Help!!!!!!!

[GeorgeWBush]

Hey Gaius sorry guess I missed this post...

hows it going? might help to get a pic of them with the led lights off once. did you try adding a dome? did the leaves get crispy from getting wet with the lights on? or from the climate?

I'll get some pics without the led today. The leaves didn't get crispy from lights on while wet, I am thinking it could be climate. Temps and humidity were really low for a while. Currently temps are 70 - 75 and I found an old humidifier in my folks closet it's cheap but it has brought humidity to 35%. I'll be picking up a good one today.

personally im no fan of starting seeds or clones in coco. prefer small rw cubes to pop seeds or root clones. they seem to get me higher success rates.

do you have anything like rhizotonic? something to boost the roots and strengthen shocked or weak plants? that stuff can help in situations like this when given with very low ec. let the cups get a bit light in between watering. i noticed stem rot can happen fast with seedlings in coco if the surface of the coco is always wet.

gl man

I do have H&G Roots Excellurator haven't used it yet I guess I should. I'll get that going and get some current pics of the setup later today.

 

[Chomp]

These are 8 day old C99 seedlings in straight coco that have been watered every other day since the day they popped. I never let the coco dry out not even the top, not even a little. That's what the benefit of growing in coco is. It holds enough oxygen in the root zone that you can feed the plants every time you water like in a hydro setup. I feed them 1/2 strength lucas formula for veg with GH flora micro/bloom and 1 tps per gal cal/mag.

I've never used coco specific nutes so I can't give an opinion on them...but I've had nothing but excellent grows in coco doing exactly what I've told you.

If you keep letting the coco dry up then you're going to continue to have problems. If you don't let them dry out your humidity levels will increase also.

Hope this helps...
Chomp

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Guys!
you could keep the coco saturated & add 10 buckets of water to your cab & your RH would barely budge. only a few ways to fix RH, humidify/dome, foliar would help, keeping medium saturated aint gonna do nish to raise RH. Its a problem that needs addressing asap as has been pointed out by the Cocoxperts. If you have low RH plants cant assimilate/transpire/breath properly. Personally i do anything to raise RH(they are seedlings-no?), even a £$2 piece of plastic sheet if i had to. Plants cant operate optimally in bad conditions/environment, which was my point. Theres only a couple of ways you can raise RH, knowing this, id be looking for a piece of plastic, 35% your problems aint gonna go away as fast, but you might be lucky as they grow, just think greenhouse humidity & how a greenhouse always has nice high RH! think about it?! Hope ya gert there bro!¬) more than 35%, its not enough imo!

once plants are bigger or big enough the lower RH wont be as much of a problem, foliage mass will help make up for it some, but babies are gonna struggle, even at 35%rh, its just not enoug imo, id be worried at mid-end bloom with such low RH depending! seedling stage, you got issues, get em in a dome, make one! & your problems are over imo!

 

[Chomp]

Hey Scrogerman was "Cocoxperts" supposed to be a dig dude? I've been growing in coco since OG bro...I don't post BS...From his pics it looked like he was growing in a rubbermaid, that's why I suggested it would raise RH...which it absolutely would. Even if it's a small cab it would raise the RH...it does in mine.

35% RH is completely fine you don't need a dome.

If high temps are not a problem you can consider getting rid of any fan blowing on the plants also...I don't use one with my veg plants at all...

I post from experience and I'm just trying to help the OP....you need to keep coco hydrated with nutrient solution regardless; if you don't you will continue to have problems.

Chomp

 

[Scrogerman]

Hey Scrogerman was "Cocoxperts" supposed to be a dig dude? I've been growing in coco since OG bro...I don't post BS...From his pics it looked like he was growing in a rubbermaid, that's why I suggested it would raise RH...which it absolutely would. Even if it's a small cab it would raise the RH...it does in mine.

35% RH is completely fine you don't need a dome.

I post from experience and I'm just trying to help the OP....you need to keep coco hydrated with nutrient solution regardless; if you don't you will continue to have problems.

