Hundreds of watts of CFL SOG in cardboard boxes in an attic (Alaskan Ice).

[L-Thirt33n]

Growing with CFL's is definitly controversial. There are up's and down's to both CFL and HPS lighting. For small personal grows they are perfect. It all depends on what YOU want out of the project. If you're growing for profit then you will NOT be happy with a CFL yield I will PROMISE you this...

The penetration that was mentioned has nothing to do with penetrating THROUGH the canopy of the plants to the leaves underneath. (It does but that's not as important.) You want penetration INTO THE LEAVES to stimulate the chlorophil. You will never get the same results with CFL as you would with a HPS. Likewise, you'll never get the same results with HPS as you would with the SUN! There's a lot of technical mumbo jumbo to prove that but basically Watt for Watt HPS gets better LEAF penetration, PERIOD.

If you put 400watts of CFL in a grow space and a 400watt HPS in another you will yield FAR MORE weight with the HPS than you will with the CFL. This is a fact, not just some guy letting his fingers run a muck. Given all other growing conditions are equal potency and quality should be exactly the same however!

DON'T EXPECT A GREAT YEILD WITH CFL LIGHTING!

As far as QUALITY is concerned...Overall plant potency is designated by the particular strains genetic make up...Results can and do vary based on growing conditions however.

But each strain has it's own genetically predetermined maximum amount of THC. You can MAXIMIZE your potency by giving the plants optimal growing conditions but you cannot exceed that plants genetics...The only way you can increase a plants potency is to introduce genetics that are determined to have higher THC levels...

So in short, as long as you keep the plant/s alive and as healthy as possible, no matter how much you get in weight, it will be just as potent as the same strain grown under an HPS. You just won't have as much! (some variables to this might be insufficient amounts of lighting or very poor growing conditions!)

 

[stink.whistler]

If you put 400watts of CFL in a grow space and a 400watt HPS in another you will yield FAR MORE weight with the HPS than you will with the CFL. This is a fact, not just some guy letting his fingers run a muck.

I'd love to see the test grows that proved that fact, could you provide some links?

 

[Δ-9]

There's a lot of technical mumbo jumbo to prove that but basically Watt for Watt HPS gets better LEAF penetration, PERIOD.

Could you please find that 'technical mumbo jumbo' that proves that? I am not one to accept unsourced information. Not saying you're wrong, but right now that's just a statement.

 

[L-Thirt33n]

Sure can! Be right back with some LUMEN comparisons and some other info!

 

[L-Thirt33n]

200watt CFL - Yields ~ 10,000 LUMEN

http://www.1000bulbs.com/150-to-200-Watt-Compact-Fluorscent/33999/

200watt HPS - Yields ~ 22,000 LUMEN

http://www.1000bulbs.com/200-Watt-HPS/525/

Now it's a fact! I can gather some more technical mumbo jumbo if you'd like but that's really all that is necessary. I can gather some of my botony class test results I did 2 yrs ago on this particular issue as well.

For a quick non-technical mumbo jumbo SURE method of testing this yourself, try this. Get a CFL bulb of equal wattage to a HPS bulb. Set them both up side by side. Now get two leaves from any plant... Now hold one leaf up to the CFL and one to the HPS. Which leaf has more light showing through it? Issue resolved...

You can do it that way or if you have access to a bolometer you can get some REAL results and put down DATA. (Which is what I did and I'm sure many others have too!)

And for any further proof READ (this doesn't necessarily prove it but these discussions have been discussed already.): http://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/172913-cfl-vs-hps-penetration-2.html

Any more questions?

 

[Mr. Tony]

By "small" I mean grows of 1 CFL in a PC case.
Also, I seem to recall Dr.Bud and several other members of this forum using CFL boxes with stationary lights; however I don't recall anyone telling them they need to bring the plants closer to the light.

sorry but your grow is small as well as a house fire waiting to happen. I consider the rubbermaid from i did with 6 42 watt bulbs small.

 

[zolar]

that light penetration is easy to demonstrate empirically with a light meter in the foliage i will check a cfl veg cab in foliage vs top of canopy and do the same for the hps cab


as distance from the light doubles the amount of light is 1/4 inverse square law light intensity

however some cfls do put out more usable lit in usable wavelents for a plant
so that altouh the lumen out put is low te available PAR
light [photosynthesis active radition] is actually more than the stronger light intensity from the brighter light

the chlorophyl is sensitive to different light than your eye
that why some LED colors are supposed to be much more
efficient than a white light to a plant cell

enough techie get an entertainment TV cab with doors on the front and make that a cabinet or a wardrobe unit or a deck storage box the cardboard thing is going to cost more in hassles and feedback than its worth will probably need lots of little tweaks repairas you go eating up lots of energy and time etc

 

[L-Thirt33n]

Without the Typos...lol.

