Hochstrom filters from Summit Research, leaking?

[whatthe215]

Let's share our experiences with these things.

I got 2 of em to test and like the idea a lot but the filter plate isn't perfectly flat and so it leaks at 2 locations around the edges of the filter paper, most notably with 2nd and 3rd stage filtration.

Has anyone else experienced this leakage?

Often 1 filter will finish 5x as quickly as the other despite having the exact same amount of ethanol and waxes, both going to the same vac jug with same vac level.

 

[BigJohnny]

I was looking into one of these and wanted to see if it would be cheaper to have one made here locally than to buy it from summit.

Do you have any pictures of the unit? how does the multiple stage filtration work? I thought it was just a single plate.....are there multiple plates meant to stack filter paper in between?

 

[hash head]

What's wrong with just using a buchner funnel?

 

[SkyHighLer]

I thought it clamped the edge of the paper, you're saying the machining is off? Maybe a large thin o-ring would fill in the gaps.

 

[Breakover]

Interesting. I was thinking of getting a hochstrom setup, too.

 

[killa12345]

Thanks just saved me about 2000 on one of these too....damn all the shit talking in that video...and that just the base model...you can add carbon and silca to that list and the price gets way higher.

 

[whatthe215]

Don't write these off just yet, Summit has new metal filter paper backing plates on the way to me. Hopefully it's just a small batch issue.

I was looking into one of these and wanted to see if it would be cheaper to have one made here locally than to buy it from summit.

Do you have any pictures of the unit? how does the multiple stage filtration work? I thought it was just a single plate.....are there multiple plates meant to stack filter paper in between?

I'll get photos if/when I have time this week.

There are 3 stages of filter papers, 20um, 8um, and 1um.

Base plate -> metal filter plate -> paper -> metal paper retention ring -> top spool. The retention ring holds down the paper at the edges.

What's wrong with just using a buchner funnel?

Scale. If I can get these to work properly then they should process quicker than buchners. Also the filter paper retention is awesome if it would work. And the jet cut metal disk offers significantly more vacuum area to suck on paper. And they sit on the counter so I can just have silicone tubing going to a large SS collection vessel on the floor with 4 or 6 or 8 Hochstroms leading to it.

I thought it clamped the edge of the paper, you're saying the machining is off? Maybe a large thin o-ring would fill in the gaps.

Yes, the machining was off on the metal filter paper backing plate. We will see if it's just a batch issue once replacements arrive.

The metal disk plate had a couple thin areas around the edge which caused leaking. Probably from uneven grinding/leveling. Could've just been a factory worker having a bad day.

Interesting. I was thinking of getting a hochstrom setup, too.

Keep thinking about it, I'll update here once the fix arrives. Hoping it's just a bad batch. The one that isn't as broken worked pretty frickin well.

Thanks just saved me about 2000 on one of these too....damn all the shit talking in that video...and that just the base model...you can add carbon and silca to that list and the price gets way higher.

Wait for me to post an update before forgetting about these. They are awesome if I just got a defective filter paper backing plate.

I got the silica and 3 part carbon as well so we will see how it compares to my current carbon filtration tech.

 

[hash head]

something like this with some side arm vacuum flasks... could be a lot cheaper and able to filter 100s of litres a day...

 

[hash head]

Or this one

 

[easystephen]

Do yourself a favor and just buy a tabletop buchner filter, way more surface area for the money!

https://www.amazon.com/H14627-1260-...d=1491416175&sr=8-2&keywords=tabletop+buchner

 

[whatthe215]

something like this with some side arm vacuum flasks... could be a lot cheaper and able to filter 100s of litres a day...

Or this one

I have a couple Chinese 2L filters + 5L flasks and a few 1L + 2Ls but haven't been totally happy with them, the down tube into the flask is too close to the vacuum port and so the mix gets partially sucked into the vac hose. And not enough room to extend the glass tube with silicone because the orifice doesn't leave enough room. If the glass tube was longer it would break easier inserting/removing from flask.

