Humic Acids

[Clackamas Coot]

CT

I'm familiar with the group down in Corvallis and their 'perceived' positions on various vendors in the "CT Paradigm". I also participate in Jeff's email group as you do also.

I've been deeply involved with BioAg.com for several years in the winery industry as well as the orchard industry in Oregon's fruit industry out in Hood River, OR.

Our results with regard to 'Lenordite humic' issue aren't what we would have expected.

YMMV

 

[chef]

I needed a humic/fulvic gurus advice on another thread, looks like you guys have done your homework

What could I add? to insure I have an overabundance of the proper enzymes for breaking down dead tissue from air pruning?
I haven't had any problems, but see the possibility of stem/root rot in extreme cases & would like to fully understand what is responsible for breaking down dead root tissue etc.

If I'm not mistaken? Enzymes are responsible for the actual breaking down & Humics/Fulvics are the precursors.
Could you just add a certain enzyme?
Kinda gross, but think maggots on dead infected tissue like they use in medicine nowadays. Attack & strip to healthy tissue ASAP.

Thanks a bunch.

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

If I am using a organic mix of ewc/re-used ffof/blood/bone/perlite and use LK and liquid kelp @ 6% humic acid every watering- would I have humaic acid in the soil?

I am interested, though if not truely necessary as I woud like to take the KISS approach to tasty buds.

minds_I

PS: Does anyone have a link to evidense that the mad cow pathogen is going to be transfers to plant matter then through the action of burning is going to infect humans?

 

[CT Guy]

CT

I'm familiar with the group down in Corvallis and their 'perceived' positions on various vendors in the "CT Paradigm". I also participate in Jeff's email group as you do also.

I've been deeply involved with BioAg.com for several years in the winery industry as well as the orchard industry in Oregon's fruit industry out in Hood River, OR.

Our results with regard to 'Lenordite humic' issue aren't what we would have expected.

YMMV

Could your results be due to a poor Leonardite source or extraction process? Like you said, the industry in unregulated, therefore maybe you didn't have a good source. It would be comparable to me saying that compost tea doesn't work, after making my own brewer and guessing on the ingredients.

 

[CT Guy]

The bottom line is Leonardite is a good source because it is the most concentrated source. Economically, it is the only commercially viable source of true humic acids. Some people are mining peat bogs and getting a murky black liquid that is partly humic acids and partly “unrefined” organic constituents. Qualitatively, Leonardite contains the broadest range of molecular weights within the realm of humic acids. We do not subscribe to a specific ratio of fulvic to humic acids because they are all 4-dimensional. That is, they are in a constant state of flux. In the soil they are constantly connecting and releasing elements and compounds such that they are growing and then shrinking in molecular size. While fulvic acids are considered the most reactive because they are the smallest humic molecules, there is simply no concrete data as to what size molecules are doing what and how the various sizes interrelate. Fulvic acids would be most specifically used in hydroponics or similar operations as it is soluble in any pH range.

 

[vonforne]

Yeah, I see where you're coming from, and I don't think that humic acid is the end all of organic products. I just noticed that a lot of people get caught up in teas and guano and their soil mixes, and personally I would primarily rely on:

1. compost
2. compost tea
3. kelp (ascophyllum nodosum)
4. humic acids
5. fish hydrolysate
6. possibly a low NPK organic fertilizer

and probably in that order. I just wanted to bring up the benefits and properties of humic acids!

Cheers,
Tad

I have found this to be the most economical approach.

But as Mr. Celcius stated.....I use humic acids anyway. I have use a product called Rich Earth with good results.

I recycle my soil and as with everything I supplement with teas.

V

 

[chef]

Any headsup on enzymes to break down dead root tissue?

Thanks

 

[CT Guy]

Chef,

I didn't respond to you question because I didn't have a definitive answer. I could guess, but it would only be a guess. My hunch would be to apply a compost tea to get the beneficial biology onto the tissue to accelerate decomposition.

~Tad

 

[MrFista]

Gidday Chef

I can understand your want for enzymes, they're amazing wee things aren't they!

Now, to break down root systems rapidly you are needing to break down both cellulose and lignin. The sugars should be consumes as rapidly as they are freed up.

Enzymes for all these functions can be found in alfalfa meal.