Chomp

#Chomp, no way man, if i was gonna address you i would of said so, trust me bro, im just pointing out the babys are getting strangled with low RH bro, thats it! no dig at you at all! i would of said so!
(Cocoxperts i was refering to are Gauis & Bone bro!)

the ops problems aint from watering coco imo, he has much bigger issues addressing the RH!
I also post from over 2 decades of messing experience if you wanna go there!

20-35% RH for seedlings, can you se this, theres no foliage mass to compensate, yes? no?
explain to me the implications of trying to rear seedlings in this arrid enviroment man? your gonna get issues all day!

RH/environment should be considered before most other things, including how moist your medium is, RH dictates uptake/trans of water etc.

 

[Chomp]

No harm no foul dude...

Coco is a completely different animal from any other grow medium though and he needs to keep it hydrated with nutrient solution...that's just a fact.

Chomp

 

[Scrogerman]

No harm no foul dude...

Coco is a completely different animal from any other grow medium though and he needs to keep it hydrated with nutrient solution...that's just a fact.

Chomp

yeah of course, i aint saying that, im just trying my best to make the OP see what possible issues are causing his problems here-yeah, RH being the No1 issue imo!
trying to rear baby seedlings in 20-35% RH & what? is that cool, no i dont think so, will it cause problems, yes! has the OP got issues, yes! & we wonder why!?? Environment dictates eveything & its wrong!? I honestly believe the op's issues lie in the environment, & he knows this now, like he already has said bro!
asphixiation springs to mind! 35% is better/alot better but it aint enough & is far from optimal!

Cheers! & Peace!

 

[Chomp]

See that's what I'm saying...the RH is not the #1 problem 35% is fine which is where it is now...

the #1 problem is that he's letting the coco dry out which causes large swings in pH and uneven salt buildups and that's why his plants look crispy....letting coco dry out is a huge no no and even if his humidity was at 70% his plants would still look crispy.

Chomp

 

[Scrogerman]

OK rear seedlings in 35% RH lol!, i aint disputing medium moisture issues, its been 20% RH up untill today, must of been a water issue ah! ok, ill keep my nose out! Best of luck to ya!

That aint the right shit to teach anyone here bro imo! later!

ScroG!

 

[Chomp]

OK rear seedlings in 35% RH lol!, i aint disputing medium moisture issues, its been 20% RH up untill today, must of been a water issue ah! ok, ill keep my nose out! Best of luck to ya!

That aint the right shit to teach anyone here bro imo! later!

ScroG!

I'm teaching what's worked for me on many many occasions in the past....20% to 35% RH is fine and is what I deal with during the winter all the time without any problems

If you don't let coco dry out and keep it hydrated with a nutrient solution there would be no problem, again I speak from personal experience otherwise I wouldn't bother posting...

Don't try to make me look bad because you don't understand the basics of growing in coco....

Chomp

 

[Chomp]

Just for shits and giggles I threw the thermometer/hygrometer in the veg cab....

Chomp

 

[GeorgeWBush]

Scrogerman and Chomp- thanks for all your help even though you disagree on rh you both agree on keeping the medium wet.

It's funny though because when the problems began the coco was consistently wet as I always though it's supposed to be. Then a bunch of people came on and said I was over watering (maybe they were soil growers and not coco?). My first reaction was exactly what you guys say, that there is a good water/air ratio so you really can't over-water. But everyone basically was saying that's exactly what I was doing so I let them dry out and the problem persisted.

So I think it's safe to say the issue is not with the coco moisture, because it happened originally when the medium was wet, and persisted with new seedlings when it was fairly dry. Now I have flushed everything and the coco is wet again, with different nutrients.

My original thought was that it is either contaminated nutrients, RH, temps, or lack of fresh air. I've changed all of those factors now, except incoming air, which is not very possible in this location. I do manage to get the door open a few times a day for a half hour or so. Well, hopefully this will fix it. I'll take some more pics of the current setup with the changes I've made and post it up asap. Thanks everyone for your help it's so nice to have a forum like this with experienced educated people who care.

 

[GeorgeWBush]

OK so I have rearranged a few things and here is the new setup:



Managed to buy a new humidifier at walmart, put up my t-5 in place of an led, got the heater set at 80(really it's low to mid 70's in there). And:



Let's hope this solves it.

