What's new

Heaths latest tree grow

Status
Not open for further replies.

cyat

Active member
Veteran
Here's some info from Heath about D.O :


"In this you can see that at 19 deg C its about 9mg / L of DO, so not quite 1 mg for every C the temps are raised but a useful rule of thumb. this is sufficient for healthy plant growth, the optimum for nutrient temps is between 18 and 24c

As growers we are caught in a "catch 22" situation because DO is increased at low nutrient temps but the plant growth is regulated by performing countless numbers of biochemical reactions which will double for every increase of 10 degrees C degrees or on the other hand be cut in half for every reduction of 10 degrees C, so there is the dilemma...... which leads me on to some possible answers

The recirculating systems I use all rely on one simple fact and that is whenever air is in contact with the water, whether through natural or artificial means, a transfer of oxygen from the air to the water takes place at the surface which provides a good gas exchange allowing oxygen to enter the water and carbon dioxide to escape until the water becomes saturated. The speed at which oxygen from the air enters and mixes through a system depends on the amount of agitation at the water surface, the depth of the system and the rate at which it mixes itself.

When normal airstones are used most of the DO is obtained when the bubble forms and then by water movement at the surface, so most of the DO is created by water movement at the surface rather than bubbles as most people think. Another thing growers should consider is the practice of placing a large airstone underneath the roots and allowing it to bubble away furiously can cause mechanical damage to the roots and the turbulence can cause stress. Much better to have the bubbles generated in a remote rez and recirculate them through the system.

Ceramic Micro air Diffusers (CMD) are brilliant for aerating your system, if you have never seen one running you are in for a treat, when you first run one its a surprise to see what looks like milk streaming out of the diffuser! or a bit like underwater fog, with one of these you can oversaturate depending on the size of the diffuser or system but not to the point that the system is toxic. If you decide to use one of these, depending on how good the CMD is you can run them intermittently as the DO will stay in the system for about 20 mins .

I wouldn't recommend the use of CMD with oxygen as you would run the real risk of it becoming toxic but not at the levels you suggest it would have to be more than double 14mg DO / L."
 

cyat

Active member
Veteran
Here's some more info on D.O from Heath:

"The water comes into contact with the air in the rez and also around the inner pot. If you notice all these systems have a external rez which the water flows from and back to. Whenever air is in contact with the water, whether through natural or artificial means, a transfer of oxygen from the air to the water takes place until the water becomes saturated. so it doesn't matter that the inner pot sits in the water as the water is already fully saturated with air from the rez. I hope that makes sense.


Ok just to make things as clear as mud here is a summery of whats been discussed so far.

Dissolved oxygen (DO) is one of the single most important factors in hydroponics. If DO concentrations are low plants cannot take up nutrients, they will grow slowly or not at all, and they will be susceptible to disease. where concentrations are very low, plants may die from lack of oxygen.

Wherever water is in contact with the atmosphere, oxygen from the air will enter the water until the pressure of oxygen in water and air are equal. This is known as equilibrium or saturation. The concentration of DO at saturation increases with increasing pressure and decreases with increasing water temperature.

When water contains less oxygen than the saturation concentration, oxygen from the atmosphere diffuses into the water, Oxygen will be added to a recirculating system at almost any point where the water surface is in contact with the atmosphere.


The addition of a air stone can be useful but not in the way that most growers think. If the recirculating water is at full saturation then the addition of air stones wont make any difference whatsoever, if the water is low in DO for whatever reason, then the addition of an air stone would increase DO simply by the action of moving the water and allowing more contact area at the water surface as I mentioned earlier "Wherever water is in contact with the atmosphere, oxygen from the air will enter the water until the pressure of oxygen in water and air are equal". This can also be achieved by simply placing a small submerged pump in your rez.

Good diffusers and Protein skimmers will add Do because of the small bubble size they produce, typically less than 1 millimetre (mm) in average diameter, compared to 3 to 5 mm or more for aquarium type air stones. For example, decreasing the bubble size from 2.4 mm to 0.4 mm would increase the contact area between the air and water by a factor of five. An additional benefit of small bubbles is they take much longer to rise. A good diffuser will supersaturate your water which wont directly benefit the plant as it cant use the extra DO but it might indirectly help by increasing the numbers of beneficial bacteria and reducing harmful ones.


I hope that helps clears things up because we are in danger of sending everyone who looks in to sleep


Heath"
 

cyat

Active member
Veteran
Bout to flip!
 

