heavy 16 nutrients
- Thread starter relic1981
- Start date
This and that... still using some no-name product if I need an addition to the organic fertiliser base but I'd like to change that. Either get something better adapted to my plants or mix it myself.
Apropos, I already mix everything else beyond base nutrients myself. Sometimes it's annoying but mostly it's fun, other times I don't know or care enough if this was now the perfect mix to use but at least I know exactly what my plants get.
Just take Heavy 16-Bud as an example. The description says [sic]:
"Cascading delivery of both organic and mineral Calcium and micronutrients
Natural and superior chelation through our ultra-fine proprietary mix of organic acids
Exotic trace mineral suite allowing for superior oil content and flavonoid expression"
Whyever they think it "cascade delivers"...
It's a nice touch to use for example different calcium salts but honestly, I don't see an advantage behind calcium chloride and calcium gluconate.
They also state "natural chelation" but on the product label list iron DTPA and iron EDDHA. Not saying these chelates aren't efficient but I don't like fully synthetic ones especially in products implying "natural" ingredients.
Also, that thing with "exotic trace minerals" is ridiculous. Somewhere they talk about 90+ different exotic minerals... if I add plain pottery clay to my soil, then I will likely add 90+ minerals with exotic names and different trace elements, both at way higher rates than can be included as clay in a liquid fertiliser. It's known for over hundred years (likely a lot longer but I haven't found any literature pre-dating that) that hemp grows best on clay-rich soil. This means, hemp/cannabis grown in good soil already has a high percentage of clay, adding a few mg with the watering will do nothing. If grown soillless, then adding minerals (minerals in a gemmology sense) is a very inefficient strategy even if it's fine clay particles.
And what should we do with "a superior oil content and flavonoid expression"? I'm not interested in oilseeds and flavonoids look nice but as long as they aren't eaten, they're quite useless regarding the plant in question.
That said, no, I'm absolutely not sold on that product line.
Apropos, I already mix everything else beyond base nutrients myself. Sometimes it's annoying but mostly it's fun, other times I don't know or care enough if this was now the perfect mix to use but at least I know exactly what my plants get.
Just take Heavy 16-Bud as an example. The description says [sic]:
"Cascading delivery of both organic and mineral Calcium and micronutrients
Natural and superior chelation through our ultra-fine proprietary mix of organic acids
Exotic trace mineral suite allowing for superior oil content and flavonoid expression"
Whyever they think it "cascade delivers"...
It's a nice touch to use for example different calcium salts but honestly, I don't see an advantage behind calcium chloride and calcium gluconate.
They also state "natural chelation" but on the product label list iron DTPA and iron EDDHA. Not saying these chelates aren't efficient but I don't like fully synthetic ones especially in products implying "natural" ingredients.
Also, that thing with "exotic trace minerals" is ridiculous. Somewhere they talk about 90+ different exotic minerals... if I add plain pottery clay to my soil, then I will likely add 90+ minerals with exotic names and different trace elements, both at way higher rates than can be included as clay in a liquid fertiliser. It's known for over hundred years (likely a lot longer but I haven't found any literature pre-dating that) that hemp grows best on clay-rich soil. This means, hemp/cannabis grown in good soil already has a high percentage of clay, adding a few mg with the watering will do nothing. If grown soillless, then adding minerals (minerals in a gemmology sense) is a very inefficient strategy even if it's fine clay particles.
And what should we do with "a superior oil content and flavonoid expression"? I'm not interested in oilseeds and flavonoids look nice but as long as they aren't eaten, they're quite useless regarding the plant in question.
That said, no, I'm absolutely not sold on that product line.
BubbaBear
Member
OO....lol, of course a guy like you(highly intelligent)can easily pick apart there mumbojumbo sales pitch, I laugh when I read that too but just about all companies do that shit though and they need to compete with companies like AN that are the kings of that shit.
Its a pretty amazing base though l can tell you that. It doesn't need cal mag, it yields well and you dont need to adjust the PH, three key things that most bases lack. The Bud formula also works great in veg, l actually prefer there Bud formula for veg, there Grow formula makes my plants grow to rapidly and I cant keep up. The Bud also grows a more woody thicker stalked darker green plant. Its definitely the best base I've found, l will use other additives if l run out but always stick with there base. Its priced right to I pay $60 for a 10 liter, there additives can get expensive but there very concentrated you typically use them at 1-3 ml a gallon.
When there talking about being chelated by natural organic acids and the 90 trace minerals I think there just talking about fulvic and humic acids there formulas contain lots of those. I think they just use the calcium gluconate in there Foliar product which is a amazing product, I think its the calcium gluconate in it that gives it its sticky oily like texture that kills bugs and makes your leafs shiny its a great product tho its basicly a calcium and natural plant based carb supplement that pumps health into your plants and it protects your plants and makes your branches super strong yet rubbery not brital like silica can do plus it can be mixed with any other foliar. The bio clays they talk about is technology they borrowed from Bloombastic which is also a top notch product, l think its another way of adding calcium and or silica.