Yes, like I said before there are ups and downs to both.

If CFLs put out the same lumens watt for watt then we'd have ourselves one hell of a different situation! But it's just not feasable. To acheive the same Lumen per watt of a 400watt HPS you would need over 600watts of CFL lighting.

They make HIGH OUTPUT Fluoros but they are tubes, not compact. And they also make very high wattage CFLs. But they cost double the price per watt compared to a HPS...

So as much of a pickle as it is you just have to deal with the facts and work with what you can...

 

[stink.whistler]

I can gather some of my botony class test results I did 2 yrs ago on this particular issue as well.

Cool, would love to see it. It would certainly be more relevant than talking about Lumens.

Anyway, what I am really interested in seeing is the proven facts re: the 400W grows you were talking about earlier. I haven't seen those threads, are they on ICMAG?

 

[Δ-9]

200watt CFL - Yields ~ 10,000 LUMEN

http://www.1000bulbs.com/150-to-200-Watt-Compact-Fluorscent/33999/

200watt HPS - Yields ~ 22,000 LUMEN

http://www.1000bulbs.com/200-Watt-HPS/525/

Now it's a fact! I can gather some more technical mumbo jumbo if you'd like but that's really all that is necessary. I can gather some of my botony class test results I did 2 yrs ago on this particular issue as well.

For a quick non-technical mumbo jumbo SURE method of testing this yourself, try this. Get a CFL bulb of equal wattage to a HPS bulb. Set them both up side by side. Now get two leaves from any plant... Now hold one leaf up to the CFL and one to the HPS. Which leaf has more light showing through it? Issue resolved...

You can do it that way or if you have access to a bolometer you can get some REAL results and put down DATA. (Which is what I did and I'm sure many others have too!)

And for any further proof READ (this doesn't necessarily prove it but these discussions have been discussed already.): http://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/172913-cfl-vs-hps-penetration-2.html

Any more questions?

My mistake, when I read "watt for watt" in your previous post, I interpreted it as "lumen for lumen" for some reason. HPS will do better than CFL watt per watt because they are more efficient. I believe CFL does better lumen for lumen, though, since the light spectrum is better suited to growing.

But yeah, watt for watt HPS will 'penetrate' more because they're more efficient.

 

[L-Thirt33n]

Cool, would love to see it. It would certainly be more relevant than talking about Lumens.

Anyway, what I am really interested in seeing is the proven facts re: the 400W grows you were talking about earlier. I haven't seen those threads, are they on ICMAG?

I never said I grew any 400watt grows! Never in my life have I...Nor would I. Unless I was helping someone else do it. Which I will be soon because: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=115022 .

I know people that HAVE grown indoors. But that was with 4,000watts of HPS but I never did any personal testing within those grow spaces...

I'm an outdoor cultivator, I'v said that NUMEROUS times...I don't like artificial light. And I try not to do indoor cultivation...Although things may change soon..

I'll go find some of my ol' datasheets from a couple experiments I did with light penetration for my botony class and see if I can upload some images of them. (I'll have to scan them.) That'll most likely have to happen tomorrow though...

 

[L-Thirt33n]

My mistake, when I read "watt for watt" in your previous post, I interpreted it as "lumen for lumen" for some reason. HPS will do better than CFL watt per watt because they are more efficient. I believe CFL does better lumen for lumen, though, since the light spectrum is better suited to growing.

But yeah, watt for watt HPS will 'penetrate' more because they're more efficient.

Absolutely! Lumen for Lumen CFLs dominate! But as I said before, it's just not feasable. Unless you're rick james!

HPS bulbs are designed purposely to be more radiant. CFLs are not...There are some that are! But they cost so much it's rediculous..

No pun. intended here fellas, just trying to help!

 

[stink.whistler]

I never said I grew any 400watt grows! Never in my life have I...

I thought when you said:

If you put 400watts of CFL in a grow space and a 400watt HPS in another you will yield FAR MORE weight with the HPS than you will with the CFL. This is a fact, not just some guy letting his fingers run a muck.

You meant that someone had proven this fact through a comparative grow. I'm not in a position to do so, but I would love to see someone do a 400WHPS 400WMH 400WCMH 400WCFL comparison grow. Identical conditions, identical strains, only difference being the light. It would be very interesting.

My guess is a 400W HID of any flavor would beat out the CFLs, but I would like to see it proven through experiment.

 

[L-Thirt33n]

Check this out...A little example.