Attachments

  • Camera Pics 041.jpg
    Camera Pics 041.jpg
    105.1 KB · Views: 32
  • Camera Pics 046.jpg
    Camera Pics 046.jpg
    67.5 KB · Views: 30
  • Camera Pics 048.jpg
    Camera Pics 048.jpg
    97 KB · Views: 28
  • Camera Pics 027.jpg
    Camera Pics 027.jpg
    103.1 KB · Views: 29
  • Camera Pics 040.jpg
    Camera Pics 040.jpg
    93.4 KB · Views: 36
  • Camera Pics 039.jpg
    Camera Pics 039.jpg
    95.4 KB · Views: 26
  • Camera Pics 021.jpg
    Camera Pics 021.jpg
    46.3 KB · Views: 22
  • Camera Pics 016.jpg
    Camera Pics 016.jpg
    118.7 KB · Views: 29
  • Camera Pics 015.jpg
    Camera Pics 015.jpg
    57.7 KB · Views: 28
  • Camera Pics 014.jpg
    Camera Pics 014.jpg
    112.5 KB · Views: 27

somoz

Active member
Veteran
Yo DHF, good to see ya around bud......somehow missed this and been away from the boards for awhile but wanted to say respect to Heath. Him, yourself, the k-man, blaze and some other gentleman were real inspirations to me when I first started growing in water culture hydro systems.....first grow ever was in one of those under the bed plastic bed totes in a little cubby hole closest in my attic....one plant, 8oz later, shallow water culture baby!

@ the toxicity discussion.....maybe only so much room in the roots/veins of the plant. at some point there is a saturation level where the plant can no longer uptake the oxygen but I'm interested as well to see if there actually could be a toxic level? Would be a fun experiment to try and blast massive levels of DO into the root system and see what happens.

Thanks for sharing those posts cyat, really good info......your plants look like they are about to take off, great work man!
 

cyat

Active member
Veteran
Somoz,
Don't know about toxicity , but I feel safe to say this has enough d.o. , and doesn't need any air stones.Glad you approve!
Swampy, thanks for the encouragement!
Just moved em into the flower room, easy as pie. The branches feel like they are made out of steel. Yanked the roots out the res, felt like pulling rope on a boat. Easier than moving a soil plant , light as fuck once I siphoned out the water. Had a crazy light hanging revelation, I'll hit up some pics soon. Anyway gotta finish plumbing.This is pretty much the only way I want to grow from now on! Vegged for 7ish weeks and bigger than a soil plant vegged 3 mos. in a 25 gal pot. Got some extra aero clones that are fat, might throw in a couple aero buckets too. :)
 
D

DHF

Better staple some chickenwire to the ceiling ta hold those bitches up come a month from now if not sooner Cyat...

And yeah.....roots follow the path of least resistance in recirculating hydro setups unfortunately......but.....

You`ve gotta block that with screen of some sort till end of stretch and no more roots are bein built......

Sup Moz man.......After usin air compressors with krusty buckets and pumpin heat into the rootzones for over 8 yrs , Heathie talked me into DIY ebb and flow buckets with NO "air to roots" , but it`d take more plants per sq ft and bulletproof with timed feeds and no feed lights off....but.....

I added "thru-hull" bait aerators for dissolved O2 in my bigass rez`s with millions of micro bubbles that stayed in suspension instead of floatin to the top and goin away before ever bein pumped into and out of my buckets...........

The big thing about Dissolved 02 is that more`s available at 61-65 degrees , but the plants really like warmer rootzone temps closeta 70-ish ......Never went beyond that from fear of rootrot.....

Never looked back for well on 5 yrs till he came up with his vertical racks with even MORE increased plant numbers .........Took me couple months to convert all the rooms over but it was 1 lb increase per room that paid for the renovations.....

Biggest thing about recirculating hydro setups with big bottom containers is that you`ve gotta veg long enough and know how much/many more roots will be produced to fill "Said " bottom container for optimum nutrient uptake once stretch is over and swellage begins...

Toxic levels of dissolved O2 would haveta be explained by Heathie cuz I know not.......

My 2 cents.....DHF........
 
Last edited:
D

DHF

Sorry Bro..no pics.....

Sorry Bro..no pics.....

Been shutdown for almost yr and a half Zeno from close Bro gettin popped , but Heath`s vertical racks are at a few weedsites and also at Urban Garden Magazine.......

I think yas can google em but not sure.......My setups were DTW coco #5 smartpots fed once a day with angled corners holding all the equipment like a/c`s and dehuey`s thru-wall ta keep as much heat out of the rooms as possible with everything covered in reflectix for bouncin lumens all round the rooms......

