Hermie after Hermie after Hermie

[psychopro]

When I see male stress flowers (not hermaphrodites, but male stress flowers!!), 9 x's out of 10, it's soil or medium content; nutes, nutes, or .... nutes. And imbalance, too much of 'x' instead of 'y,' etc., is key. At minor levels, it'll cause changes in production and general health. At more severe imbalances it'll show as all sorts of things, to include male stress flowers (unless dealing with unstable genetics, for which it occurs much easier).

There've even been some limited times when I turned a fuck-up into a test of the genetics I was running. If they remained without male stress pods, despite a relatively stout or out-of-whack medium, then they were solid girls.

Look to see if you're inadvertently doubling up on something that's harmful in higher levels. Check ratios of amendments.

If all of that's good, then look for new moms.

That'd be my course of action, but I'm not you.

Good luck.

No bullshit. And you can cause stress flowers in even relatively stable plants with nute imbalance. Guaranteed.

Plants looked all perfectly fine this time, i checked my nute solution exact for ec/ph and there are also no signs of nute burn or defiency.

But i found out that the light of the tent next to my flowering tent goes on 5 minutes earlyer and shines a bit into my flowering plants throw the passive intake. So i will next fix this.

Genetic was from Ripper Seeds Zombie Kush and Th Seeds Strawberry Glue.

 

[moose eater]

I've had genetics, especially femmed (in my case, seeds pollinated over and over via stress flowers, farmed by others, as I DON'T use that technique <repetitious production of seeds, grown, then harvested over and over> as it clearly leads to imbalanced genetics) that were flat out unstable; eventually couldn't be grown without fuck-ups..

Age of nutes can be a factor. Some turn acidic over a long time, but sounds like you checked that out.

5" of early light contamination is not apt to be a factor if you're already on 12:12. 5" here or there shouldn't matter. Nor should very subtle lighting such as would be equivalent to an average moon, small green LED illuminated switch, etc.

Ratio of N-P-K and micros can be culprits (excess micros I've seen cause havoc).

Again, good luck.

 

[Medfinder]

got a jack the ripper x og kush and i cloned it without full flower only to found out no matter what i did it hermed in the 4 week of flower.

any other herms were either stress ph light leaks or going past ripe age.

 

[psychopro]

I've had genetics, especially femmed (in my case, seeds pollinated over and over via stress flowers, farmed by others, as I DON'T use that technique <repetitious production of seeds, grown, then harvested over and over> as it clearly leads to imbalanced genetics) that were flat out unstable; eventually couldn't be grown without fuck-ups..

Age of nutes can be a factor. Some turn acidic over a long time, but sounds like you checked that out.

5" of early light contamination is not apt to be a factor if you're already on 12:12. 5" here or there shouldn't matter. Nor should very subtle lighting such as would be equivalent to an average moon, small green LED illuminated switch, etc.

Ratio of N-P-K and micros can be culprits (excess micros I've seen cause havoc).

Again, good luck.

What i find strange is that my run off ph which i checked today is 7.0-7.1.
I ph'ed my water and water+nutrients everytime to 6.0-6.2 and checked it.

 

[moose eater]

Accumulated salts in the soil mix, or the pots, or??

There's something in there that's reacting slowly, is my guess.

As I posted in another thread (and more or less got ignored), I use an alcohol based ph reagent on a tray. While it's not digital, it's relatively quick, and accurate, so I've used the same system/technique for ph testing soil samples for over 20 years now, seldom deviating into other methods, though I have more than a few times.

I recently came up with a soilless, mostly organic mix, and it was slow to show some apparent alkaline balancing to it., initially starting at a 5.3-5.4. So I reluctantly added another 9 TBSP of dolomite to the ~16.5 gallon mix, and boosted it with 2 TBSP of Lilly Miller Super Sweet; an item I tend to use very sparingly, if I use it at all.

Magic!! The next morning the mix tested at 6.3-6.4!! PERFECTION!!!. .... right?

Then I tested it the next morning, and it was about 6.7. The next morning it was 6.8-6.9. It's held there since.

The mystery to me is that my reagent is alcohol based, and usually gets in there, and gets past any slow-to-show/slow release amendments, and gets a pretty accurate ph reading right off. Not this time.

Maybe the rice hulls? Maybe the zeolite? Maybe a synergistic relationship between 2 or more items? Who knows at this point?

You may have something similar happening in your mix, or you may have salts built up from who-knows-what?

Just ideas at this point.

I should have a soil analysis here today or tomorrow on mine. Next will be a serious analysis on my well water, untreated.

Some where in all of this is a plausible and scientific explanation. I'm certain of it. For your situation, and for mine.

 

[MedResearcher]

The black dots are surely thrip poop, can see the thrip damage on the leaf near the poop.


