I need help, I can't figure this one out!

[PoweredByLove]

just water it like normal with normal water. as the plant grows it will use up the too much food you fed and balance out.

 

[cbcool]

Soil test

Soil test

I got my soil test back, I'm a bit disappointed with the company's lack of detail, or maybe it's just cause I haven't really learned how to read these things yet!

I don't know what should be optimal levels of everything, but my soil definitely looks severely out of whack. N is quite low that's for sure.

Is there anyone who can help me make sense of this test and what might be the best way to deal with my soil?

Thanks in advance.

 

[corky1968]

The main thing to do is reduce your pH from 7.6 to around a pH 6.2 - 6.6

The only nutrient you really need is a little nitrogen so don't add too much.

Everything else is supplied in more than enough quantities for now.

On the right side of the test is a bunch of stars. Above that it shows LOW-AVE-HIGH.
So anything AVE to HIGH is plenty supplied. In other words, you have very good soil.
AVE = Average.

Like I mentioned above your pH has to be dropped a bit.

Otherwise you have it pretty easy.

 

[cbcool]

Like I said I don't know a whole lot about properly balanced soil, but it was my understanding that K should equal P and S should be half of K or it starts to create cation anion imbalances that cause lockout? I don't know if that's true I just remember reading it somewhere, and something about Ca/Mg being within a 7:1 or less ratio of each other?

It seems like everything that should be lower is double it's counterpart that should be higher, it all confuses me a bit, seems like I should bring P up to counteract K , but I don't even know what optimal levels of each should be? Makes my head spin!!!

N does seem low, but organic N seems abundant, does that mean the biological activity in my soil is shit and it's not breaking down my nutes and making them available? If so that would explain the yellowing of fan leaves I've had.

Thanks for the Input corky, you have been more than helpful and I do appreciate it.

 

[corky1968]

High inputs of decomposing matter will tie up the nitrogen in the soil.

That's why they recommend compost builders to add nitrogen rich nutrients to speed things up.

Blood meal and chicken manure as fast acting nitrogen rich fertilizers.

I like using bone meal for phosphorus when growing outdoors.

 

[cbcool]

Can you expand on that? I'm not sure what your saying.?

 

[corky1968]

Ok, if a person placed a lot of green grass,hay, etc. in their gardens to decompose.
The decomposing bacteria population would use up a lot of nitrogen as they multiply.
Hence, the nitrogen in the soil would be tied up.

Just add a little nitrogen to your soil and all will be well.

This may help a little.

Understanding nitrogen in soils

 

[cbcool]

Thank you that makes more sense, the bacteria is eating part of my nitrogen to live and multiply thus making less available to the plants, is that correct?

 

[corky1968]

Thank you that makes more sense, the bacteria is eating part of my nitrogen to live and multiply thus making less available to the plants, is that correct?

Bing Bing Bing, Jackpot.

 

[FoothillFarming]

Thank you for the reply, I have been through that thread more then a couple times , there are some similar P deficient traits , but there are some Ca , K,Mg, similarities as well thats why I am unsure of what's going on. I did amend with rock phosphate, kelp, and fish bone meal, and tea'd with kelp, so I feel like phosphate deficiency isn't the issue, but I could be wrong as they are switching to flower so o could be wrong.

I don't know it's a good starting point., Thank you.

Ding ding. Good observation. What are you cations? K, Na, NH4, Mg, and Ca. That is why all those deficiencies look similar, because one excess or one element being deficient will lock out other cations. So lets check the soil results......

 

[FoothillFarming]

First possible problem, they run their results off loam soil, or common Colorado soil. I skipped quickly through the thread, and noticed you do grow in ground, but it looks like a hole that was filled with soil-less medium? Is that correct? Does this match up well for you?

Second problem with results, they didn't explain why N was needed. Lets go back to your cations...... Your K and Mg is very high. Ca is high as well. So three of your 5 cations are in excess, so what does that tell you about the other two? Like a teeter totter, what goes up, the other side of the equation must go down.

So now what's left is your N. Since you seem 100% organic, you don't need NH4, so what's left is your Na. So I am not sure if they are recommending more N to lower your other cations, or because your crop actually needs it?

If it were me, I would maybe foliar N in for the next couple weeks. You don't want to flood your soil with a high dose, and I would not give three feedings throughout the grow cycle. That would be too late into flower IMO. Maybe one soil drench with a low to medium level of N, then folair it in for the next two weeks. By then, you should see a change in the plant health and can re-evaluate from there.

Anybody see a flaw in my thinking? Corky? Seems like Corky has been on the ball also.

Edit: Do you have a sodium source? I would consider a foliar there as well.

 

[cbcool]

Here's the test results again.

 

[cbcool]

First possible problem, they run their results off loam soil, or common Colorado soil. I skipped quickly through the thread, and noticed you do grow in ground, but it looks like a hole that was filled with soil-less medium? Is that correct? Does this match up well for you?

Yes the holes are filled with amended Pete, compost and perlite, probably more compost then Pete at this point.

