higher thc = higher potency?

[sourpuss]

Id say if u never seen bud that had so much resin heads it literally looks like 25 percent of the weight is pure resin heads, u just dont get the best weed. Its not usual to see that kind of quality but ive seen it being sold among friends. Canadian born and raised on some of the best herb. Healthy as a horse. They say mind body and soul. Herb heals the soul and relaxes the mind. Show me another drug that good for the human well being.

 

[Green Supreme]

"I did not understand the ps question."

I would just wonder if the trichome could be broken down to show what percentage of the head is THC, terps, waxes etc. Peace GS

 

[bombadil.360]

... What stops them from measuring just the hash, since their target is as high a number as possible? Which would explain the silly numbers, if indeed they even bother to test and don't just pull the number out of their posterior.
After all who is going to tell?

the real question is what is your initial point of reference to know what is and is not a ridiculous % of THC present in a given sample?

do you have some kind of method where nature itself informs you of what are the non-ridiculous % of THC cannabis plants should have?

these are of course rhetorical questions, as obviously you do not have any such point of reference.

the points of reference are the results that came after the advancement of the technology that enables us to find out the different % of the differing compounds making up the weight of the plant; and if those result show that it is possible to find samples that range from 1% to 30% THC, why is this not possible? again, what's the reference point?

peace.

 

[gonzo`]

how does one bring out more terpenes or ensure terpene levels reach their highest genetic potential?

 

[OGEvilgenius]

Selective breeding and healthy plants gonzo.

Question: Which terpenes have the most pronounced affect on the profile of the high? I guess this would be directed at Sam, since he would know best.

My understanding is Merycene (sp?) has strong effect.

I suspect Lemonene (sp again?) does as well.

I guess it's probably somewhat complicated as a small amount of one might have fairly significant effect in certain cocktails of cannabinoids and terpenes, but less in others.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

If your theory were true, dry sift would never test more than the % claimed by the breeder or lab that you disagree with. We know that isn't the case.

Also, there's no reasonable way to separate the trichromes exclusively from the plant matter unless you make hash (and then its still impure). And no lab would do that if they were trying to get a picture of a plant and not a block of hash, after all, trichromes aren't the only thing containing THC on the plant either.

I think it's really unlikely labs have collectively colluded to mislead us on this issue.

JuC - leaving aside for a moment any opinions I might have about the "testing" conducted by law enforcement authorities.

I would need to see the full test report, including lab conditions, for anyone who claimed that 50g of BUD contained 7.5g of pure THC (15%).

Do you have any links to German testing labs?

PS: Just to show you my reasoning: 50 grams of bud will give you 5 grams of hash, maybe 7 if it's really tip-top. That would mean the trichomes would have to be over 100%THC, to make up the numbers!!!
OTOH, if you measure substances being transported in the stem/plant matter, then I think it may be likely that many of them are THC precursors, as yet undecarboxylated so it would be cheating, especially if they decarboxylated during the testing process.

The way I see it, THC will probably max out at about 60% of trichome weight (unless you believe that the trich structure weighs nothing) and the trichs themselves will probably be about 10% in good bud, I'm allowing the outrageous possibility of 20% for argument's sake. Therefore, under the most idealized conditions, unlikely to be found in anything but the most superb bud, the THC by weight will be <12%, 6% more like, and that's for the good stuff.

20% as run-of-the-mill, the way it's bandied today sounds like a joke.
If anyone thinks my reasoning is wrong I'll gladly hear why.

 

[Gert Lush]

Do you believe that science today can measure the correct THC levels of herbal Cannabis?
Or do you belive it is impossible?

I thought it was fairly obvious that I beieve so. I don't think it's such a new thing, either. Surprised you have to ask. Sorry if you find my style abrasive, but I am trying to figure out something here, in the midst of a lot of BS. I have to ask difficult questions - sorry if that upsets anyone.

I understand why you may not trust someone that wants to have the highest THC % so they can sell the product easier. That does not mean that all Cannabis analysis is bogus.

Yes, that's the problem, finding the non-bogus one.

there is no precursor flowing through the plant, Cannabinoid bio-synthesis takes place in a few cells under the resin heads, mediated by CBG and Cannabinoid synthases that convert it into THC or other Cannabinoids, you really do need to read up on Cannabis chemistry and botany.

Great, I was just trying to allow for any other source of THC which could make up these numbers.
If, then, we accept that cannabinoids are only present in the resin heads (and a few cells under them), then surely the most acurate measurement would be the percentage available in the resin heads, no?

What's the point of faffing around with extreme trimming in order to register a few more percentage points?