200 Watt Compact Fluorescent CFL - Vegetative

$69.95 without shipping...

( http://growwurks.com/200-watt-compact-fluorescent-cfl-vegetative.aspx )

For two you'd be looking at 150USD! WOW, that's a good deal!

WRONG! Look at your Lumens...10,000 Lumen per bulb. Only 20,000 Lumen for 150 dollars?! That's a rip off if I ever saw it.

NEW High Pressure Sodium 250 watt HPS Grow Light

$145.94 Shipped to your door! Not too bad...Plus it comes with a ballast and a hood!

( http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-High-Pressure-Sodium-250-watt-HPS-Grow-Light-w-250w_W0QQitemZ400036723961QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item400036723961&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 )

Lets look at the Lumens...27,500 Lumens for ONE 250watt HPS.

That's ALMOST tripple the Lumens for LESS THAN the price of TWO CFL grow bulbs for a comparative 50 watt difference. And you're actually getting more watts for less cash!!

Just sayin...

 

[L-Thirt33n]

I thought when you said:

You meant that someone had proven this fact through a comparative grow. I'm not in a position to do so, but I would love to see someone do a 400WHPS 400WMH 400WCMH 400WCFL comparison grow. Identical conditions, identical strains, only difference being the light. It would be very interesting.

My guess is a 400W HID of any flavor would beat out the CFLs, but I would like to see it proven through experiment.

Nope...I wish I had done it or knew someone who did because it would be fun!

I'v done experiments with lighting but not for cannabis. I actually used an Elephant Ear plant, a 25watt CFL and a 25watt HPS. CFL bulbs can barely even shine through one. HPS does it so well it almost burned the damned thing...lol. (distance from the leaf was varied as a control but the results led to the same conclusion every time. An HPS bulb is more radiant!)

Now that doesn't mean that CFLs don't produce good usable light! As we've all noted CFLs do produce a more acute KELVIN compared to HPS or MH.

It would be hard to do an actual grow experiment between those bulbs because of the 'distance from the plants' variable...CFL's not being as radiant would require them to be closer to the leaves to penetrate into them correctly. So if you did the experiement you would have to figure out almost 2 types of controls...Would definitly be a task putting it into data!

 

[jtk707]

Theres a great thread for all the bickering about cfls http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=112217 . I think it is lame to lol at this guy trying to grow some medicine . So anyway I am waiting to see if he goes for the cardoard or upgrades .



CFL HID Peace jtk707

 

[Δ-9]

Check this out...A little example.

200 Watt Compact Fluorescent CFL - Vegetative

$69.95 without shipping...

( http://growwurks.com/200-watt-compact-fluorescent-cfl-vegetative.aspx )

For two you'd be looking at 150USD! WOW, that's a good deal!

WRONG! Look at your Lumens...10,000 Lumen per bulb. Only 20,000 Lumen for 150 dollars?! That's a rip off if I ever saw it.

NEW High Pressure Sodium 250 watt HPS Grow Light

$145.94 Shipped to your door! Not too bad...Plus it comes with a ballast and a hood!

( http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-High-Pressure-Sodium-250-watt-HPS-Grow-Light-w-250w_W0QQitemZ400036723961QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item400036723961&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50 )

Lets look at the Lumens...27,500 Lumens for ONE 250watt HPS.

That's ALMOST tripple the Lumens for LESS THAN the price of TWO CFL grow bulbs for a comparative 50 watt difference. And you're actually getting more watts for less cash!!

Just sayin...

I got the 42 watt CFLs for 7.95 each, 2750 lumens each. So 27500 lumens would cost me 79.50 in CFLs.

Also, one plant has sprouted. I'll have pictures tomorrow.

 

[L-Thirt33n]

I got the 42 watt CFLs for 7.95 each, 2750 lumens each. So 27500 lumens would cost me 79.50 in CFLs.

Also, one plant has sprouted. I'll have pictures tomorrow.

Sweet! That's not bad at all! I hope you make the best of it and I wish you the best with em as well...(have you thought about electricity costs?)

Yea they definitly have their place...Maybe it's here!?

I for one don't give a damn about either because my light will make all the lights in the world look like a tiny wittle spark in a giant raging hydrogen flame!

 

[centralcoastbud]

i've got both 2400 watts of HPS going as well as some small projects of "lifeless" style boxes under 2 x 36 watt cfl + 2 x 42 watt CFL. I can safely say that I have noticed no sacrifice between quality of HPS nug vs. CFL nug.... only the quantity. The last few pictures in my thread are of nug from my CFL run boxes if you want to take a peek.

 

[Δ-9]

(have you thought about electricity costs?

I haven't, but he has. It's not in my job description.