Once your tent is empty of plants. Turn on all the lights you can outside of the tent, including the second tent/room you mentioned. Then climb inside the tent, and zip yourself shut. Wait a good 5+ minutes, so your eyes completely adjust to the dark, and look for any light. It should be really really dark, like trip and fall cant see my hand dark. Find the light leaks, and troubleshoot them. Sometimes a run of intake/exhaust duct can be tricky to black out, but it can be done with various techniques and ingenuity.


Keep at it, if you cant get the hang of the soil could always change mediums as well. Pure coco with hydro nutes, was probably the easiest method I have ever used, more forgiving than traditional hydro and a little more scientific than organic soil. Organic soil is fantastic and once you get the hang is great, but there are more unknowns at play, eventually you learn the unknowns but they aren't always as simple as PH/EC feed feed feed like in hydro mediums.

Gl, and hope to see another thread with huge seedless nugs in your future!

Mr^^

 

[Switcher56]

Ok thanks for the help.
So bottom line is i should only feed once a week.
I thought when using organic nutes ph is not too important because my soil will buffer it.
I will post my ph/ec of my tap water and will use ph down in the future.

... I was told the same line of shit by the local hydro shop in town. Did I expect anything different from a "hydro" shop? No! I was told to simply use the "program" on the General Organic's "Go Box" using RO water and I would be "golden". Not!



For practice... since tomatoes are said to have similar growth and trait/needs characteristics as cannabis, it is said to be a great teacher and it was. This trial did not end in catastrophe but it was a great teacher.


For starters, the program is too hot! Thanks to the fine folks here, I was able to re-calibrate what I was doing and my babies are doing fine so far in their 2nd week of veg. I don't count the 2 weeks as a seedling) or when they get their 3rd set of full leaves.


Preparing a feeding solution (IAW the program) would knock the ph down turning the feeding H2O slightly acidic (5.4 to 5.8 (depending on the nutes)). So I dial in my H2O to 6.5 and nutes to 6.2. I was told here to feed @ 1/2 the recommended strength and that seems to have helped to date.


Another thing to consider is that peat moss is generally known as acidic, so if anything you want sweeter H2O.


My watering and feed schedule is water/feed, dry, dry, water/feed From the Bonsai World, always feed a damp soil to avoid "fert burn" them extremely fine roots are VERY susceptible to this type of damage. Contrary to popular belief (some) it is "these roots" that feed the plants/trees.


The other recommendation they made is because I was growing in "organic soil" using an "organic feed regimen" no need to flush. That has since been debunked. Flush for a week - 10 days regardless.

 

[Switcher56]

The thing about feeding is that less is more.

If you use less nutrients your plants only grow a little slower.

If you use too much the plants suffer and the leaves fry.

As long as you learn you'll do better next time and that's what counts.

^^what he said^^

 

[Switcher56]

But i don't get why the rest of the leaves don't show any type of nute burn or defiency. Only the lower stems who get no light look bad.. also they don't get yellow the just get all grey and die.

... that's because they are the 1st affected! Thank God for that. It permits us to remedy possible bad practices and save the plant

 

[Switcher56]

I have a PH/EC pen i just thought it is not important with organic nutes because the soil will do the job and adjust for me. But i got proven wrong and i wish i knew that before ruining my crop for the third time now.

I am on my 1st grow, so time will tell. I practice on tomatoes (good way to practice as $1.99 for 50 or so seeds is a better test subject


IMMHO personally I would have stepped back and found out why things didn't go according to Hoyle, and re-dial my technique/practices, before attempting further grows until I knew what I may be doing wrong.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Once your tent is empty of plants. Turn on all the lights you can outside of the tent, including the second tent/room you mentioned. Then climb inside the tent, and zip yourself shut. Wait a good 5+ minutes, so your eyes completely adjust to the dark, and look for any light. It should be really really dark, like trip and fall cant see my hand dark. Find the light leaks, and troubleshoot them. Sometimes a run of intake/exhaust duct can be tricky to black out, but it can be done with various techniques and ingenuity.

This right here will cure 90% of your hermi problems. Excellent information. Thanks for posting it.

When roots encounter too high of pH in soil they begin to die and rot. As almost every hydro grower is well aware, rotting roots drop pH. When the pH reaches a healthy zone, the roots quit rotting and the pH stabilizes. So, yeaaaaaah... soil plants kinda do a really messed up self-pH routine. lol Unfortunately, I have no idea what happens when the pH is already too low.

Save​

 

[Switcher56]

Checked my tap water.
PH -> 7.8
EC -> 443
Water temp i use is 21-22 degree

EC from what I have read, EC is more for hydro grows than organic grows. My recommendation is to dial in your ph 1st and then your feeding regimen then, worry about fine tuning (EC). Part of troubleshooting IMO is to play with single variables at a time and wait for results. Trying several things at ounce may not lead you to a solution as you don't know what caused what.