Second problem with results, they didn't explain why N was needed. Lets go back to your cations...... Your K and Mg is very high. Ca is high as well. So three of your 5 cations are in excess, so what does that tell you about the other two? Like a teeter totter, what goes up, the other side of the equation must go down.

Ya they definitely lacked details in the report, I think K,Mg,Ca being high are locking out N and Na from being available, is my thinking correct?

So now what's left is your N. Since you seem 100% organic, you don't need NH4, so what's left is your Na. So I am not sure if they are recommending more N to lower your other cations, or because your crop actually needs it?

I do have several plants with lower leaves yellowing, so I would assume they a bit more N, but there's still a ton of N in there but I guess it hasn't been broke down yet?

If it were me, I would maybe foliar N in for the next couple weeks. You don't want to flood your soil with a high dose, and I would not give three feedings throughout the grow cycle. That would be too late into flower IMO. Maybe one soil drench with a low to medium level of N, then folair it in for the next two weeks. By then, you should see a change in the plant health and can re-evaluate from there.

So maybe a drench with something like comeback?

Anybody see a flaw in my thinking? Corky? Seems like Corky has been on the ball also.

Edit: Do you have a sodium source? I would consider a foliar there as well.

I don't currently have a sodium source.

 

[cbcool]

No of my text changed color, I replied in-between your paragraphs,

 

[FoothillFarming]

OK, lets just number each of your responses.

#1 So next time, I would send to Logan labs. Either way, ask them to weigh your dry soil-less mix before testing. Can't speak on the lab you used, but Logan will dry your samples for you when asked. That wont change your results much, but worth asking next time.

#2 yes, you are correct. That is why a foliar spray will be most effective IMO.

#3 Everything is about balance. Your tests show N in the soil, but excess of other cations blocking the uptake. Bypass that with foliar. When you say not broken down yet, I don't think that is case or at least something that can be determined from soil tests. Soil tests purely show whats in the soil, not what's available. Paste test or Tissue tests are far better for that. Tissue tests being the best.

Maybe a good attack would be to do a EWC slurry/AACT with quality castings. If you can find a high N EWC that would help, or add an additional N source mixed with the castings. Then foliar from there, that would take care of N and biolife. Careful not to load up on molasses if doing an act and make sure the tea is finished. You don't really want more Mg.

#4 No idea what Comeback is, and Google yields way too many results. More info or a link please?

#5 Color change worked for me. Hopefully this makes sense.

I am going to invite SlowNickel in, he poops on my knowledge of agronomy and plant physiology.

 

[cbcool]

This is what i meant by comeback http://foxfarmfertilizer.com/index.php/item/bush-doctor-boomerang.html

 

[cbcool]

OK, lets just number each of your responses.

#1 So next time, I would send to Logan labs. Either way, ask them to weigh your dry soil-less mix before testing. Can't speak on the lab you used, but Logan will dry your samples for you when asked. That wont change your results much, but worth asking next time.

#2 yes, you are correct. That is why a foliar spray will be most effective IMO.

#3 Everything is about balance. Your tests show N in the soil, but excess of other cations blocking the uptake. Bypass that with foliar. When you say not broken down yet, I don't think that is case or at least something that can be determined from soil tests. Soil tests purely show whats in the soil, not what's available. Paste test or Tissue tests are far better for that. Tissue tests being the best.

Maybe a good attack would be to do a EWC slurry/AACT with quality castings. If you can find a high N EWC that would help, or add an additional N source mixed with the castings. Then foliar from there, that would take care of N and biolife. Careful not to load up on molasses if doing an act and make sure the tea is finished. You don't really want more Mg.

#4 No idea what Comeback is, and Google yields way too many results. More info or a link please?

#5 Color change worked for me. Hopefully this makes sense.

I am going to invite SlowNickel in, he poops on my knowledge of agronomy and plant physiology.

#1 yes fully agree to use Logan next time, I was quite disappointed with Colorado analytical.

#2 so stick with foliar, and avoid putting anything else in the soil that might create a further imbalance?

#3 the test showed 590ish lbs/acre organic N, but only 23ppm available N, at least that's how I understood it. So I assume there's N in there but hasn't been made available through microbial breakdown. Or is my understanding wrong?

#4 see post above

#5 ya I figured it out

And I'm not sure if this is true, but I remember reading somewhere that K should equal P but if K gets higher then P K will lockout P, is that true?

 

[slownickel]

Whooaaaaa

You have conductivity above 2. This is called getting salted out.

 

[slownickel]

Quickly get some powdered or regular milk. Dilute 5 or 6 parts water to 1 part milk. Drench the root area.

 

[slownickel]

Any idea what process they are using?

Your magnesium is off the charts. Your K for this CEC is low. But I don't believe this soil analysis. You must get rid of the carbonate influences. You all are getting very poor number without taking into consideration the influence of carbonates on soil analysis. Over the last 8 years or so, technology has advanced.

Flush with gypsum and send a sample to Spectrum to get a real soil analysis. M3, AA@8.2, Na, Al and nitrogens.