Hawaii's Landmark MMJ Law A Shell Game

[festivus]

Hawaii's medical marijuana law, the first in the U.S. to have been legislated (as opposed to those that came from the initiative process) has, in reality become nothing more than an empty shell of a law, an empty promise to sick and dying patients.

The legislation signed into law came at a time when the AIDS epidemic was in full swing. Lawmakers supported HI's Compassionate Use Act because they felt true compassion for those who were suffering. No doubt, many legislators had lost relatives to AIDS and cancer, and had seen the pain and suffering first-hand.

As a Hawaii cardholder for several years, I can personally attest to the difficulty in procuring an adequate supply of medicine. I'm partially disabled and in constant pain from degenerative disease in my spine. Smoking raw cannabis allows me to earn a living and enjoy my life, while still being able to fulfill my civic and family responsibilities. However, if I didn't grow my own meds I would be in trouble. I can't imagine having cancer and trying to grow for myself.

My doctor (the administrator for a large clinic) knows my medical history and has seen all the films. Yet he refuses to give me a mmj recommendation, yet has been fine with writing me scrips for hundreds of painkillers. His reason- "there's too much room for abuse, NOT saying that YOU would abuse it yourself". My stomach is a wreck now, yet he's more than happy to write me another scrip. Great, take a pill before I take a pill! No thanks, I'll stick to the natural relief I get with cannabis.

Now, with the re-indictment of the Patients Without Time defendants, and the takedown of Roger Christie and the big island collective, legitimate cardholders are suffering and having to go without.

These were the only 2 "dispensaries" we had in Hawaii, and now they're gone. Today, patients that aren't able to grow themselves, have no other alternative but to go to the black market, exposing them to a variety of dangers.

It seems the law has left MMJ patients HIGH and Dry in Hawaii. Well, just dry anyway...

 

[hotmellons]

everything too much money hear

 

[<~Hades~>]

There nobody in the big island that knows one Hawaiian that cant score some weed !!!

all you need to know is one local

 

[GEMiNi GENETiCS]

well this is truely sad, but remember there is always a silver lining and who knows maybe in the up coming year someone will move to Hawai'i and have the ability to provide patcients with cheap medicine and keep a steady flow growing

You just never know what the new year shall bring

 

[Bulénath]

There nobody in the big island that knows one Hawaiian that cant score some weed !!!

all you need to know is one local

Yep. And still the Big Island is flooded to the point where prices here on Oahu- IN AUGUST of all dry season months, are being pushed down because of all the big island import.

There is more 'Big Island Import' than any other weed on the market right now. Ounces are flying for $350 of grade A+, and the competition is really tough, even in downtown Honolulu and the richer places as well.

well this is truely sad, but remember there is always a silver lining and who knows maybe in the up coming year someone will move to Hawai'i and have the ability to provide patcients with cheap medicine and keep a steady flow growing

You just never know what the new year shall bring

That seems to be the direction the wind is blowing, and those lucky enough to not only sense it and ballsy enough to make a move, will still have to deal with the competition that is getting worse and worse.

What baffles me is that Kauai of all islands installed some kind of X-ray body scanner that can show unusual objects, like a quarter pound of hash strapped to your nuts.

We all know the pigs out here are cashing in.

And even in simple smuggler cases, so many people are bringing over 5+ pounds at a time!


I have goal to one day be a care taker for many others and start a small dispensary when the time comes over here. I plan to charge no more than $300 an ounce, which isn't that much profit even when hitting the 1GPW ratio. I just really want to help sick people out here. But each year it is getting harder and harder to compete with everyone else jumping in the game...

The quality keeps getting better and the prices are still dropping.

On the other hand, for some strange reason, out in Waianae, Eigths are going for $80. Fuck!

 

[GEMiNi GENETiCS]

Yeah my dude its crazy the pricing out there...I wouldnt even bother with indoors for a 1GPW ratio...veg indoors in 30-gal Smart Pots then move em outside and into the ground or not to flower out...I'll be shootin' for the 1-2kilo per plant mark which is totally possible during my summer months if I put 3' clones outside at the end of May (to keep them from flowering then re-vegging). Yeah while I was on Maui it was at the $50 an 1/8th mark. Im hoping that they open up the law a bit to allow more than 3 flowering and 7 total per MMJ patient cause that's really not enough IMHO...to keep a steady supply for a large population of patients on the islands someone would need at least 6-7 mothers (to help cover a multitude of ailments), take about 10-15 clones off a few mother's each round, veg time then stagger the plants going out so your chopping 2-3kilo's per month and someone would also need to have at least 1-2lbs sitting around just for back-up/cover for all the patients.