 

[Switcher56]

Yes they do.
Thou intersextrait is genetic, it is also shows up because of stress And over feeding and seriously bad pH level causes stress.
= it's a survival mechanism to make seeds if the plant/polulation feels it is in danger of being wiped out.

I have read many times it's adviced to go easy with nute strenght (esp. Nitrogen) because plants can start growing nanners because of this. ..especialy with "landrace genetics", which usually don't need as much feeding as modern inbred polyhybrids.

Ofcourse some plants are more sensitive than others.
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For psychopro, as you have now learned the hard way, it's not wise to assume things, especialy cause we have the internet.Easy to find good information and advise. But it's also not wise to believe everything fellow growers post on forums cause some of us can also take assumptions as fact.

Grow guides, videos and books are easy to find around the internet for free, so it's better to read/check on the basics than to assume things are this-and-that.

Don't feel too bad, you only lost some time and money. I have been there too. Messed up quite a few grows. You'll get there. Just try to get the basics in check and you should be harvesting some weed next time.

In short. Read and ask things around the forums.Don't assume you know. There are many old timers and experienced growers here on IC Mag who are happy to help. But you're better of asking someone else than me

... and that is wide spread, regardless of the subject unfortunately OTOH if an individual is serious wrt growing, nothing replaces good research and dialogue

 

[Switcher56]

Indeed, tapwater is never a good idea, with all the dissolved shit it has ─ rainwater is near-perfect, with pH below 7.0, but run-off from a roof can often fuck things up by introducing high pH contaminants, and lead flashing is dissolved somewhat by rainwater ─ I sure don't want lead ions around my girls roots...

I distill my tapwater, BTW!

... being an ex Marine Engineer, you are better off using RO water than distilled. Distilled water is void of all nutrients, while minerals remain behind using reverse osmosis

 

[Switcher56]

Guys a different question ,is it true that a plants dark period will not get interupted when using a green led light. Because that could be the second mistake i made...

That would be correct, they can't see green! That being said, set up your schedule and your girls schedule to do maintenance during the light cycle, for a dble measure of security.

 

[Switcher56]

i had a friend that the power strip light was causing him problems, he put a piece of tape over the on off button that lit up a lil red light and his grows are perfect, heard of where the co2 emitter had a lil light that did the same thing...immediately i thought of light leak, but you said you did a light leak test and it was ok...again good luck finding out the culprit..DJXX

Thanks

 

[Switcher56]

Folks commonly use the term 'hermaphrodite' with what are actually male stress flowers on a female plant.

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.

Cannabis (and other plants) has a built-in 'perpetuate-the-species-at-all-costs' mechanism. When sufficiently stressed, female plants will often produce male stress flowers, and cause (female) seeds to be produced.

A Hermaphrodite can have (and often does) a complete branch of male flowers, and a branch of female flowers.

The difference is often a plant with screwed up genetics, versus a plant saying, "Oh well.. Maybe next year, I guess I'd better find a way to reproduce to give it a try later."

Less stable genetics will produce male stress pods much easier, but you can take very stable genetics/female plants, and if you stress that plant enough, cause it to produce male stress flowers.

Seeds from these will nearly always, if not always be female. But if you routinely use this method for production of seeds, using the seeds from each crop, then the seeds from the next, and so forth, over relatively short time, you'll end up with accelerated genetic drift. And eventually, most likely have weed that's unstable with minimal stress, presence of TRUE hermaphrodites, and produce notably less quality than you began with.

That said, those telling you your problem is with the soil, heat, water, nutes, etc. (some or all of the above) are giving you straight talk, unless you started with bad genetics to begin with, which is unlikely if using a good strain and source.

When I screw up, I can get my most stable plants to produce male stress flowers.

... would a simple removal of that male branch (or any other for that matter) suffice to prevent pollination, if you can reverse the stress, or is it too late by that time e.g the plant is in self-preservation mode?

 

[Switcher56]

Yeah i already did. Could be almost everything who knows.

You may want to invest in Jorges "Cannabis Encyclopedia" great book with a great troubleshooting section. What I like about this book, it covers all aspects of growing. There are other great books out there, but this one is written in layman's terms , with lots and lots of pictures.

 

[Switcher56]

This ^ and what everyone else is saying. If I’ve learned anything over the years, it’s never 1 thing causing the problem, it’s a series of issues that are resulting in very stressed plants (which YES absolutely will result in a hermie under right conditions).

Dark period means dark, no green light.. cover all surge protector & device indicator lights. Check the zippers & seams of tent.

Your fan leaves are showing lock out, fix your ph & feed half strength nutes everyother (or less until your getting ahold of things).

Read lots of threads & it’ll start to click

Excellent response

 

[beta]

Checked my tap water.
PH -> 7.8
EC -> 443
Water temp i use is 21-22 degree

Your EC is not 443. An EC of 2.0 is high, 443 is impossible.