One thing I probably should have mentioned much earlier...



It's not only affecting the babies. This is a Super Silver Haze I was gifted that I've managed to turn into an eye-sore. This mama was transplanted about 2 weeks ago and has rooted into the new pot nicely. Hopefully she'll bounce back swiftly.

So, there you have it. Guess all we can do now is wait.

 

[Scrogerman]

I'm teaching what's worked for me on many many occasions in the past....20% to 35% RH is fine and is what I deal with during the winter all the time without any problems

If you don't let coco dry out and keep it hydrated with a nutrient solution there would be no problem, again I speak from personal experience otherwise I wouldn't bother posting...

Don't try to make me look bad because you don't understand the basics of growing in coco....

Chomp

Basics of growing MJ, ideal/optimal RH for raising Seedlings? doesnt matter what meadium or system you intend using.
I aint trying to make you look bad chomp man, dont think that mate, that is not my intention at all.
Rearing seedlings in 20-35% RH is not recommended is it?. Cannabis struggles to assimilate K in low RH & this will/can lead to deficiency.
I was just trying to point out that low RH will cause all sorts of issues thats all.
I never said 35%(wouldnt work), im saying 20% - 35% RH to rear seedlings can cause issues, doesnt matter what medium you use, be it coco, rockwool etc etc. seedling plants will struggle to grow properly in that arrid environment, you must know this?. that is basics. 70% would be optimal for seedlings, its at the other end of the RH scale.
Grow a plant in poor conditions & what do you get? poor growth etc!

My main point was to bring the RH issue to the table & show the possible implications of incorrect environment. I wasnt having a dig at you man at all. If you think that then i appoligise, that is not what i intended. A dome or plastic to raise RH was my contribution, & i was just backing up the message that Gauis & Bone had already conveyed.

Peace & Happy growing!

 

[Scrogerman]

OK so I have rearranged a few things and here is the new setup:



Managed to buy a new humidifier at walmart, put up my t-5 in place of an led, got the heater set at 80(really it's low to mid 70's in there). And:



Let's hope this solves it.

One thing I probably should have mentioned much earlier...



It's not only affecting the babies. This is a Super Silver Haze I was gifted that I've managed to turn into an eye-sore. This mama was transplanted about 2 weeks ago and has rooted into the new pot nicely. Hopefully she'll bounce back swiftly.

So, there you have it. Guess all we can do now is wait.

WhoRaaaaa! N1 mate, much better conditions bro, personally i think optimal environment is one of the stronger links in the chain to get optimal growth, in my book its V-important.

Looks like your on your way buddy! Sorry if i came to your thread & upset Chomp, thats not what i intended. Happy Growing bro!

Peace!

 

[Chomp]

Basics of growing MJ, ideal/optimal RH for raising Seedlings? doesnt matter what meadium or system you intend using.
I aint trying to make you look bad chomp man, dont think that mate, that is not my intention at all.
Rearing seedlings in 20-35% RH is not recommended is it?. Cannabis struggles to assimilate K in low RH & this will/can lead to deficiency.
I was just trying to point out that low RH will cause all sorts of issues thats all.
I never said 35%(wouldnt work), im saying 20% - 35% RH to rear seedlings can cause issues, doesnt matter what medium you use, be it coco, rockwool etc etc. seedling plants will struggle to grow properly in that arrid environment, you must know this?. that is basics. 70% would be optimal for seedlings, its at the other end of the RH scale.

Peace & Happy growing!

For someone that doesn't want to make someone look bad your choice of words are lousy....

I am telling you AND showing you with pictures that I grow in the same environment except for the leds as the OP and that the medium you're growing in does in fact matter when it comes to environment and humidity. The low range of my humidity was 25% and the high was 35% (8 day old seedlings) last night according to my therm/hygro meter and they've been in that range since they sprouted...AND I have sprouted and grown seedlings in coco within this range numerous times without issue.

Have you done this yourself Scrogerman or are you just repeating something you've heard someone else say????

I do in fact know what I am talking about from experience.

