How clean does my coco need to be?

[reddy1]

why the misconception? numbers don't lie and i've tried about 6 different types of coco and they've all got high ppm runoffs, lowest i saw was like 600(0.8EC) from atami b'cuzz. usually 2800ppm, something like that from the bricks. like 200ppm of salt is toxic to plants and this shit grows and is harvested next to the ocean.

i flush until the water runs clear, makes me more comfortable i guess. but you guys don't think that's necessary? what about the fine particles, flushing those adds to the possible root space.

i cant believe buddin_904 you don't flush coco and slowandeasy feeds 1.4 EC(1000ppm) to seedlings and clones after a week. just crazy talk. i think back to when i started coco and i think those were the first two mistakes i made, didn't flush enough and fed too much. if your're not stretching the truth i really admire what you're doing because i didn't think that's possible, i may have to rethink how i'm doing things.

 

[Buddler]

Now, if you are not using Canna Coco...I HIGHLY suggest rinsing your Coco really well...then pre-charging. Bricks and other brand are not nearly as clean. Good luck

I disagree with your statement. First off, starting seeds in Coco is very easy! Just use very small cups cut down and keep the Coco damp, not soaked. Having too large of a cup can lead to over-watering. I pre-charge my Canna Coco with half strength nutes. All of my seedlings get fed full strength nutes within a week. I use a modified 6/9 recipe, and full strength is 1.4 EC.

You can baby your plants if you like, but I know 100 percent that ALL of my clones and seedlings grow much faster and healthier at 1.4 EC within one week, half strength is weak sauce! I never get burn, and feeding half strength causes yellowing because they want more.

Hi slow and easy Could you tell me what type of ferts your using that you can feed one week old seedlings 1.4 ec ,cause i wanna try that out without roasting them out their beer cups .Ive always wait for a couple sets of leaves before feeding them or when they start to go limey Scared im gonna burn them.i always rinse the bricks too for high salt content. B

 

[slowandeasy]

Hi slow and easy Could you tell me what type of ferts your using that you can feed one week old seedlings 1.4 ec ,cause i wanna try that out without roasting them out their beer cups .Ive always wait for a couple sets of leaves before feeding them or when they start to go limey Scared im gonna burn them.i always rinse the bricks too for high salt content. B

I use a modified 6/9 GH recipe...half strength just slows me down. If you use bricks, I suggest flushing...then pre-charging with half strength nutes.

 

[slowandeasy]

why the misconception? numbers don't lie and i've tried about 6 different types of coco and they've all got high ppm runoffs, lowest i saw was like 600(0.8EC) from atami b'cuzz. usually 2800ppm, something like that from the bricks. like 200ppm of salt is toxic to plants and this shit grows and is harvested next to the ocean.

i flush until the water runs clear, makes me more comfortable i guess. but you guys don't think that's necessary? what about the fine particles, flushing those adds to the possible root space.

i cant believe buddin_904 you don't flush coco and slowandeasy feeds 1.4 EC(1000ppm) to seedlings and clones after a week. just crazy talk. i think back to when i started coco and i think those were the first two mistakes i made, didn't flush enough and fed too much. if your're not stretching the truth i really admire what you're doing because i didn't think that's possible, i may have to rethink how i'm doing things.

Crazy Talk? Maybe you should start reading your plants, and experimenting with different nute strengths. If you do not believe me that you can feed 1.4 EC on rooted clones and seedlings, you are the one who is CRAZY! Do you need pictures as proof? Half Strength, even when using CFL's, does nothing but slow things down for me. I use a modified 6/9 recipe, and if you use GH nutes as well...you should for surely rethink how you do things! Trust me, gain nothing by telling you this.

I use Canna Coco, and pre-charge my Coco with half strength nutes. I have had trouble with other Coco if not rinsed well. To claim all Coco does not need to be flushed, is wrong IMO. Once my clones and seedlings need to be watered, they both get full strength. If you are using different Coco or different nutes, I cannot claim how your plants will respond. Good luck!

 

[slowandeasy]

thank god someone agrees with my viewpoint on coco....ive never used canna, but im firmiliar with other brands such as sunleaves, GH, and my new favorite botanicare.

you absolutely dont need to do any FLUSHING!! to brick or bagged coco.....you just need to hydrate or water in a nutrient solution. something at the strength of what youll be feeding them with. 1st couple of waters give ample run off and your smooth sailing. no ill effects...no yellow nor burnt leaves.

flushing brick or bag coco is a HUUUUGE misconception on here.....

