How to cover up heat signature?

[qupee]

This is actually an idea I was running through my head, but being as I have 0 duct working experience I fear I may just mess things up worse for the house lol.



Yes you heard right, its actually roughly 6.4k per room, we are still working on the layouts so we have maneuver rooms to inspect the plants and do hand work. I am leaning towards home made smart pots with either subs SS mix or Revs TLO mix (Ive run the TLO before with good results) with blumats for daily water maintenance and hand watering for the innoculant teas and ferting.

As far as destroying the house I do not know what you mean other than the basic construction which he wants done, it was the investors idea that my partner and I use HIS personal house that he and his family just moved out of since its still 1/2 of its value and he also doesn't want it just sitting as this town is notorious for squatters. He wants to upgrade the house before he sells it, so our ultimate goal as a team is going to be use this house for 2 yrs, fix it up with him and sell it. He said he will even give us a cut of the sales price for helping him fix it up to sell quality, I am a licensed custom marble & granite company owner, my partner is a co-owner of a glass company and owner of a cleaning/porter service, the investor owns a drywall and painting company, only thing we are missing is a licensed electrician.

I missed at first that it was an investor/partners house. Thought maybe it was a rental. What I meant about destroying it was mainly the moisture. There will be a metric shit-ton of water inside that house. Suppose that could be managed if you're doing sealed rooms and dehuey's, but it doesn't sound like that's the plan.

Take my comments with a grain of salt because I've never run anything close to that large. But 24k is going to generate a lot of heat. You'll have to move a lot of hot, moist air out of the house and I don't see how. Underground is the only thing that comes to mind and that's not usually an option in a populated area (assuming that since you have to keep up appearances to neighbors), as others have said trying to go into the sewer is problematic.

I don't know, but I hope you come up with something I'd be interested to hear how the other house got shut down. Investor get spooked or did it get caught?

They'll still be able to see the signature of that 1000 degree lamp itself...even if the room is kept 70.

I guess if you're running sealed environments your best bet would be to use IR block reflectix on the ceilings/walls... and use those IR blocker material "covers" for your reflectors.


This investor must have one massive budget in mind.

No, I'm sorry, but that's flat out wrong. You cannot see a heat spot through a wall. Plenty of vids of IR cams, particularly on police choppers, that will back that up. Lots of threads here on it.

I have heard of others venting the lights into their furnace/AC return duct so it defuses it into the hole house.

Do not do this. 2400 sq ft, you could get away with 2-3kw flower diffusing through the house before you have moisture problems. 6kw much less 20kw waaayyy too much moisture it needs to be removed from the structure.

EDIT: If you're talking just the lights you'll get further, but nowhere near 20kw the whole house will be glowing (on IR) hot.


Also, Sir_Syzurp, getting (I'd say buy but rent works) a hand-held IR camera will be well worth it, although I think you're nowhere near a workable idea to manage 20+kw of heat, yet.

 

[FlowerFarmer]

No, I'm sorry, but that's flat out wrong. You cannot see a heat spot through a wall. Plenty of vids of IR cams, particularly on police choppers, that will back that up. Lots of threads here on it.

My apologies.. you are correct. I was mixing my thoughts of FLIR with their scanners capable of detecting changes in density that they are now actively using in traffic stops (can see if your bumper is hollow, things in your tires, etc). This is being used to bust croppage coming out of the west... they are nailing tons of you CA exporters coming east simply by sitting on their favorite mile marker and watching their scanners. They see it.. know its there.. and get a dog to false hit or other means to allow them to search...

not Flir - that backscatter technology or something.

Point being however is your not hanging 25k in a house and eliminating the heat signature. The heat has to go somewhere.

I see growers spending tons of money on IR block to wrap their room and cover their reflectors, but fail to achieve anything because they still have to send that heat somewhere...thus they may eliminate a signature in one area, but create another one in the process.