I also note that if a bud sample contains 25% THC, and assume a generous 85%-15% ratio of plant matter to trichomes in the sample, then the trichs must have 166% THC, Hope the 'rithmetic isn't too difficult for anyone here.

If, OTOH, you can get 30 grams of resin heads from 100 grams of bud (please tell me what strain you are growing, and how you sieve it) then you have a chance of having 25% THC in your bud, IF the trichomes are made up of 83% THC. The cell walls, sugars, carriers, other cannabinoids and terpenes must all fit in the remining 17%!

If the above figures don't seem suspect to you, then I'm afraid it's not me who has a problem looking at things scientifically.

So - for the record - what is the maximum THC %age that could be available in the resin heads? Someone must have done an analysis on pure hash. I hope.

Because once you know what a reasonable amount is for hash, then it's easy to go back and see what a reasonable amount is for bud. So, do you believe it's scientifically possible to measure the amount of THC in hash?

 

[Gert Lush]

I think it's really unlikely labs have collectively colluded to mislead us on this issue.

I never said or implied that the labs "colluded" for any purpose.

What I am saying is that perhaps what is being tested is not what people think is being tested. And if anyone is "colluding" to make people think otherwise, it is certainly not the labs, but more the market and the occasional Prohibitionist.

Read my post above re the question of testing for hash. As for THC in "other" parts of the plant, SamS tells us that there isn't any.

 

[Gert Lush]

the real question is what is your initial point of reference to know what is and is not a ridiculous % of THC present in a given sample?

Your question is less rhetorical than you think.

As I state in post#47, my point of reference is what percentage of THC is reasonable to be expected in a sample of resin glands, i.e. hash. From that we can work backwards. If we work backwards and find that the number needs to be in excess of 100%, I think it's safe to assume that there must be shum mishtake.

Hope that makes it clearer for you.

 

[OGEvilgenius]

I never said or implied that the labs "colluded" for any purpose.

What I am saying is that perhaps what is being tested is not what people think is being tested. And if anyone is "colluding" to make people think otherwise, it is certainly not the labs, but more the market and the occasional Prohibitionist.

Read my post above re the question of testing for hash. As for THC in "other" parts of the plant, SamS tells us that there isn't any.

Trichromes produce the essential oils that seep into other parts of the plant.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Yes maybe it could be but it is normaly not done.
-SamS

"I did not understand the ps question."

I would just wonder if the trichome could be broken down to show what percentage of the head is THC, terps, waxes etc. Peace GS

 

[Green Supreme]

I kinda feel like once that info is available, along with video footage of trichomes growing, some serious research can begin. Not that there has been no serious research done yet. Peace GS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

First of all you are not getting all the THC when you make hash.
Second you are assuming the most accurate way to measure THC is the % in the resin heads. Why does no one do this, except you?
Third you assume a 85-15% ratio of bud to resin, but where did you get those numbers? Bud has more then 25% resin if it has 25% THC, wise up dude....
Have faith, believe me, you are just wrong about your assumptions, plain and simple.
-SamS

If, then, we accept that cannabinoids are only present in the resin heads (and a few cells under them), then surely the most acurate measurement would be the percentage available in the resin heads, no?

What's the point of faffing around with extreme trimming in order to register a few more percentage points?

I also note that if a bud sample contains 25% THC, and assume a generous 85%-15% ratio of plant matter to trichomes in the sample, then the trichs must have 166% THC, Hope the 'rithmetic isn't too difficult for anyone here.

If, OTOH, you can get 30 grams of resin heads from 100 grams of bud (please tell me what strain you are growing, and how you sieve it) then you have a chance of having 25% THC in your bud, IF the trichomes are made up of 83% THC. The cell walls, sugars, carriers, other cannabinoids and terpenes must all fit in the remining 17%!

If the above figures don't seem suspect to you, then I'm afraid it's not me who has a problem looking at things scientifically.

So - for the record - what is the maximum THC %age that could be available in the resin heads? Someone must have done an analysis on pure hash. I hope.

Because once you know what a reasonable amount is for hash, then it's easy to go back and see what a reasonable amount is for bud. So, do you believe it's scientifically possible to measure the amount of THC in hash?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

trichomes reading:

Here are a few articles by Malberg and Kim. Malberg was RCC's teacher at Indiana U.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/content/inside-trichome

http://naihc.org/MahlbergArticles.html look at #38, 37, 34, 32, 27, 26, 25, 13, 10

http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~raskin/kim.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12872998

 

[Green Supreme]

Thank you for your patience with us relative newbs. Thanks also for sharing. Peace GS

 

[yesum]

Gert I am with you, I can not wrap my head around buds containing 1/4 thc by weight.