4 plants on 4 levels on 4 walls on angled racks pointed right at 3-600`s on top of each other in 6' x 6' "inside dimension" flip rooms for a total of 64-1 1/2 oz plants harvied regular for a few yrs.....

Heath`s original setup was recirculating in smaller containers of hydroton with 4' x 6' rectangles inside dimensions with I wanna say like 87 plants on 3 levels ......

He built the first 1 for runnin his breeding experiments straight 12/12 from seed to find the best pheno`s in lots less time for the faster advancement of the strain/varieties he was tinkerin with........

Long story short , he added some extra cuts from another location to fill the room up , and with 2-600`s side by side in that lil bitty room , he pulled over 4 lbs........

To say the least I was hooked........The first requirement is 50 watts per sq ft minimum for maximum dense nuggage , and dialing a strain straight from fully rooted cut with very lil pre-vegtime along with pruning and shaping before goin into the bloom rooms and flipped 12/12.......then.......after end of stretch not be too close to the bare bulbs to prevent bleaching and heat stress through end of cycle....

The last and most important requirement is increased plant numbers......as many as yas can squeeze next to each other , above , and below without em competing for light or environment......but.....

It`s environment that`s even more important than light in smaller rooms IME..........

Ya`ll take care...DHF......:ying:.......
 

fletchman

New member
What does Heath do to prevent root rot, he says he doesn't use chillers. What are his rez temps, does he use H2O2 or Zone or something?

It would really suck to have a big tree going and have root issues.
 

cyat

Active member
Veteran
Down2grow,
Thanks for asking ! I'll snap some pics when the sun comes up tonight. About one week of flowering now. Hittin em with ionic bloom, ionic boost 0-5-6( I think,) and a little silica. Letting the veg nutes fade out as I add.

Building a 4 site veg unit right now. Got a 800gph pump, and a $20 jig saw for cutting the lids. Tired of destroying em with a razor blade. Same design , but a circle with buckets that can spin 1/4 turn at a time. This time starting with clones on steroids that have 3ft. roots already. The aerocloner has turned into an aerovegger.
 

Lex Dysic

Member
I've used tomato cages with good results too....still had to do some tying....but provided good support overall....that was with lava rock so they didn't move around....not sure if that would work with expanded clay stuff....

acecage.jpg


Take care.
Lex
 

down2grow

Member
Down2grow,
Thanks for asking ! I'll snap some pics when the sun comes up tonight. About one week of flowering now. Hittin em with ionic bloom, ionic boost 0-5-6( I think,) and a little silica. Letting the veg nutes fade out as I add.

Building a 4 site veg unit right now. Got a 800gph pump, and a $20 jig saw for cutting the lids. Tired of destroying em with a razor blade. Same design , but a circle with buckets that can spin 1/4 turn at a time. This time starting with clones on steroids that have 3ft. roots already. The aerocloner has turned into an aerovegger.

Cool, can't wait for an update! What lights are you using for the four site veg area?

D2G
 

cyat

Active member
Veteran
Here's some shots of my new veg system, under construction. My overgrown cloner, and the 2 bubbas , 1 week into flower. The small one is purple bubba and had 2 weeks less veg than the regular bubba.
I'm gonna use a 6 or a thou vertical w/ the new vegging plants. Thanks for the input lex. D2G, did you build one yet? BillyLiar , nice system I was checkin your grow! Bout to tie her up soon. Stalk is massive. Heath, diggin your new system, nice pics!
 

Attachments

  • Camera Pics 250.jpg
    Camera Pics 250.jpg
    67 KB · Views: 23
  • Camera Pics 252.jpg
    Camera Pics 252.jpg
    32.5 KB · Views: 21
  • Camera Pics 248.jpg
    Camera Pics 248.jpg
    117.3 KB · Views: 19
  • Camera Pics 245.jpg
    Camera Pics 245.jpg
    115.9 KB · Views: 24
  • Camera Pics 244.jpg
    Camera Pics 244.jpg
    114.6 KB · Views: 22
  • Camera Pics 243.jpg
    Camera Pics 243.jpg
    114.8 KB · Views: 23
  • Camera Pics 242.jpg
    Camera Pics 242.jpg
    124 KB · Views: 24
  • Camera Pics 241.jpg
    Camera Pics 241.jpg
    121.4 KB · Views: 23
  • Camera Pics 228.jpg
    Camera Pics 228.jpg
    82.5 KB · Views: 20
  • Camera Pics 262.jpg
    Camera Pics 262.jpg
    123.6 KB · Views: 21
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top