 

[Rolledup4s]

Could you pipe it all into a single room with a independent mini split or some kinda ice box chiller setup?

 

[cody2white]

If you have 4 dedicated acs one for each room i dont see any problem you running 24k. Your electric bill will drop your jaw but you can do it. Go big or go home right.

24k isnt something to sneeze at but i seen bigger busts on the news that were popped by a rat than heat or to many lights.

Remember no tell no smell no sell. Your potentially looking at prison time if shit goes down so cover allll your bases!

 

[FlowerFarmer]

you can do anything for a limited period of time.

How long you plan to do this?

It'd be tough to sleep with that residential electric bill.. regardless of the proceeds coming in.

 

[qupee]

My apologies.. you are correct. I was mixing my thoughts of FLIR with their scanners capable of detecting changes in density that they are now actively using in traffic stops (can see if your bumper is hollow, things in your tires, etc). This is being used to bust croppage coming out of the west... they are nailing tons of you CA exporters coming east simply by sitting on their favorite mile marker and watching their scanners. They see it.. know its there.. and get a dog to false hit or other means to allow them to search...

not Flir - that backscatter technology or something.
View Image

Point being however is your not hanging 25k in a house and eliminating the heat signature. The heat has to go somewhere.

I see growers spending tons of money on IR block to wrap their room and cover their reflectors, but fail to achieve anything because they still have to send that heat somewhere...thus they may eliminate a signature in one area, but create another one in the process.

Ya backscatter x-ray's a whole different ballgame. Scary. But thankfully they can't chopper over a city and peek in everyone's houses with that kind of tech (yet, f*ck).

I also agree it's going to be a monstrous bill. I believe power companies in general are happy to have the money but that much can be considered a safety issue and they might be required to check up on it (not sure) so I'd also be thinking about an easy explanation, like oh I powdercoat and have some really high wattage electric ovens running for hours on end.

 

[Sir_Syzurp]

I also agree it's going to be a monstrous bill. I believe power companies in general are happy to have the money but that much can be considered a safety issue and they might be required to check up on it (not sure) so I'd also be thinking about an easy explanation

you can do anything for a limited period of time.

How long you plan to do this?

If you have 4 dedicated acs one for each room i dont see any problem you running 24k. Your electric bill will drop your jaw but you can do it. Go big or go home right.

Remember no tell no smell no sell. Your potentially looking at prison time if shit goes down so cover allll your bases!

Could you pipe it all into a single room with a independent mini split or some kinda ice box chiller setup?

I missed at first that it was an investor/partners house. Thought maybe it was a rental. What I meant about destroying it was mainly the moisture. There will be a metric shit-ton of water inside that house. Suppose that could be managed if you're doing sealed rooms and dehuey's, but it doesn't sound like that's the plan.

Take my comments with a grain of salt because I've never run anything close to that large. But 24k is going to generate a lot of heat. You'll have to move a lot of hot, moist air out of the house and I don't see how. Underground is the only thing that comes to mind and that's not usually an option in a populated area (assuming that since you have to keep up appearances to neighbors), as others have said trying to go into the sewer is problematic.

I don't know, but I hope you come up with something I'd be interested to hear how the other house got shut down. Investor get spooked or did it get caught?

Looks like you've got the amperage capacity.

You're over 100a in lighting alone @240v.. that is not include the cooling power you'll need to cool and veg with.


Pulling 25k + cooling and veg wattage in a residential is asking for trouble... unless you live in a area where this is acceptable/normal.

Post pictures! Good luck.

Honestly this is the largest indoor grow I will have ever done, and this is supposed the be the ground floor... our investor has another house he wants us to light up too and potential for others while the housing market is still down... but there is no way just my partner and I could handle 2+ full houses.

