Hermaphrodite

[guest123]

if a plant reverses under extreme conditions ,, does that make it a pure female ..????
would a pure female not show intersexed traits no matter the stress , unless it is chemically induced ????

 

[guest123]

tiedye ,, what makes u think that intersexed plants from thailand do that as a survival technique , from what i can see sam saying chances are the stock u grew prolly came from a crop that contained intersexed plants ...
which came first ???
as i mentioned ,, ive seen many females stand alone , no other plants present , and no male flowers were produced on them ... they did not seem to have the urge to make another generation of seed unless there was a lad there to pollenate with ...
i have a few tropical sativas growing in the jungle now , the daylight hours are very low , shortest days in fact .. we have received very cold weather , even frosts .. there are no males present .. and i dont expect to see hermies ... that s the sort of stock i would prefer to use to breed with ..
maybe ill have to grow a few thousand to find the right ones , but its well worthwhile ..
lets face it ,, would we be happy if oranges and apples were infested with seeds to the point of being inedible ??? isnt it something we would want to breed out??

 

[Tom Hill]

"""I dont expect to see hermies ... that s the sort of stock i would prefer to use to breed with ..
maybe ill have to grow a few thousand to find the right ones , but its well worthwhile ..
lets face it ,, would we be happy if oranges and apples were infested with seeds to the point of being inedible ??? isnt it something we would want to breed out??"""

I definitely agree with this Wally, 99.9% & I think most other folks here do as well. But to say that they must be avoided at all cost & without exception always & forever & no questions asked ("or your part of the problem"), well, thats a bit extreme for me to accept for now- all of the cards are not on the table yet. I must have missed it, what, are we all under attack from the killer hermies?

I would much rather see this type of passion directed towards the quality of smoke department when breeders make their selections. If there's something else to add to the list of traits mandatory to breed for on every turn then I suggest it heads to the back of the line.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

if a plant reverses under extreme conditions ,, does that make it a pure female ..????
would a pure female not show intersexed traits no matter the stress , unless it is chemically induced ????

Chemically induced means nothing... Stresses are stresses, chemically induced or otherwise. If not, show me what is the difference in a plant producing a hormone from light stress or from too much ionic silver in the local soil...
Yes a plant can be chromosomally 100% female and be hormonally reversed due to stresses.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

I definitely agree with this Wally, 99.9% & I think most other folks here do as well. But to say that they must be avoided at all cost & without exception always & forever & no questions asked ("or your part of the problem"), well, thats a bit extreme for me to accept for now- all of the cards are not on the table yet. I must have missed it, what, are we all under attack from the killer hermies?

I would much rather see this type of passion directed towards the quality of smoke department when breeders make their selections. If there's something else to add to the list of traits mandatory to breed for on every turn then I suggest it heads to the back of the line.

No doubt and well said... I also agree 99.9%, and think people who get militant about the other .01% are reactive to say the least... What I'm talking about is a very far cry from Wally's nightmare accidental seedcrop.

LMAO killer hermie attack...

Send me some hermie proof seeds wally, I'll gladly test their stress resistance like I said... If any of the ladies make the cut potency wise, I'll stress them and do a documentary... and like I said before retract my position and shut up if no bananas appear.

 

[Dalaihempy]

Tiedye

In reference to the discussion on page 6...
Something that I realized and learned in the late 70's was that thai does have a tendecy to hermie, and this seems to be due to survival instinct.


If a thia line is going to hermi it will wen the plants sex NO plant that sexet as a female ever hermied that i ever grew ever.

There were thia lines that had no hermies show also.

In all the sativa lines i ever grew i have never seen a female plant that sexet as a female ever go hermie threw flowering ever.

The only lines of plants to ever go threw flowering and show hermie traits have been some indicas and some dutch lines.

 

[guest123]

hahaha attack of the killer hermies ,, love your sense of humour tom ....

 

[guest123]

Chemically induced means nothing... Stresses are stresses, chemically induced or otherwise. If not, show me what is the difference in a plant producing a hormone from light stress or from too much ionic silver in the local soil...
Yes a plant can be chromosomally 100% female and be hormonally reversed due to stresses.

id have to disagree ,, like i mentioned i test plants for stress ,, i have several sativas in the feild now , they have been stressed every way i can within the perameteres available ..
water stress ,,t oo much , too little ,, they have low light hour days which will often cause enough stress , they have had cold nights , even frosts , and as i said , im not expecting any hermies from them ,, ill check first thing i do when i get home and show u some pix ...
i planted 2 varieties of local sativa , one got a few hermies , its gone ..
lets see how the other goes ,,, if it works well , and im sure it s gonna ,,
ill send some to u to do what u like and see if u can make them change sex without using any chemicals ....... that maybe will make us all happy , well u and me anyhow ,, lol ...

 

[circadian clock]

what is the goal of breeders selling seeds, for the purchaser to have females. but if thats all were doing aren't we causing this hermie problem anyway? the females want to reproduce but when we take away what would be normal pollination it now has to pollinate itself in order to accomplish this. thus creating this hermie trait. shouldn't we shift the focus from bud to pollen.

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Sounds like a winner, wally... I'll be looking forward to the experiment...

As I was sitting downstairs, smoking and further pondering our disagreement here...
It occurred to me that we are sort of arguing apples against oranges, and perhaps if I explained better it might help...

When I am talking about extreme stresses, I'm not talking about anything which would occur outdoors. If a plant grown outdoors shows a reversal, it is 100% not to be bred with, I agree...

