. Air and stirring pumps are good to use. Pure Blend Original, Budswell, foliar with kelp products, Earth Juice Catalyst (no Bloom or Grow or you'll regret it), various sugary products. There's a bunch of really nice additive out there- look for those that very fluid and mix well, and most importantly are PH and nutrient stable. Create a nice home for organisms when you plan your system; maybe use coco/perlite or even rockwool as a medium. Use pro-biotic teas. Put something that will feed your microlife in your nutrient mixes. You will notice that your results improve from just straight salts. It'll take you a little getting used too, but if you have any experience you can handle it as long as your willing to study and pay attention to your plants. And without the potential headache of 100% organic. Work towards that as a future goal as you gain experience and knowledge. You can do it, just want to see you succeed!!!!

 

[ChaosCatalunya]

Hi

I have a micro-grow area 2' x 3' x 5'

SCROG screen

I do drip Hydro

I have a completely sealed 600W HPS

I'd like to switch to Organic Hydro. This forum seems to be the Mecca .



I'm of the opinion that if you go with the nutes that most use, there's a bigger database to ask questions to. Seems like Pure Blend Pro is most favored here? Is it actually Organic? I read someone's comment that "The only true organic hydro nutrients out there is bio canna"

Is that true?

Thank you

What is that gold thing at the end of your feed line ? If you have metal in the system you may well get problems, so try and stick with the hard black plastic you have made the rest out of.

Canna nutrients are pukka, never had a complaint and people who use the brown organic stuff love it, I even have a bottle to give my plants the odd treat.

 

[rrog]

Chaos, that is a brass hose coupling. Used only during a pumped flush of the res. Never contacts the live res. Good point you make. Thanks a lot.


Thank you Citizen. Great thought process here.

Then there are those that use a medium to support microbes and use FRESH run to waste high quality pre-digested organic nutrients to DIRECTLY feed the plants AND support a healthy microbe colony to keep it all friendly and digesting away. These systems skirt on the edge of being organic, but by text book definition they can be. Other then those two pathes I don't know how to make organic hydro work. And I have been at it with this stuff.

This seems to be what I should consider

Pure Blend Pro and various additives are EXCELLENT. It can be used somewhat like a standard salt nutrient with some know how. It is very very stable, and well formulated. And expensive- you can pretty much mix several cheaper products to do the same thing . . but I digress.

This I would be interested in knowing more about

This seems like a potentially happy median. Not going completely organic.

So to pursue this "almost Organic" route, I have to consider my current Hydro Rig. I have the drip system shown earlier in this thread. No plants growing now.

It is a re-circulating drip that used Hydroton. Would I still re-circulate? Seems I would need to so as not to flush away the orgs growing in the res.

Thanks again. This seems like a great transitional step. The bottom line is I want to not smoke the chemicals that I add.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

It's composed of organic sources of nutrients... but I don't know what's in it that doesn't qualify it to be certified by USDA? Maybe they didn't pay the $20,000 bribe to get the certification?

milehighmedical

If you're talking about OMRI then your suspicions could/would/are definitely correct.

What a crew. They figured out how to extort money legally.

BTW - I'm not familiar with USDA certification regarding organic or 'approved for organic' agricultural/horticulture products. I'm familiar with various state certifications (California, Washington, Oregon, et al.) but nothing (yet) at the federal level (i.e. USDA).

I'm probably wrong on that point and I'll check with the folks at Oregon Tilth later this morning. They control certification of both food/produce items as well as specific farms & gardens which takes about 5 years (on average) to fully convert from conventional to organic methods under their guidelines.

CC

 

[rrog]

Personally, I'm not too concerned about the Pure OMRI certification. I'm headed toward a primarily organic system, but not purely organic

 

[Citizen024]

Organic state laws are all superceeded by federal organic labeling laws. Effectively ending state standards and creating one standard (which is actually lower then Oregon or California's own).

Most the debate has nothing to do with us, and everything to do with big agri-business.