The cause of his first investment to flop was he didn't own the house, he and the guy growing for him rented a house in a friend of theirs name, that house was also in a very crime infested area of town which cops crawl through constantly. Another stupid action that I think drew attention to the location was the grower was having little hang outs with his buds and letting people in the house who could obviously smell the grow and I wouldn't be surprised if the dude even showed the grow off. Without getting in to the whole thing, the investor cut ties with him completely and has since become very paranoid, thus the camera system and us setting up a facade schedule and back story we even have fake names to give the neighbors. We haven't begun construction on the house yet or even finished doing our shopping for the type of set up we want. We have all the tables and res's for old style flood tables, but I don't like not being able to work the center of the flood tables without a step stool and I also hate the mugginess the flood tables leave in rooms. I am interested in blumats or an auto feed system with home made smart pots like I said earlier, OR if our investor wants to shell out the extra cash we are looking at those crazy expensive undercurrent systems.

I want to thank you for bringing it back to my attention that that much water is going to change the atmosphere to an extreme, I honestly didn't even put that in to consideration mostly because of the 4 AC units I wrote it off thinking that the evap systems the ACs run and the few other commercial AC units we have would cover it, maybe a few de-humidifiers in the rooms would help? My partner has suggested we buy 4 deep freezers and run each rooms exhaust in to the freezers which I think could work fairly well, but will also cause our power bill to go up even more.

The power bill is going to get placed in my companies name because we do natural stone fabrication, which can explain a high power bill and a high water bill (almost all the machines run with water jetting on to the slabs). I am not sure if Nevada is using backscatter on the streets yet, I do know that they have begun recording busts, arrests, and chases via private contracts predator planes.

I am hoping its not a pipe dream, but overall goal is to put enough money together to open up a compassion club that can operate under the laws of Nevada and actually stay open.

Pics of the house/construction are a big "if" but the actual grows that will happen Im sure I could slip in some photos, the investor knows Im part of the forums and asked if I could refrain from showing or saying anything that could potentially give us away.

We will be starting with Pineapple Express, Cherry Pie, Sour Grapes, and 5 unknown strains I am raising right now.

 

[cody2white]

I personally think you said to much.

 

[qupee]

maybe redact the state and specific type of business, cause that does narrow it down a lot

 

[supermanlives]

I have IR blocking film that you can buy at most online hydro stores. I cannot verifiy that i works due to not having the equipment to test. Its basically two metallic paper sheets with bubble wrap in between,

I first made sure the rooms were sealed, and then put this on all sides and ceiling. My exhaust runs into another room that i covered the ceiling with IR blocker. prolly overkill but peace of mind was worth it.

stay baked...hb

ir blocking film = lame tek foil or reflectix. any radient heat barrier will work. but you got to vent somewhere or use ac. there is where ya got to get creative .

 

[Bud buster]

You can vent in your sewer you should use some precautions like a back flow preventer that can be installed on the cleanout. Get a threaded joint to thread into the trap then attach the back flow preventer then a fan and another flap valve a dryer type installed on a horizontal section some are spring loaded just in case your fan stops working if you run a few fans in line you can get more flow like one near the trap and others at the lights. I'd use pvc pipe as far as you could go the air should flow down the drain from the 45 degree angle and a 3 or 4 inch pipe has 4 or 5 times the volume of the 2 inch vent pipe that is connected up the line and teed off so it is the path of least resistance there is no reason it wouldn't work it is just limited by the pipe size and how many fans you have pushing. I'd still use a carbon filter or ozone to cover the smell but this would get the heat and moisture out of the house and i think it is the cheapest and best method with no real down side. I could only find one reference on Icmag https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=209534&highlight=sewer venting in the toilet holes but many on rollitup here is one on counter surveillance http://www.rollitup.org/outdoor-growing/6569-counter-surveillance.html it has a few suggestions search sewer not vent you would get to many hits.

 

[Sir_Syzurp]

Was just tryin to explain myself, I know forums leave alot of open questions. I hate that we as a community have to cover our tracks like this to achieve something that can change the planet if accepted.