Also the glass filter disks catch waxes and I'm not sure hot ethanol with or without a sonic bath is capable of removing every bit and so I'm worried about long term buildup. Hot piranha isn't something I'd really like to be using in the lab.

Do yourself a favor and just buy a tabletop buchner filter, way more surface area for the money!

https://www.amazon.com/H14627-1260-...d=1491416175&sr=8-2&keywords=tabletop+buchner

I'll definitely give these a try if the new metal filter plates from Summit don't cut the cheese. I think some of these have filter paper retention rings to limit leaking around the edge of paper. Only one way to find out I suppose...

Also concerned about heat. I'm still not sure exactly where I want temps to be during winterization. I have 2 -80c freezers.


-----

Pics coming this afternoon. Also gonna have tests of waste waxes back in a few days to see how much meat we're leaving on the bone. Waste waxes are nearly completely white depending on how many times we wash with chilled ethanol.

 

[whatthe215]

 

[whatthe215]

Stage 3 paper waxes

 

[Thomas@LRL]

I have two as well and have not had any issue with leaking.

 

[Thomas@LRL]

I vastly prefer this over the Bel-Art tabletop funnels, they are stupid fast, durable, easy to clean and don't have the same issues with the filter plates bleeding around the edges. I added some Quarter turn ball valves and a stainless T to tie them together and I chew through 20L of filtration in the early morning and have it all evaporated by the end of the day. Dramatically improved throughput, which also seems to trap more material as it also isn't melting due to long residence time. I would make a few changes and I would also like the taller tube but I still love these damn things. I have also used ceramic and glass frit and they are way too slow.

 

[whatthe215]

I have two as well and have not had any issue with leaking.

I vastly prefer this over the Bel-Art tabletop funnels, they are stupid fast, durable, easy to clean and don't have the same issues with the filter plates bleeding around the edges. I added some Quarter turn ball valves and a stainless T to tie them together and I chew through 20L of filtration in the early morning and have it all evaporated by the end of the day. Dramatically improved throughput, which also seems to trap more material as it also isn't melting due to long residence time. I would make a few changes and I would also like the taller tube but I still love these damn things. I have also used ceramic and glass frit and they are way too slow.

Awesome, this is exactly what I was told by someone who has installed 100+ of them. The tall spool is definitely nice however I haven't tried putting more than 2000ml of 1st winterization material. I am running high pressure CO2 (3200psi+) so pulling a lot of waxes, most CO2 paste is in the 25-35% potency range.

So are you running 10liters of first winterization material per filter run? That seems like a lot to me but again, I'm dealing with 25% potency CO2 paste. What g:ml ethanol ratio? I'm doing 1:5 right now and washing 3 or 4 times with chilled ethanol.

Also curious if you're using the Pyrex wool for 1st/2nd stage? And if so how many inches of rope? I think 7" was slowing it down, using 4" right now and it blasted through 1200ml of 1st winterization material before I could finish this post so I just added another 1200ml @-80c.

And are you allowing the winterized mix to thaw at all before beginning filtration? Specific temp of chilled ethanol you're washing with?

 

[hash head]

Are vacuums used with these filters?

 

[whatthe215]

Are vacuums used with these filters?

Yes. Deeper vac for 1st stage, less for 2nd and 3rd.

I use a water recirculating pump and it's sufficient for at least 2 filters, maybe more I'll see soon. No cold trap required with water recirc pumps.

 

[whatthe215]

Waxes after 1st pull, prior to washing with chilled ethanol

20L vacuum jug and pump

 

[hash head]

Also the glass filter disks catch waxes and I'm not sure hot ethanol with or without a sonic bath is capable of removing every bit and so I'm worried about long term buildup. Hot piranha isn't something I'd really like to be using

some have holes instead of frit such as this one which seems like it could not be clogged by waxes and likely has faster performance than gritted versions.. as for waxes in the frit.. hydrogen peroxide and sulfuric acid can clean the waxes out.. not sure if that's what you mean by piranha but it shouldn't be too harmful if thoroughly cleaned before using again.