 

[Bulénath]

Yeah my dude its crazy the pricing out there...I wouldnt even bother with indoors for a 1GPW ratio...veg indoors in 30-gal Smart Pots then move em outside and into the ground or not to flower out...I'll be shootin' for the 1-2kilo per plant mark which is totally possible during my summer months if I put 3' clones outside at the end of May (to keep them from flowering then re-vegging). Yeah while I was on Maui it was at the $50 an 1/8th mark. Im hoping that they open up the law a bit to allow more than 3 flowering and 7 total per MMJ patient cause that's really not enough IMHO...to keep a steady supply for a large population of patients on the islands someone would need at least 6-7 mothers (to help cover a multitude of ailments), take about 10-15 clones off a few mother's each round, veg time then stagger the plants going out so your chopping 2-3kilo's per month and someone would also need to have at least 1-2lbs sitting around just for back-up/cover for all the patients.

Oahu's and Maui's Kilowatt per Hour cost is roughly $0.22 cents now (if not higher)- double that of the Mainland's highest KwPH rate. On all other islands it is $0.32!!!

Here's the info:
http://www.heco.com/portal/site/hec...tfmt=defau&vgnextrefresh=1&level=0&ct=article

Regardless, I still prefer growing indoor opposed to outdoor because there are less variables such as insects, tweakers/rippers, weather, green harvest, etc...

One of the main problems with being a care taker in Hawai'i has much to do with the limited space. We are but small islands after all, and rent is amongst the highest in the nation. The cost of living is the highest in the nation, hands down. So there is little 'private space' available, and those lucky enough to afford it on the best market- the oahu market- will still pay a ridiculous amount.

For about $2,000 a month, you can get a 2 or 3 bedroom, one bath cottage with a yard, but that high price will NOT buy you any privacy. Most of the housing here is divided into suburbs. Almost every house is situated so at least one neighbor can see your back yard! Talk about becoming a paranoid hermit that never leaves home!

If you are lucky enough to score a very private lot in the country for a decent price by Oahu standards, chances are it will be in a rain forest area- mostly the Ko'olau range on the east side...like Punalu'u or Ka'a'awa, where at most spots your plants will be more susceptible to mold and mildew. Althogh the east side does have the most private lots for the best price, the prime ones are usually 1-3 acres for lease or sale.
There are very outdoor prime growing locations such as Ewa side, Waianae, Waialua, Kahuku, Mokuleia, but the problems is, IMHO, is that there are too many tweakers and rippers in these areas to accomplish an addequate outdoor, legal grow for patients that will depend on you.

My ultimate dream would be a very private large designated growing area out in Waianae, preferably in Lualualei valley, the largest valley in all the Hawaiian Islands, where there are some organic farms and where the soil is so unique it is found on no other place on earth. There lay a special 'self composting soil' which today native Hawaiians and farmers are trying to restore and reclaim from the American Millitary and return it to agricultural use.
There has been some progress, but limited success in doing so.


Living as a true farmer in Hawaii does take a special knowledge of the Island in which you grow on. This is primarily due to the fact that there is no other place on earth were one can find so many diverse ecosystems in such a small area. Here in Hawaii, within five miles you can go from the wettest tropical rain forests on earth, to sub tropical, to shrublands, to deserts, to coast line, to coral reefs. So where you live has a HUGE impact on the climate you will have to deal with, and the neccessary precautions, changes/adaptations that will have to be made.

As an indoor grower living in a hotter, drier part of Oahu, I have found it very hard to keep temperatures low enough. For instance, right now in the summer, between the hours of 10am all the way to 2am, the ambient temperature in our single walled house averages 80-87F, with all the windows open and a strong coast line breeze.
During 2am to 10am, the temperature does drop to about 75F. So between two care takers and our two patients which require a total of 1500w of light, I need 1500w of Air Conditioning just to stabilize the temperature and humidity!!!


To Festivus and all who come across this thread:

In the end, it seems that we will all one day have to start a co-op. I see the future of Hawai'i's Medical Marijuana in no other light. If we do not cooperate with eachother now, the Big Buisness WILL take over yet another wonderful thing that could help everyone.