When the coco is kept hydrated without fans blowing on them, the seedling is in a more humid area than the rest of the grow space and it is not affected like a seedling that is in a medium that is being allowed to dry out OR that has fans blowing on them. That is why the low RH in a proper coco set up does not matter as much period. If you were correct then my seedlings would be crispy...I've shown you they are not.

To keep the coco properly hydrated you must have enough holes in the cups to provide for sufficient drainage. I melt 9-10 holes in the bottom with a framing nail in my cups....this ensures that the medium drains enough and I never have overwatering issues. This could be why the OP was having problems initially when the medium was kept moist or it could have been the nutrients he was using judging by the SSH mom.

I will agree that when he let the coco dry out that low RH could have caused even more problems, but I guarantee you that the pH and salt issues caused by letting it dry out are much more severe... he also stated the problems began before that though.

So the problems at this point are narrowed down to either...
1. poor drainage/let the coco dry out
2. improper pH range of nutrient solution
3. old or wrong dosage of nutrients
4. the led lights??? I have no experience with these so?
5. Fans blowing on the seedlings exacerbating the RH issue.
6. salts...from drying out or the coco may not have been rinsed thoroughly enough

I hope this helps...
Chomp

 

[gaiusmarius]

the thing is that it's actually quite easy to pop seeds, and they will normally pop under less then ideal conditions ok. that's why people with different methods get success. but once some thing does go wrong at that early stage it can be hard to save them and get them back on track, specially if your first diagnosis and treatment is the wrong one for the circumstances.

as far as i can see you have done everything you can at this stage, now it's up to the seedlings will to live.

although coco always has enough air as long as it can drain freely, many folks myself included have noticed that you can get a good growth spurt of roots by letting the pots dry slightly before watering, not totally light dry. specially with seedling in coco people have gotten in trouble when keeping the surface of the coco wet all the time.

of course if its a nutrient problem it's another matter altogether. my advise; get rock wool cubes to start your next seedlings in and make sure you have some proven nutrients. i can use my canna coco a+b on my rock wool seedlings or young clones no problem. although a nice veg nute is better, just used at reduced levels.

good luck with them, lets hope they survive.


edited to add: also the pot size has been seen to have an effect when popping seeds in coco. cups that are not to big seem to work better to begin them.

 

[Scrogerman]

For someone that doesn't want to make someone look bad your choice of words are lousy....

I am telling you AND showing you with pictures that I grow in the same environment except for the leds as the OP and that the medium you're growing in does in fact matter when it comes to environment and humidity. The low range of my humidity was 25% and the high was 35% (8 day old seedlings) last night according to my therm/hygro meter and they've been in that range since they sprouted...AND I have sprouted and grown seedlings in coco within this range numerous times without issue.

Have you done this yourself Scrogerman or are you just repeating something you've heard someone else say????

I do in fact know what I am talking about from experience.

When the coco is kept hydrated without fans blowing on them, the seedling is in a more humid area than the rest of the grow space and it is not affected like a seedling that is in a medium that is being allowed to dry out OR that has fans blowing on them. That is why the low RH in a proper coco set up does not matter as much period. If you were correct then my seedlings would be crispy...I've shown you they are not.

To keep the coco properly hydrated you must have enough holes in the cups to provide for sufficient drainage. I melt 9-10 holes in the bottom with a framing nail in my cups....this ensures that the medium drains enough and I never have overwatering issues. This could be why the OP was having problems initially when the medium was kept moist or it could have been the nutrients he was using judging by the SSH mom.

I will agree that when he let the coco dry out that low RH could have caused even more problems, but I guarantee you that the pH and salt issues caused by letting it dry out are much more severe... he also stated the problems began before that though.

So the problems at this point are narrowed down to either...
1. poor drainage/let the coco dry out
2. improper pH range of nutrient solution
3. old or wrong dosage of nutrients
4. the led lights??? I have no experience with these so?
5. Fans blowing on the seedlings exacerbating the RH issue.
6. salts...from drying out or the coco may not have been rinsed thoroughly enough

I hope this helps...
Chomp

I sugest you do your reasearch pal, RH for seedlings is a set recomendation & optimal conditions are not 25-35% its as simple as that, if you think any different, your wrong. plain & simple. id do some research if i was you Chomp.