Wrong! Do not tell people that all Coco is the same, that is just bad advice. I have first hand experience with bricks and bags, and have been burnt by unclean Coco. I am glad you have never had a bad experience....but MANY people have had problems arise due to salty or pre nuted Coco. And watering to run off on plants without a good root structure just slows things down. If you have good Coco and pre-nute it first, keep your Coco damp...not soaked, until your root system is good....then water to run-off as much as you want.

 

[whodare]

pre bagged coco from a reputable manufacturer should need no rinsing... the high ppm runoff is from their pre-charge... mostly cal-mag, and to really test it properly you need to take a specific size sample and put it into a certain amount of water otherwise as you pour through you gather salt from alot of coir and end up with an inflated ppm reading...

mistakes people make and blame coco are wrong ph, nutes to strong to start, over watering at early stage, letting it dry out to far..

heres some proof for you guys who insist on washing perfectly good coir... Botanicare loose coco unwashed...

edit: feed full strength no run off

 

[reddy1]

If you do not believe me that you can feed 1.4 EC on rooted clones and seedlings, you are the one who is CRAZY! Do you need pictures as proof?

relax, i'm not attacking you, you just made IMHO a bold claim.

i'll take those pictures you're offering and i'll feed 1.4EC on 2 separate clones and feed my current rate to 2 identical clones, lets see what happens. i'm not afraid of burning 2 clones.

you feed every watering too?

 

[ambertrich]

Maybe I'm just lucky as well, but I have used Canna, GH, Sunleaves and Botanicare coco and never need to flush-be it bag, brick or 5kg block(except for the Sunleaves, that stuff was shit).
Botanicare is my preferred product, but Canna and GH both work well.
I just hydrate the coco with a charge of full strenght Lucas plus CalMg and Silica or Maxibloom plus CalMG and Silica.
Start seedlings or clones right in a cup or 3" pot and keep moist until roots are down and then water till a bit of run off. Then when ready to up pot,
I run recirculatiing E&F with no problems, again with no rinsing.
(fogot, have used the Burpee? brand that Lowes carries, another crap brand, definately need to rinse that one-killed some good seed with that stuff)

Go with a good brand of coco, and good luck with you grow.

 

[slowandeasy]

relax, i'm not attacking you, you just made IMHO a bold claim.

i'll take those pictures you're offering and i'll feed 1.4EC on 2 separate clones and feed my current rate to 2 identical clones, lets see what happens. i'm not afraid of burning 2 clones.

you feed every watering too?

Yes I feed every watering, but when roots are not well developed....that may not be everyday. I have done side by side comparisons, with seedlings and clones with GH 6/9 modified recipie. Half strength grow much slower, and look pale in color. It is not a bold statement by any means. Read H3ad's thread, he feeds full strength just as fast. I recently started 3 different strains, 2 of each seeds. I fed 1 set of 3 half strength, the other half was full strength. Full strength blew the others set away, and never had a single burn. I quit feeding half strength, because it was a waste of time and energy.

Mind you this is with Canna Coco, in very small cups, pre-charged with half strength nutes...so about .7 EC for me. If you use to large of a cup or different Coco, results could differ. The reason my seedlings and clones adapt to full strength so fast, is because they NEED to be fed! Over-water your Coco and roots do not grow fast, and your coco will remain soaked for too long.


I will go snap a few pics of some PERFECT looking clones, that are under 46 watts of CFLs getting fed 1.4 EC from day 1 of needing to be watered. The reason I say not all Coco is created equal, is because I have been doing the same formula for a long time now. I tried BCuzz once, doing the same exact process as Canna Coco....and results were not as good. I also used a brick of Burpee one time, and that shit was full of salt. Really the only thing that matters is if it works for you....but I know for a fact there is such a thing as unclean fresh Coco.

BTW, I have hooked my seedlings up to Blumats within 10 days at full strength, and they flourish!!

 

[reddy1]

here's what i'm not getting, 6/9 in RO is about 600ppm. you're feeding 1.4 EC, that converts to 980ppm. what's wrong here?

can't find where head says to feed like that here's rez's take...