We the Hawaiian people need a grass roots Co-op that revives the land which has been polluted by Dole, big buisness and American Millitary. Which revives the hearts, minds and souls of the native Hawaiian people- not only providing them with jobs but reconnecting our people to our sacred land, our ancestory and history and our identity. Which in turn revives our community as a whole while also providing safe access that can divert a large percentage of Islanders away from Meth, alcohol and other dangerous drugs.

If we cooperate with eachother, then we can use the turning tides of Hawaii to benefit those entities who need it the most- The Hawaiian people, the Land, and those who care enough about both to dedicate our lives to a just cause all while doing what we love.

To those who feel the same way, to those who want to come to Hawai'i with the intent of helping people in need, let us not forget the words of King Kamehameha III-
"Ua Mau Ke Ea O Ka Aina I Ka Pono" - "The Life of the Land is Perpetuated in Righteousness"

 

[festivus]

Great post Bulenath with lots of great points. I agree with them all.

The 2 failed attempts at dispensaries shows that hand-to-hand, CASH transactions eventually corrupted what started out with good intentions. And let's get real, expecting dispensaries to be NON PROFIT is insane, and un-American!

So we're expected to either grow our own or go the black market and possibly support Mexico's brand of terrorism?

I'm with you dude, let's start that collective right here, right now. There are several HI growers on ICMag that could give it a great start!

 

[Bulénath]

A bunch of my close friends are practicing lawyers on Oahu, one of which is an intern at the Hawaii chapter of NORML.

I am going to invite this person over for dinner and have a discussion about it. In the mean time, if anyone can think of good questions to ask this lawyer, please share them here.

I never get my hopes up, but one thing I learned from each lawyer is that when it comes to every question about law, the answer is always "It depends".

One question is the law regarding the caretaker/patient agreement. Let's say a legal grower has a bad crop that gets destroyed. Now his legal patient with AIDS has no access to medicine. How can a different legal grower provide safe access to these people under the state law?

So we shall start this topic here and now and see what we all can do!


Festivus,
Could you PM the other HI members of Icmag and share the link to this thread with them?

 

[Bulénath]

Hawaii Medical Marijuana Safe Access Co-op.

Hawaii Medical Marijuana Safe Access Co-op.

Surprised to find no one has any good questions for the up coming dinner, which will now include three lawyers!!!

Here is what is going on so far, and I have a very good feeling about this

Obama recently passed a law that is relevant to lawyers- basically if one works for a non-profit organization or government branch for 10 years upon graduation, their entire student debt will be paid for.

Now many young lawyers that just graduated within the last few years are seriously considering starting non-profit organizations so they can pretty much work from home. Most have student debts up to $200,000. There are three lawyers that are very interested in what we are trying to accomplish. Together they specialize in criminal law, Native Hawaiian Rights, Environmental law and the other is an intern for the Hawaii chapter of NORML.

The dinner is scheduled to happen within three weeks. We are going to discuss how to start a co-op in Hawaii that wil ultimately give back to the people and the land.

So far I have concluded that in order to make this work, all marijuana provided and 'donations' given must be traceable and legal within Hawaii Law. In other words no hand to hand, cash only transactions and all medicine must be donated by those legally entitled to grow. Everything must be on paper. We must also set up a quality control and regulate the product by a high standard, so as to supply patients with quality medicine.

Second, the state cannot be in a conspiracy against it self, so all of the profit will go directly to a non-profit organization that gives straight back to the community.

Here is what I have envisioned-
Care takers joining together to form a grass roots movement where each will provide a certain amount of medicine for free, to be dispensed to the most disabled persons such as cancer victims and AIDS patients. Lets say each one of us donates a one ounce surplus per month, for free, to our Co-op. For a $200 donation, patients in need will recieve an ounce of grade-A ganja for free. Each $200 donation will be traceable through bank records, using checks, special consent forms, etc...
The $200 will go to a non-profit organization that we the co-op will create, with the ultimate goal to revive agricultural land and the community.
Growers who participate in providing safe access will earn a name in the up-coming MMJ scene, giving all of us the advantage when dispensaries are allowed, or the law is changed.

This is just a rough draft of what I have put together so far.


Comments, questions, advice, etc, is greatly appreciated!

Aloha

 

[Bulénath]

Double post, please delete...