The stresses I speak of as extreme would not be occurring in nature. I'm talking about the indoor grow with a light leak for 5 hours of the night cycle every night, or the grow where temperatures are consistantly 15 degrees higher than they should be with little airflow. A plant should never reverse in natural conditions, and likewise should never reverse in a moderately well run grow, or it is definitely a cull. However, just because one could screw up an indoor grow so badly as to make a plant show a late flower reversal, doesn't Automatically make the plant worthless to breed.

I consider anything that happens outdoors to be normal stresses, not extreme stresses... extreme stress is an indoor thing....

 

[tiedye420]

Wally
It is just what I was taught when I was about 13...
32 years ago...About the taiwanese peoples yanking all the males..
As to the females producing pollen being a survival trait, it's been MHO since the 70's, and no body has come across with any new information to lead me to believe otherwise....It was actually common knowledge among certain circles...
Lotta growers in cali back in them days.. Still is... It's the sunshine, or at least it is for me....
I try to avoid thais, unless like from my old heri stock....
I have a super silver haze cut for 1 year or so, which i have had no problems with.
And i'm trying out visions chocolate thai from seed this year..
The only beauty of a landrace thai hermaphrodite, Is that they flower so late: everything else in the garden is already harvested long before the thais herm...

Grat3fulh3ad
I dig what your saying, and sometimes my grow is extreme stress...
It seems when i Have something important in there is when things go wrong the most, Photoperiod changes, power outtages, fans going out, ect.
And this leads me to the conclusion, you could stress plants out indoors on purpose to weed out the hermaphrodites, and put out solid stress tested females in the spring...
I'll let ya know how it goes in the fall, L.O.L.
tie

 

[Dalaihempy]

hiya wally is it possible the sat line that did show hermi traits after it was sexet as a fem and in flower had a little indica intruducet into its line some were down the track becouse i have never seen a pure sat show nannas once sexet as a fem and in flower.

Tiedye if your not finding true fems in the thia seed throw them if you have thia seeds sexing as females and in flower go herm they have indica in them and if they came from cannada ods are a large % indica at that visionthia is far from a pure thia line.

 

[Guest]

Myself I think sativas are more prone to hermi not less. My panama red has a tendency to hermi and it's pure sativa. I'm on the other side of the fence, I've never seen a pure indica throw bananas. It seems most of the strains that hermi that we are talking about (Thais, Mexis, African) are sativas.

 

[Dalaihempy]

hiya Rudedude well i live in a part of the world we we can grow thias out doors and its hard to prove to you want im saying but all im posting are from hands on growing experence and im stateing it if people belive it fine if not fine to but no sativa line pure sativa never ever hermied once it showed its sex.

The only time hermies would show up was at sexing then only then would sativas hermie.

To say thia genetics are all hermie is rong also as i sed i have grow thia lines that never showed hermies only male and female most did show 3 sexs tho.

 

[Tom Hill]

Well, as usual, I'm not quite sure what we're talking about here.

If we are talking about a Thai population in Thailand & the farmer diligently culls intersexed plants from being a part of his breeding program then- right on- as long as quality of smoke was his primary focus, good on him for his responsible stewardship of the line.

Or- Now you want to take that same line & bring it indoors to an artificial environment & go who knows how much further in subjecting it to artificially induced stress? Then, deem only those that don't flip as the only ones worth breeding to? If thats the case then I have problems with it. This would only serve to narrow the gene pool for what seems to me rather selfish reasons. I know that all breeding of plants by man is for somewhat selfish reasons but I do hope you get my point> Why the hell should cannabis be made to serve man in an artificial type of growing environment & under artificially induced types of stress? Good Night Nurse, how much diversity will that cost us? I'll venture a guess- More than our grandsons will hope we would have paid.

Best Regards,
Tom

 

[exactlywatt]

Why the hell should cannabis be made to serve man in an artificial type of growing under artificially induced types of stress? Good Night Nurse, how much diversity will that cost us? I'll venture a guess- More than our grandsons will hope we would have paid.

Best Regards,
Tom

When I first wanted to quote this post (not that I still don't), the last sentance ended with a guess that indoor growing for many,
won't be possible in the future.

Unfortunetly I'm inclined to agree with Tom on this one...

Don't mean to seem down (it's raining alot here yall)

 

[Grat3fulh3ad]

Exactly, Tom... exactly... my whole point from the beginning...

 

[Tom Hill]

I think you miss understood me there EW, my mistake.

I think indoor growing of cannabis will be an archaic thing of the past one day, not because it won't be possible, but because it really is a ridiculous way to grow anything in my opinion. Folks are just forced to do it now. I believe it's a temporary thing.

I may be far from correct on that one though, maybe more so than usual & hence felt the need to edit. As you may have noticed, I do quite a bit of that around here, & often for clarity grammar etc, but probably not enough

 

[Guest]

Thats a very interesting thought.

 

[FOE20]

I cant see a HIghland Ind dom grown in a swamp tho...Theres 1 simple reason for indoor..
Some folks believe things that shouldn't change is the natural way and what should be the only way..We evolve..plants evolve..bugs, birds and animals all evolve..
I think the whole Outdoor Indoor thing is a grower issue..Some folks can grow and really put all their passion and being into it but some are just like a Cook to the Chef..They are only after what they need, want and know which usually isn't much..The only way to grow superb Kine is to be one with the plants..But plants and everything change every day in some way..Its life and its also Botany, Relativity and Physics..
I'd rather keep a open mind and think that anything was possible rather then close doors I might never know could hold..And the way Man or the Human race is screwing up the enviroment that whole Outdoor thing may be even harder later than we think..What is it..2 more deg and we loose the reef eco-syst..I better enjoy the day and my herb or i'll end up old, crochity and pissed off..And thats no fun..
Hermaphi's...Hmmm thats like getting a woman whos a drunk prego..you never know what your gana get cause shes already screwed up her envio..lol
FOE20