I just talked one of my friends into trying Fire but he grows some serious dank using nothing but there base. Fire is a amazing booster as well, its a all around booster not just a PK booster, you can use it in veg and it makes your plants start stacking up better and use it all the way through flower and you never need more than 3ml a gallon.
Just about any grower that trys them out sticks with them, there simple to use they yield great and produce top quality. If your looking for a naturally chelated salt base without the DTPA and EDDHA check out Humbolt nutrients Master A&B it works great in veg and bloom too and is amino chelated I used it for years before switch to heavy with great results.
Its a pretty amazing base though l can tell you that. It doesn't need cal mag, it yields well and you dont need to adjust the PH, three key things that most bases lack. The Bud formula also works great in veg, l actually prefer there Bud formula for veg, there Grow formula makes my plants grow to rapidly and I cant keep up. The Bud also grows a more woody thicker stalked darker green plant. Its definitely the best base I've found, l will use other additives if l run out but always stick with there base. Its priced right to I pay $60 for a 10 liter, there additives can get expensive but there very concentrated you typically use them at 1-3 ml a gallon.
When there talking about being chelated by natural organic acids and the 90 trace minerals I think there just talking about fulvic and humic acids there formulas contain lots of those. I think they just use the calcium gluconate in there Foliar product which is a amazing product, I think its the calcium gluconate in it that gives it its sticky oily like texture that kills bugs and makes your leafs shiny its a great product tho its basicly a calcium and natural plant based carb supplement that pumps health into your plants and it protects your plants and makes your branches super strong yet rubbery not brital like silica can do plus it can be mixed with any other foliar. The bio clays they talk about is technology they borrowed from Bloombastic which is also a top notch product, l think its another way of adding calcium and or silica.
I just talked one of my friends into trying Fire but he grows some serious dank using nothing but there base. Fire is a amazing booster as well, its a all around booster not just a PK booster, you can use it in veg and it makes your plants start stacking up better and use it all the way through flower and you never need more than 3ml a gallon.
Just about any grower that trys them out sticks with them, there simple to use they yield great and produce top quality. If your looking for a naturally chelated salt base without the DTPA and EDDHA check out Humbolt nutrients Master A&B it works great in veg and bloom too and is amino chelated I used it for years before switch to heavy with great results.
You are my new Super Hero. You can rip all the nute companies and products in a language I can only partially understand.
You and BubbaBear are prolly right, most hydro companies are likely the same when it comes to marketing and a good sales pitch. Me on the other hand... I wonder who would buy stuff for which I wrote the label; the insert might take more space than the actual product.You are my new Super Hero. You can rip all the nute companies and products in a language I can only partially understand.
At least, this time my language wasn't too spaced out. After all, you got that I'm not hyping them up...
But back to topic: Anyone an idea why they (Heavy 16) add iron and molybdenum but no other micro-nutrients to their products? Or are these covered by the added clay (which would be somewhat astonishing, but you never know)?
BubbaBear
Member
I just know the list of ingredients on the bottles are worthless, they intentionally leave them as vague as possible and just list whats required by law just like all the other companies are doing, l think its partially to protect the formulas and mostly because its become a huge and expensive headache to register your products here in the states, each state has its own requirements for labeling and such.
That sounds awful... do the States the same with food, cosmetics, and the like too?
Why not simply demand that everything has to be listed?
IMHO if everything except the % (or absolute amounts) aren't listed, a sophisticated product is protected and unique enough. If everyone does it, all will be in the same boat but I guess it's not the hydro industry fighting such transparency and honesty but the big five Dow, BASF, Roche, Syngenta, and Monsanto.
It's obvious that such a public display of 'secret ingredients' didn't stop the cosmetics industries from selling hopes and dreams instead of beauty and youth.
Why not simply demand that everything has to be listed?
IMHO if everything except the % (or absolute amounts) aren't listed, a sophisticated product is protected and unique enough. If everyone does it, all will be in the same boat but I guess it's not the hydro industry fighting such transparency and honesty but the big five Dow, BASF, Roche, Syngenta, and Monsanto.
It's obvious that such a public display of 'secret ingredients' didn't stop the cosmetics industries from selling hopes and dreams instead of beauty and youth.
BubbaBear
Member
No as far as l know they don't most things are registered and labeled at a national level, each state has there own agricultural department l suppose it has something to do with that, l really dont know exactly maybe someone that knows more than me can chime in, one thing l know its a old out dated system that needs work. I do know California and Oregon are two of the hardest states to register products with thats why a lot of nutrient companies websites will ask what area your from, like on Heavy16.com it asks if u are from Oregon or California or other places, always select other places it gives you way more product info.