Double post, please delete...

double post (wont let me delete)

 

[festivus]

I like where you're going with the new co-op. I agree it has to be transparent. I've got a bit of a problem with the "non profit" aspect though. Cultivators should be no different than any other entrepeneur- they should be fairly rewarded for their time and expense as well as the daily risks they must take.

 

[<~Hades~>]

What happens to all the poor hawaiians that make extra dough selling herb to hoale donkeys and homies,,,,,,,,,Off to cali,vegas ,Az for mexicans to ship back more meth and get payed ,,

store front, co ops, And even the bane of medical>>> MJ dispensaryz,,,,,,

Only thing that needs to be worked on is for people to be able to care for 5-6 people like Oregon I think, And they have Higher # in veg per card like 25,,,,,but only like 4-5 plants blooming per card

 

[festivus]

This article by Katheryn Cruz was posted on KITV's website-

Medical Marijuana Trends Spur Review

HONOLULU -- A Washington state lawmaker and criminal justice expert is making the rounds this week to talk about medical marijuana. Rep. Roger Goodman met with local lawmakers, and the Hawaii Bar Association to lay the groundwork for reforming drug policies.

Goodman says Washington state is about on par with Hawaii when it comes to medicinal cannibis laws. Goodman has been traveling to see how other states have established regulated marijuana dispensaries. Goodman said he wants to avoid the mistakes that other locales have run into.

“It really is an urgent matter to create a safe distribution system for those who can use it medically,” said Washington state Rep Roger Goodman.

Tuesday Goodman spoke to a group at the Neil Blaisdell Center. The event was sponsored by the American Civil Liberties Union and the Drug Policy Forum of Hawaii.

The owner of a Kalihi garden shop says he sees customers come in all the time who don’t know where to go for help and don’t know who to ask.

“No matter what, they are still scared. They are always scared to say I am part of this program. I can grow medical marijuana.' They are scared because they think I might me a cop," said Aron Gonsalves, owner of Green Hands of Aloha.

The trend to move toward regulated dispensaries is something that some say Hawaii needs to begin talking about.10 years ago Hawaii was the first state to legislatively make medical marijuana legal. But those laws have not been updated since.

“If a person is prescribed medical cannabis, how does one start growing a plant, or how does one get seeds? That is not addressed in any law,”said Sen. Will Espero.

He expects the issue to come up at the next legislative session.

 

[GEMiNi GENETiCS]

Well if all goes well I'll be joining the cause out there guys! I stayed out there all winter going to O'ahu, Maui, Big Island and Kaua'i... I found a pretty sweet spot...its cheap and been on the market for a little while now and hopefully its still on the market this winter...gotta get my crop chopped first...then its game on!

What's the thoughts of a roofless greenhouse? Its outdoors so you dont spend $$ on electricity, its got 4 walls and lockable so its technically legal.

How many patients are you allowed? Including yourself?

really the islands are promoting the sale of MMJ on the black market and the laws are set in place as a count down to arrest you because how practical is 7 plants and 3 flowering with only 2oz? Sure I could push out some multi pounders and keep the legal plant # limit but obviously I'd be slightly over the dry flower limit lol

 

[41hope]

Legalization?

Legalization?

How far away is Hawaii from legalization?

 

[Greyskull]

from what i understand a designated caregiver is allowed only a single patient...
each patient is allowed 7 total plants - 4 veg & 3 flowering, and up to 3oz of finished plant material (buds, hash, oil, butter).

41hope - hawaii was the FIRST state to recognize medicinal use of cannabis

 

[GEMiNi GENETiCS]

yeah that's terribly ignorant on their parts they must realize their laws are out of date and must be revised to give more breathing room to the growers or at least allow it to be a legal market with a few dispensaries on each island so patients can buy hash, kief, bud, seeds, clones, edibles, oil, butter...and growers can grow in more of an abundance to supply the dispensaries...gettin 20#s to a legal business that can control who buys or whatever...I am into breeding on the hobbyist level for now and there is no way I could stay legal and breed...its just terrible...let me take on 5 or 6 patients and I can supply them off one plant every month and have the rest for breeding projects that could be put towards getting clones and seeds to patients that would like to grow their own.

 

[festivus]

Hey GG, c'mon on out man, we need all the growers we can get. I wouldn't go roofless (too much advertising), but they do make an opaque plastic greenhouse sheet that lets in like 80% of the light and totally blocks the view. The law only allows 1 patient per caregiver, and the 3 oz rule is a joke.

 

[festivus]

._.