Veg,Feed:

6ml flora micro
9ml flora bloom

Use the above 1/2-strength on seedlings and clones to 10" tall,then feed full-strength>on.

i did feed full strength 6/9, i'll try 1000ppm tomorrow. can't hurt to try. i have a plant in flower right now that burns if it goes over 415ppm, with daily runoff!!! sour bubble, other phenos aren't as sensitive.

i don't understand what you mean overwater your coco. you cannot oversaturate coco IMO. constant water availability maintains pH, why i don't skip days with waterings. i have before without much consequence, but it makes more sense to me to do it daily, smartpots help dry them out fast anyways.

 

[slowandeasy]

here's what i'm not getting, 6/9 in RO is about 600ppm. you're feeding 1.4 EC, that converts to 980ppm. what's wrong here?

can't find where head says to feed like that here's rez's take...





i did feed full strength 6/9, i'll try 1000ppm tomorrow. can't hurt to try. i have a plant in flower right now that burns if it goes over 415ppm, with daily runoff!!! sour bubble, other phenos aren't as sensitive.

i don't understand what you mean overwater your coco. you cannot oversaturate coco IMO. constant water availability maintains pH, why i don't skip days with waterings. i have before without much consequence, but it makes more sense to me to do it daily, smartpots help dry them out fast anyways.

I did not quote Rez, because I do not agree with his veg strength...and neither does H3ad. I said "modified" for a reason...I use Magi-Cal, since I use RO and drip clean. I do not even have to check my numbers, it is 1.4 everytime. I beg to differ that you can not oversaturate Coco. If your Roots are much smaller than your pot...your plant and roots will not grow as fast. I have used Clear Cups with a cover cup, so I can watch root growth for a very long time. Sure your plants will not die if you drench it, but the roots will not seek moisture if the Coco is too wet. Which is why I use 9oz cups cut down to start clones and seedlings. The faster the roots fill your cup, the more they NEED to be watered. When they need to be watered, they grow faster than just sitting in an overly-moist Coco.

I hand water my clones and seedlings, and then they go into Smart Pots with Blumats. The Blumats drip about every 3-4 seconds, but never to run-off...I hand water if needed to keep the whole pot moist. Drip Clean is used to avoid salt build up, I hand water, to run-off in Flower 3 times with Kool Bloom. Then they Get 14 days flush. I have some Sour Bubble ready to chop in 2 days, they are fully flushed by hand. I check my run-off daily. My point is, you do not have to saturate your Coco to have excellent results. The best thing to do is read your plants, when hand watering...the object is to water daily. But during seedling and cloning phases, damp is best....the roots explode much faster,thicker, and more white. This will result is faster growth all over.

 

[slowandeasy]

Here is an example of Full strength nutes on clones that rooted 8 days ago. BTW, I forgot to mention...I do not top feed clones or seedlings. If the coco drys out a little on top I dampen it...but bottom feeding promotes root growth downward. Once the roots fill the cup good, they get drenched from the top. Here are some nice examples of what I prefer to do. I use clear cups, so I SEE what the moisture level does to the roots. Too wet, the roots are thin. When just moist, they will look like this.







https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=22766&pictureid=604948



Here is an example of how I bottom feed:




https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=22766&pictureid=604949



Here is a group shot of some small clones. Notice how nice the leaves look, if you feed half strength...they will be pale...and grow much slower.



https://www.icmag.com/ic/album.php?albumid=22766&pictureid=604950




Now do you need more proof? I can show you pictures of my bigger Sour Bubbles, the mothers of some of those clones. They have been fed 1.4 EC their whole life, and are really nice...and huge!!!!

 

[statusquo]

^Awesome tek/pics man. I have been pondering coco for a long time as, IMO, its the best of both worlds. Reusable medium but more leeway than straight hydro, great water retention with good breath-ability. Also just seems rather intuitive and forgiving in general (granted you are in the garden every day). I think I will dedicate a quarter of my next round (perpetual grow) to coco. I am going to use your clone method and then go straight to 3 gallon smart pots. I already have them and the bluemats so I will be able to copy you to the T...can't argue with results

Again, thank you! K+

 

[Buddler]

Slow and Easy .Nice pics and great looking plants .Im running the modified 6/9 as well gonna try bottom feeding my seedlings with it and see them take off. Thanks Buddler

 

[reddy1]

sorry for the thread going off topic.