H
Huckster79
I'm a noob and have had amazing luck with it. First run base only w some kelp and cal mag and things went great. In fourth week of flower on my second run and got the full line minus roots... Amazing they are beyond beutiful... As for the foliar... You can see a difference in the plant within hours...
Does anyone know what about prime makes it ok to not ph? I have t been and it must work cuz they are happy... Just curious as to the why of that...
Does anyone know what about prime makes it ok to not ph? I have t been and it must work cuz they are happy... Just curious as to the why of that...
H
Huckster79
Anyone using prime know about how to ph? I haven't been w prime then noticed it says on feed chart: don't ph adjust when using h16 prime. Which iv not been. However it says in parenthesis "5.5-6.5 is acceptable starting point". My water is low 7s... should I ph adjust it then to the range before mixing anything????
H
Huckster79
Thanks,
Im justt trying coco, been in promix hp. Liking what im seeing so far. Seems really nice and my girls like it the coco girl just looks better tho they are not a controlled side by side just going off the eyevand intuition... i really like the idea of more frequent watering or feeding....
ClownKiller
New member
I start my rez with water ph at 5.8 before adding h16 and it stays at 5.8. My drain to waste rez lasts 2-3 days typically, and the second day it's always risen to 6.2, which I usually ph down to 5.8 again. Is this wrong? I've tried with and without airstones without much difference in ph. I need to double check what plain water rises to, seems like not that much more.
I get the same with their veg and bloom, and I don't use roots or flush.
My temperatures are dropping at night now and the veg seems to show it more now than before I started using h16. Has anyone else experienced this? Maybe something else
I get the same with their veg and bloom, and I don't use roots or flush.
My temperatures are dropping at night now and the veg seems to show it more now than before I started using h16. Has anyone else experienced this? Maybe something else
H
Huckster79
Are you using prome or just the bases? Also h16 says they discourge a bubbler in their brew... im a coco or promix guy so that bubbler stuff not in my a rea of expertise but that is from h16 literature..
ClownKiller
New member
AB Prime and Fire at the dosing from h16 nute calculator. I ran the Flush for a couple runs in flower and it did seem to help with the ph rising between feeds a little bit, but didn't help in keeping them from getting too salty by week 6. I'm curious if th complete line is necessary for ph stabilizing or just the prime
H
Huckster79
I beleive just the prime... idk if id worry about that swing but i know nothing of true hydroponics so i may be way off. In promix or coco that wouldnt bother me at all.... some folks let it wander a bit on purpose.... btw roots has some great reveiws of ppl that have tried diff root stimulators and the foliar is killer! The foliar i tell you, you can see the "perk" within hours from it. I quit using it regularly as with a small set up i outrow my
veg room if i push em to hard so now just use it when young and in times of stress. The shit goes a long way to as H16 recoments justba mist of it, you dont spray till its raining on the floor.... check foliar out....
veg room if i push em to hard so now just use it when young and in times of stress. The shit goes a long way to as H16 recoments justba mist of it, you dont spray till its raining on the floor.... check foliar out....
The foliar with fire and roots i think it was all together is even better than the foliar by itself. I cantremember but its like .5 of roots and fire . look it up on google
anyway its awesome, i dont use it any more cause i never use barely any of my foliar bottle and had throwing away stuff. but if i had any kind of probs or difciancies iduse it again
never in 3-4 years have i ph'd h16, i use the whole line excluding the base, but talked to owner and if i ran their base id have even better results
anyway its awesome, i dont use it any more cause i never use barely any of my foliar bottle and had throwing away stuff. but if i had any kind of probs or difciancies iduse it again
never in 3-4 years have i ph'd h16, i use the whole line excluding the base, but talked to owner and if i ran their base id have even better results
jessejames12345
Member
Does anyone else find that Prime blasts the ph down to the 4's ?
Using RO water , following the nute Calc off of Heavys website ..
Kinda scared too water this low - I have noticed it raises over a few days - up to the mid 6s.
Is the swing from low to high ph part of the idea ? Open up a wider range of ph for nute absobsorbtion?
Peace !
Jj
Using RO water , following the nute Calc off of Heavys website ..
Kinda scared too water this low - I have noticed it raises over a few days - up to the mid 6s.
Is the swing from low to high ph part of the idea ? Open up a wider range of ph for nute absobsorbtion?
Peace !
Jj
H
Huckster79
No iv ph sampled mine and almost always 6.5 on Within a couple points....My tap water runs an ez 7.5.... you using it all? Im not sure that matters or not...seems like it could
