Hard Water, High Alkalinity - how to fix

[blueberrydrumz]

Hi Peeps,

it seems Alkalinity of the Irrigation Water is more important than most of us believe, i live in a hard water area & our water has a Carbonate hardness of about 196ppm & a Total hardness of about 300ppm PH of 7.4

I read here (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...tXwfXz&sig=AHIEtbRPBrj-tP0u2p39cehOen0UJtuUJg) on page 2
"All of the
alkalinity has been neutralized when the pH of the water
reaches 4.5"

so anyone here know if this works, and if so how to do it? PH all the way down to 4.5, then PH up again to get to 5.8??

thx in advance

 

[Wav3F0rm]

mine is just under 200, which from all i can gather is like around the limit for all thats do-able. AALLL of my searching led me to a blueberry growing forum, and blueberries like more acidic soil. After a lot of discussion, there was some one who chimed in and said she just paid attention to how much she needed to add in order to use up all the buffering capacity of the water, at which point the PH will hold. I've found this too, now i just add as much as i need right away, let it sit for a little over 24hrs and i'm then good to go. PH is set at the waterworks around 8-8.5 to keep the pipes from corroding, they mostly use calcium, with lesser magnesium and then some other stuff. For me, i add 1 1/2 teaspoons of citric acid and the PH jumps way down to around 4, then levels back out around 6.5-7. However, this was gone over in another thread, the salt content jumps around A LOT, especially during winter with whats added to the roads. Its a battle for sure, but this is the best way i've found to do it.

 

[PetFlora]

You need an RO. Google Merlin

 

[jonnybgood29]

used to live where the water was rated at top five for country. had to use muratic(hydrochloric ) acid to breakdown alkalinity. let it sit for 24hr minimum to dissipate and then used the water. normal ph adjusters never worked. ph would bounce right back up every time!

use ro if you can!

 

[Joedoe555]

used to live where the water was rated at top five for country. had to use muratic(hydrochloric ) acid to breakdown alkalinity. let it sit for 24hr minimum to dissipate and then used the water. normal ph adjusters never worked. ph would bounce right back up every time!

use ro if you can!

My tap water is around ph 9. I have a bottle of hydrochloric acid made for swiming pools that I have been thinking about using as a ph down. Did your plants respond well to the hydrochloric acid?

 

[jonnybgood29]

yes, just remember that i tiny bit goes a long way. strt out at 2-3 drops per galon and let it sit for 24 hours. check ph. adjust amount it takes to keep ph to where you want and record how much it took to drop and maintain proper ph. dont use water for 24 hours after adding acid to allow it to stabilize and dissipate chlorine!

 

[Ziggaro]

freedrinkingwater.com

get an RO you won't be disappointed. This one all made in USA- longest membrane life I've seen.

everything else should be a temporary fix, with water like yours.

Add all that up and down to that quality water and you are asking for lockout.

 

[jonnybgood29]

ro is great my friend zig.... just giving peeps with little cash a cheap way to solve issues until they can afford something else! grow on my friends.

 

[blueberrydrumz]

hi, thx for the replys peeps, yeah i figure a RO fixture will do the trick... then mix 50/50 with tap water.... that should be best - but till then ill just need to keep taking it down with nitric acid (canna ph - ) every 24 hrs... a pain in the *** peace

 

[CannaBrix]

I am toying with ideas on how to fix high alkalinity. Acids are not supposed to be good, because why add more to the water you are trying to neutralize?

My ideas are:
1. Use citric acid as a neutralizer. There will be no added nutrient value, and so my water will now be suitable to use for irrigation. Downfall: I will have to find a way to test alkalinity.

2. RO filter. Pretty self explanatory, gives me almost pure water. Will now have to think about low alkalinity, which can also be a problem.

3. Rain water. Should be perfect to use. Collecting the water is the issue.

Here is a link I found very helpful. http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/floriculture/plugs/alkalinity.pdf

That site gave a place you can get alkalinity tests, but I don't know if it has closed since the article was written.

 

[Mr Heechops]

a water softener can fix it too - but use potassium chloride salt instead of regular salt. RO units work better and last longer with water that is softened first too.

 

[TheCleanGame]

hi, thx for the replys peeps, yeah i figure a RO fixture will do the trick... then mix 50/50 with tap water....

Umm... You've been reading hydro advice on icmag too long.

 

[GratefulOne]

The only real fix: put on a water softener. They are easy to build yourself from the same parts the guy who sells them uses. After the softener put on an RO filter. If you don't do both steps the RO membrane will die very fast as it can not handle calcium. The softener removes the calcium easily. It takes this team to do the job.

 

[milkyjoe]

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/floriculture/software/alk-calc/alk.html

 

[CannaBrix]

Hmm

Hmm

The only real fix: put on a water softener. They are easy to build yourself from the same parts the guy who sells them uses. After the softener put on an RO filter. If you don't do both steps the RO membrane will die very fast as it can not handle calcium. The softener removes the calcium easily. It takes this team to do the job.

Great idea! But why would you add something to your water, and THEN filter it out? I think just adding citric acid would get rid of the problem, why bother using the filter after that?

If I were to get an RO filter, I would use it as is, because all I want is pure water. But if I am trying to combat high alkalinity, then I should just add the acid and call it a day.

And MilkyJoe I posted that article as well, what points were you addressing?

 

[CannaBrix]

Although I suppose if you were in the business of extending the life of your filter, this could be a very useful trick. That is, if hardness from calcium degrades the membrane faster than potassium or sodium salts.

 

[milkyjoe]

Great idea! But why would you add something to your water, and THEN filter it out? I think just adding citric acid would get rid of the problem, why bother using the filter after that?

If I were to get an RO filter, I would use it as is, because all I want is pure water. But if I am trying to combat high alkalinity, then I should just add the acid and call it a day.

And MilkyJoe I posted that article as well, what points were you addressing?

You should be able to use the calculator to figure out how much acid you need to drop your alkalinty to the point it works with your nutes/media to produce a steady pH in your media. It is gonna be somewhere in the 50-75 range.

Take a look at the bill argo articles in greenhouse grower for a better explanation. But the pH of your water don't mean much compared to the alkalinity unless you are pure hydro

 

[CannaBrix]

But you can't use the calculator unless you have an alkalinity tester. Which aren't the easiest tests to find, or at least I don't know where to look. All I want to be able to do is give my plants water that won't end up holding them back.

I know very much that pH is almost null compared to alkalinity (soil grower). Alkalinity has haunted me for years, and it is just recently I realized the problem.

Now it is taking me almost as long to come up with a solution that works for me.

Looks like unless I grab an RO filter or rainwater collection system I will need an alkalinity test for my water.

Thanks for trying to spread this useful information!

 

[TheArchitect]

Acid injection is your cheapest and easiest option. Your first link describes it. Fill your res, pH down until it is stable at 4.5 and then you're good to go. Add your nutrients and test the pH, add some base back if necessary, but because the alk is gone pH is much less relevant. Anything between 5 and 7 is fine, the roots will balance the pH of the rhizosphere to their liking.


Edit: I should add that hard water nutrients might be a good option too as once you neutralize the carbonates you'll have a bunch of usable calcium and magnesium floating in the res. Hard water nutrients have less calcium and magnesium

 

[TheCleanGame]

Great idea! But why would you add something to your water, and THEN filter it out?

Personally, I would change out the R/O filter more often. Unless the costs were less by adding salt first. (Highly unlikely but possible in some situations)

I think just adding citric acid would get rid of the problem, why bother using the filter after that?

Because some of us actually like decent cannabis? You'll figure it out some day.