I use 6ml/gallon GH flora micro and
9ml/gallon GH flora Bloom

1/2 strength for seedlings and freshly rooted clones

Full strength from the beginning of Veg until they begin bud formation
then

9ml/gallon GH flora bloom up until 2 weeks prior to harvest

Then plain water to finish.

clones look great for 8 days old!! how dry do you let them go before watering? cups are perfect for young coco plants cause they dry out faster, i get that. once a day has always worked for me.

i understand that roots seek out oxygen but daily watering also brings fresh oxygen, maintains pH and nutrient levels, flushes salts, prevents bacteria and other nasties from building.

and you can fix it by watering more often...
Overwatering is a bullshit concept... Improper watering causes stagnation and under-oxygenation... INCREASING the frequency of watering solves this problem completely...

If there was really any such thing as too much water, then Deep Water Culture would not work.... The problem that you remain so confused about is lack of oxygen, which is solved by increasing the watering frequency...

It's so simple, and I have proved it to work over and over and over in my garden...

The only way to overwater coco is by not watering it enough...

I'm not going to argue this anymore, since I have done the experimentation and proved it to myself beyond doubt... Learn from my experience or not I don't care...

My yields are always higher when the containers never dry out.

then he kind of contradicts himself here, i see why there's so much confusion.

I feed clones full strength from the time they're fully rooted onward.
When I transplant, I transplant into damp coco and skip a couple of days waterings, and then start watering regularly.

what does he mean fully rooted? like you asked him. so you feed full on when you notice roots on the side of your cup?

 

[gaiusmarius]

what people have to remember is that we are growing a easy to grow plant. there are many ways to grow healthy vigorous plants using coco.

canna coco a+b full strength gives you 2.0, so half stregnth is a good start for clones first feeding, upon planting the rw cubes on the coco slabs it's fine to go to ec 1.4 with most strains, although i have in the past raised it slower, when i filled my tank last night for my newest batch ec was 1.4 but i know it does depend on your strain, some will prefer lower ec levels. in the end giving slightly less then they could take is safer then giving slightly more then they can take. then you also have to consider how adaptable cannabis plants are, in the end how ever you treat them from the beginning that's what they will mostly adapt too, when it comes to nutrient strength.

 

[buddin_904]

why the misconception? numbers don't lie and i've tried about 6 different types of coco and they've all got high ppm runoffs, lowest i saw was like 600(0.8EC) from atami b'cuzz. usually 2800ppm, something like that from the bricks. like 200ppm of salt is toxic to plants and this shit grows and is harvested next to the ocean.

i flush until the water runs clear, makes me more comfortable i guess. but you guys don't think that's necessary? what about the fine particles, flushing those adds to the possible root space.

i cant believe buddin_904 you don't flush coco and slowandeasy feeds 1.4 EC(1000ppm) to seedlings and clones after a week. just crazy talk. i think back to when i started coco and i think those were the first two mistakes i made, didn't flush enough and fed too much. if your're not stretching the truth i really admire what you're doing because i didn't think that's possible, i may have to rethink how i'm doing things.

your only wasting your time big guy....im only giving this personally experienced advice from many runs of various brands of brick coco.....you should start to believe that i dont "flush" the coco....im heavily against this practice as its a huge waste of time. i think most problems people have with coco is they flush it to too low of a ppm and the coco steals the little nutes they apply. defiencies and what not.

anyways...you should try it your self and definately rethink the way you do things.....could it hurt to hydrate a brick with a nute solution....and pop clones in....and examine the perfectly normal growth....

and im about to requote that guys pic of non flushed botanicare

 

[buddin_904]

pre bagged coco from a reputable manufacturer should need no rinsing... the high ppm runoff is from their pre-charge... mostly cal-mag, and to really test it properly you need to take a specific size sample and put it into a certain amount of water otherwise as you pour through you gather salt from alot of coir and end up with an inflated ppm reading...

mistakes people make and blame coco are wrong ph, nutes to strong to start, over watering at early stage, letting it dry out to far..

heres some proof for you guys who insist on washing perfectly good coir... Botanicare loose coco unwashed...

edit: feed full strength no run off

see.....

 

[Buddler]

Well personally i use canna right out of the bag.I only flush the cheap bricks as the quality is not as good..Bcuzz brand same thing right out of the bag no rinse. So ya only flush cheap bricks for salt content IMO Not carved in stone ..B

 

[Guywithoutajeep]

Canna works right from the bag. BCuzz nearly killed my plants without a major washing, Canna did not. You can mess around with your coco all you want, but i just make a batch of nutes for my transplants, use that to wet the coco, transplant, and start feeding. Fuck all that washing and buffering crap. It's a big waste of time. Canna is $20 a bag. Thats cheap for my growing budget.

Canna + Blumats + Smartpot = Some of the best results you can get.