 

[cody2white]

Also chimney idea is bad. I was watching discovery channel DEA and the guy had a whole basement going and exhausting out the chimney and the heli could clearly see he wasnt having a fire going 24/7. It makes sense once you think about it. Same with a dryer vent going all day. Do you really have that many cloths?

 

[Sir_Syzurp]

What about my partners idea of running the exhausts in to deep freezers that are plugged in and kept on coldest setting?

 

[Holdin']

Air conditioned, sealed with co2 would be the shit. Youre going to have to get a little creative... a few ways to do this. Isolate each room? Or? What comes to mind is have adequate cooling for each room, keep air moving from room to room and throughout, plus using the homes existing ductwork/a/c to maintain temp throughout the home if needed. Then, you are going to need fresh air as well if you dont plan on running co2. In which that case you will need active or passive fresh air intake(s), in which then would require ultimately exhausting air, requiring smell removal. Lots of things to consider here.

24k x 3,500 BTU per 1k = 70k BTU will cool the lights, plus the regular load of the building, and a bit more for good measure. Additional dehumidification will be necessary. Venting the heat into freezers SOUNDS like a good idea, but I dont see it as being the least bit logical with all the fine tuning involved with that...

But idk, just rambling. Good luck man.

 

[BrnCow]

If a house had a room within a room the inner room exhausting into the outer room with a good venting at the top of all rooms with a circulating fan in every wall distributing air around the whole house 24/7, it might make the whole house temperature appear even. Put the ir reflector/blocking film under the roof in the whole house and vent towards the center and allow the hot air to migrate to vents on both ends with low powered fans sucking out might not show much heat coming out. Maybe build two boxes in the attic to vent into and add an AC duct in each to help cool the exhaust before it exits into the unboxed attic space...sort of a maze the heat has to travel through before it is allowed to exit...you might just cool it enough to get by...you could try it empty before you load the house and adjust it until it is right...rent a thermal unit from Lowes and check at different times day and night for a few days...

 

[qupee]

What about my partners idea of running the exhausts in to deep freezers that are plugged in and kept on coldest setting?

You can't put air in unless air comes out (can only build so much pressure), and if you're just blowing air through a freezer I don't think it would cool it enough on it's way through. Also seems inefficient compared to AC.

It's something to keep in mind though with any kind of lung room, you can't get air into it unless air's coming out of the room at another point.

 

[Sir_Syzurp]

I just stumbled upon this reading up on water jacketed lights (I would prefer to stay away from water jackets though)

Its called an icebox heat exchange, there are 2 videos of it in action at a hydro convention.

Water chilled air cooling systems showing 58 degrees on the exhaust blow out temp with 3 1000w bulbs in 8" ducting hoods.

 

[twelsch24]

What about my partners idea of running the exhausts in to deep freezers that are plugged in and kept on coldest setting?

You're in way over your head.

T

 

[Holdin']

I just stumbled upon this reading up on water jacketed lights (I would prefer to stay away from water jackets though)
Its called an icebox heat exchange, there are 2 videos of it in action at a hydro convention.

Water chilled air cooling systems showing 58 degrees on the exhaust blow out temp with 3 1000w bulbs in 8" ducting hoods.

I would stay away from those, considering the scale of your design. 3 1ks being cooled by one of those coils seems like a stretch to me, regardless of the video. 1k = 3500 BTU. 14,500 BTU plus the ambient load and still cooling the air to 58°... I really wouldn't trust that regardless of that video. And either way, all of those units plus the equipment to run them PROPERLY... Just stick to conventional cooling.

See my post above.

With what you are trying to do it really makes most sense to NOT run air cooled hoods and just have adequate A/C.

And really, forget the deep freezer idea. That is just not feasible.

Heres what you need: a shitload of cooling. You mentioned 4 a/c units in a previous post, do you know how many total BTU/hr we're talking here?