Your soil should have compost in it, at least worm castings. Within the cast/compost are the microbes and fungi you require for this job as well. When recycling soil merely adding some nutrients (blood and bone, kelp, dolomite) and keeping it damp will bring the composting enzymes out in force.

Compost tea will work, but only if you have fungal tea. Bacteria can't put a dent in lignin.

 

[chef]

Thanks a bunch guys looks like I'm on the right track then...

@ MrFista: What do you think about Alfalfa Pellets?
Its the last thing on my soil list that I haven't picked up yet.
My reasoning was the N, extra feed for the herd & possibly getting some actual composting/heat action going in my big smart pots. I think I barely have enough soil mass now? (10-15gals)

I'm currently using...
Roots Organic Soil Mix, plus extra
Kelp Meal
Bone Meal
Blood Meal (non-bovine MG organic)
Lime
Gypsum
Oregonism Myco/Bacteria

I took cross sections of all my rootballs last run, all looked perfect.
Solid mass of white angel hair roots, not a tap root in sight.

Adding next run...
Alfalfa Pellets or Meal
1cup charcoal pellets in bottom 2" of soil (buffer, chelating action ala' Terra Preta & because my Grandpa used to toss a couple briquettes in the bottom of pots
Brewer running Mayan Mycrozyme
Gravity drip to waste system.

The raised soil moisture levels from the new drip system is why I'm really investigating this. Smart Pots help keep moisture in check, but I'm planning on REALLY pushin'em with the drip.

Thanks again!

 

[chef]

Eureka!

The same guys that make Mayan Mycrozyme also make Prozyme

Humboldt Nutrients Prozyme Enzymatic Concentrate is made up of over 80 different enzymes in a concentrated form. The enzymes present in PROZYME will break down dead root mass, starches, carbohydrates, and nutrients to make them readily available to the plant. PROZYME will encourage the development of beneficial bacteria, and catalyze water and elements.

Sounds like just what the doctor ordered, thanks again.

 

[Microbeman]

Clackamas Coot,

I have to politely disagree. Even your link states the benefits of Humates derived from Leonardite. There is a lot of misinformation in regards to humic acid values and ratings, therefore it is important to go with a reputable company. HOWEVER, your initial statement is way off the mark.


Humic and fulvic acids are compounds of one chemical nature and origin. Their fragments do not have principal differences in elementary content. They only differ in their degree of polycondensation, or in other words, in molecule weight. Based on the fact that in natural humus the content level of fulvic acid is statistically insignificant, the stated arguments that fulvic acids are more important for plant stimulation are fully void on scientific grounds. This is also confirmed by the well-known fact that the maximum effect of humic acid application is achieved through foliar treatment of the plants, when the humic acids are easy assimilated by the overhead foliage of the plant. This myth is most often portrayed by commercial entities trying to sell "more value" to their product over the competition. In a majority of cases, we have found that the actual fulvic acid content is greatly overstated by commercial companies, leaving even less credence to this myth! Many various aspects of this ongoing topic will be covered in our Technical Articles section. Click here to view an article on this subject.

I'm a little confused. Are you stating that humic acid (or derivatives) are assimilated foliarly or that this is a myth? If you claim that humic acids are assimilated foliarly could you point me to some accredited or reviewed literature concerning this.

In Canada I bought 80% humic acid from http://www.blackearth.com There is a lot of lab work and research data on their website for those interested.

I admit to very little experience with humic acid as the humates produced from my worm bins and barn are sufficient in my opinion. I'd like to learn more about this subject.

Tim

 

[sophisto]

Wow, I missed this thread somehow, glad to be tuned in.....

 

[habeeb]

can humic acid just be top feed? and if so at what rate? thanks

 

[vonforne]

Lenordite is best added at the time of mixing the soil. It takes some time to break down similar to lime in the soil. The liquid form is best used with teas and watered in.

V

 

[habeeb]

Lenordite is best added at the time of mixing the soil. It takes some time to break down similar to lime in the soil. The liquid form is best used with teas and watered in.

V

right on

 

[texas grass]

whats the consistancy of humic/fulvic acids?

i just got some a combo of both humic and fulvic acids and this stuff is thicker than the thickest maple syrup. i can hold the gallon upside down and nothing run out for 30 seconds.