I didnt say it wouldnt work but believe me man its way far from optimal. plants will 'not grow to full potential in less than optimal conditions, stop trying to justify this rubbish! your wrong!

I tried to appoligise because you seemed to take something i said the wrong way, thats your own problem. maybe my chioce of words was lousy, i am not the best at writing or explaining myself.

So the Domes over your cups in the background in your pics are just for show then?
Cant see any high RH/condensation in those can we? lol! Why have you got & using domes then?????

Take at look at my one album that ill alow the public to see if you wish to see my growing ability, my other albums are for my buddys/mods eyes only. I dont need to justify my growing skills one bit anyway! Facts are facts afterall!

and your comments that RH doesnt matter while growing in coco is just pure rubbish mate! & the pap about RH being high enough around the body of the seedling with moist coco, ive never heard such rot in all my life! & im sure the experts would back me up on those points! Trust me they do! ill go get a couple in here if you like!?

 

[Scrogerman]

For someone that doesn't want to make someone look bad your choice of words are lousy....

I am telling you AND showing you with pictures that I grow in the same environment except for the leds as the OP and that the medium you're growing in does in fact matter when it comes to environment and humidity. The low range of my humidity was 25% and the high was 35% (8 day old seedlings) last night according to my therm/hygro meter and they've been in that range since they sprouted...AND I have sprouted and grown seedlings in coco within this range numerous times without issue.

Of course this will work, but plants will not perform optimally in these conditions, thats a fact mate! The domes in your pics are just for show then ah?

Have you done this yourself Scrogerman or are you just repeating something you've heard someone else say????

many times in many differnt systems with various differnt mediums, it makes no difference, low RH can & will cause problems. have you ever heard of VPD?

I do in fact know what I am talking about from experience.
are you sure?


When the coco is kept hydrated without fans blowing on them, the seedling is in a more humid area than the rest of the grow space and it is not affected like a seedling that is in a medium that is being allowed to dry out OR that has fans blowing on them. That is why the low RH in a proper coco set up does not matter as much period. If you were correct then my seedlings would be crispy...I've shown you they are not.

Your very wrong on these points! This is what you need to research, if you want study papers i will provide links if you wish, so you can learn! i never said it wouldnt work at low RH!

To keep the coco properly hydrated you must have enough holes in the cups to provide for sufficient drainage. I melt 9-10 holes in the bottom with a framing nail in my cups....this ensures that the medium drains enough and I never have overwatering issues. This could be why the OP was having problems initially when the medium was kept moist or it could have been the nutrients he was using judging by the SSH mom.

Cant fault what your saying here, but it has nothing to do with RH.

I will agree that when he let the coco dry out that low RH could have caused even more problems, but I guarantee you that the pH and salt issues caused by letting it dry out are much more severe... he also stated the problems began before that though.

Same with any medium bro, trust me!

So the problems at this point are narrowed down to either...
1. poor drainage/let the coco dry out
2. improper pH range of nutrient solution
3. old or wrong dosage of nutrients
4. the led lights??? I have no experience with these so?
5. Fans blowing on the seedlings exacerbating the RH issue.
6. salts...from drying out or the coco may not have been rinsed thoroughly enough

I hope this helps...
Chomp

I do hope we can get along, i really didnt want this, but you insist ive insulted you in some way!! for that ill appoligise again, i aint seen you say sorry, i dont want conflict. I do sugest you read up on the problems that can arise from low RH!(especially with seedlings)

best of Luck to you chomp~~!

i still cant figure that bloody multiquote thing!

 

[GeorgeWBush]

Gaius, thanks for the clarification on that issue now it makes more sense. So if the medium becomes slightly dry it urges a growth spurt in the roots as a survival mechanism to find water. Makes sense.

One mistake I'll never make again is using nutrients that come from a questionable source. But the big lesson here is that climate is everything, especially for seedlings.

Going into the room today the thing that stands out the most is how comfortable it is in there. Now that I think about it, it was pretty cold and dry in there but I didn't really notice because the rest of the house is cold and dry. Now there is a drastic difference when I step foot in that closet. I think that probably was most of the issue.