I think if we allow for the buds being dried out to a degree that no one ever does that is smoking them, then the impossible seems a little more possible. There is little left after the water is totally removed from the buds.

The buds being trimmed to the max, using only buds from clones to max out thc results, these count too.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Gert I am with you, I can not wrap my head around buds containing 1/4 thc by weight.

I think if we allow for the buds being dried out to a degree that no one ever does that is smoking them, then the impossible seems a little more possible. There is little left after the water is totally removed from the buds.

The buds being trimmed to the max, using only buds from clones to max out thc results, these count too.

Most smoked cannabis is less then 20% moisture, if real fresh the stems may still have a lot of extra moisture. A fresh harvested plant is closer to 80% if I remember right. When you look at the buds you smoke do they look like they have 20% water? They do have it.
Same with THC, it may not look like 25%, but it is in the resin which has the highest density and weight of anything found in Cannabis besides moisture if you have not desiccated the herb.
Resin is also the last part to dry, meaning in fresh Cannabis it is not as dry as the stems or the herb, you can desiccate resin for several weeks and that does get it dry.
But anyway believe me you can extract 2.5 grams of THC from 10 grams of desiccated herb with at least 25% THC. Or actually a little less then 3 grams of 95% pure THC which is the 2.5 grams of pure THC.
-SamS

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Here is a good one:

Accumulation of Cannabinoids in Glandular Trichomes of Cannabis (Cannabaceae)
Paul G. Mahlberg
Eun Soo Kim
From JIH 9.1

-SamS

 

[NotaProfessor]

Labs report on a dry weight basis, which means they determine the %THC and the %moisture in the sample and back-calculate to the %THC at 0% moisture. That pumps up the numbers too.

Most smoked cannabis is less then 20% moisture

So a plant that has 20%THC at 20% moisture is 25%THC on a dry weight basis.

Doing a dry ice kief separation on trim I get roughly 25% of the weight out as kief. It's not all trichs but if I get that from trim I would expect an even bigger yield from buds. So there is a lot of resin in/on a plant that could be THC.

 

[Gert Lush]

you are assuming the most accurate way to measure THC is the % in the resin heads. Why does no one do this, except you?

But it's not just me is it? When testing initially started, most testers that I read about were saying the same thing. It makes it quite difficult for someone on the outside to make head or tail of it, as you can well understand. Add the unreliability and dishonesty factor associated with markets and you get a real zoo.

you assume a 85-15% ratio of bud to resin, but where did you get those numbers?

From the results I get when I sieve bud. Not just me, either, anyone in a wider circle of 30 or so growers I know. Never got more than 20%, and that's with tip-top bud, and very intense sieving, to the point of getting plant material too. Any method, carding, tumblers, bubblebags, ice, brute-force, anything! Like I said, if you get better, let me know the strain and separation technique.

Bud has more then 25% resin if it has 25% THC, wise up dude....

No, you wise up!
I was the one who stated that the figures you give lead to ridiculous conclusions, and that over 25% resin is one of them. In fact, you need 30%-35% resin to make your figures work. So don't try to twist it as if I'm the one with the fanciful numbers (nice try, though).
IF you can back your numbers up, do so, with concrete examples. I.e. - "So much of the bud was resin by weight, and so much of the resin was THC, giving a total, when multiplied of so much - Ta-da!"

Have faith, believe me, you are just wrong about your assumptions, plain and simple.

I'll keep an open mind, Sam, just simply 'cause you seem so insistent. You are also the first person (in the industry) in several years, that has actually bothered to answer my questions, and I appreciate that.
However, I really will need to see some figures that make sense, before I can (remotely) accept such claims.

And don't forget that even if, by some weird chance, you have found a sample that contains such %ages, it still doesn't mean that every dumbass seed-seller that claims such numbers has done so too. I doubt if half of them have even bothered testing anything before they put that magic number 25 on the pack. I mean, have you read some of the claims and bumf on some seed sellers sites? Just embarrasingly clueless (even some of the good ones). Most are obviously written when they were just out-of-it-stoned and obviously written with a I-don't-give-a-shit mentality. Hell, who's checking, eh? Why should they be any different when it comes to their "testing" (yeah, right).

This is one of the best things about legalization, we can get rid of this bullshit and have some genuine understanding. I don't really care what the actual THC %age numbers are, provided they are transparently acquired. At the moment this doesn't seem to be the case.

And labels on seed packs claiming anything should be the result of an independent audited test grow, and an averaged out measurement over all individuals, not just some 1 in 1000 freak clone.

---

PS. Thanks for the pdf