Guarding clone only strains

[beancounter]

ECSD was a nice 'elite', the best Ive tried from the clone only's, well it was next to the UK Cheese cut.. that was a nice smoke by all means, and Id like to grow it fer my self sometime..

My point is:
just what is it that makes an "elite", an "elite"... as the term obviously is not unform to potency, or uniquity....

Considering we can compare "nirvana" lines to some, if not may elites in terms of quality...


Hell, Id like to grow that Nirvana WW cut my buddy grew.. he also was the one who sent me the Cheese..

So If an 'Elite" is nothing more than an Avg potency, rare pheno that looks damn pretty.... why the hype? Why "elite"???

Elite, is a kinda big word if ya know what I mean...
And honestly, Ive never found an "elite" that I couldnt beat by quality from commercially available seed....

Hey Bub

Reading this post I coulda help but think how much of each grower's personal taste, and body/brain chemistry comes into play when classifying something 'elite' or special.

I am the grower Bub speaks of so I am quite familiar with the samples he speaks of regarding the Cheese and WW and this is my take on them.

I haven't touched or smoked the WW for at least 2 months, if not more. I sent it to Bub purely for something sativa, and on a whim for someone who prefers sativas. If I woulda known it was gonna be one of the faves I woulda probly sent 2-3 times as much or more.. lol

Now, the WW is hella potent, kick in the head potent with some serious head, but too racy for some. It also grows like a horse, and yeilds like a monster, and is super easy to grow. Those are the reasons I keep it around, in other words, it has good mersh potential, one of the best i've seen.. But, the finishing time is a little long to make it the perfect mersh cut, at 65-70 days. Altho I don't grow any mersh I like to keep at least one good mersh cut around, and the WW is it for now.


Potency is great, but to me, and my preferences, not what makes something elite. The way I've found it, potency is not that hard to come by, there's many 'elites', comercial seed strains, and bagseed that's plenty potent. There's also plenty of heady strains, and plenty of body strains..


To me, taste/smell holds the key to making something elite. And that's where Cheese becomes elite.

To me the WW is just a common spicyish taste that doesn't stand out in any particular way. I would go so far as to say I dislike it compared to the flavors I do like, but it's not unpleasant and far from unbearable for me. On all other counts WW is pretty much a 9-9.5 outa 10, but factor in taste and it knocks it down to a 7-7.5 for me tops, a potent high yeilder with mediocre taste.


Now the Cheese on the other hand does have alot of other good qualities besides taste. It yeilds quite heavy, grows fast, it's pretty easy to grow, clones super easy, finishes relatively fast (55-60) and has above average potency and a great 'happy high', very social, everyone likes it.

I would rate the Cheese (without taste) slightly lower overall than the WW at about 8.5-9 as a plant/potency, but factor in taste and the Cheese stays right where it is, a full point and a 1/2 higher than the WW...

The reason why i rate the way i do is because i can try 100 strains and find potency as good as the WW/cheese or better on probly 25-30% of those strains, maybe less or more, it's just a guess. But out of that same 100 strains I may only find 1-3 strains, if any at all that have the smell/flavor of Cheese.. which is almost how many strains I've tried, and only 'elite' cuts have provided the taste i'm looking for.

Bub also has some of my PG13, which i would rate higher than WW aswell, probly at 8-8.5, and Bub didn't even mention it.. 2 people, 2 dif opinions


By now i'm sure you all see what i'm saying here.. An elite to one person isn't necessarily elite to another.. Rez's thread on Sub's fave clone just proves that further to me.

just my observations.
we all have one.

And I think people should try to remember this, and not put too much weight into a single person's description, or even 10 people's description..


For example I have Blockhead phenos (not the 1 you tried Bub) from seed that I find better than:

Apollo 11, Blowfish (katsu's), Chocolate Trip, SPG (SOL's cut), Sweet Skunk (SOL's cut), KK's Strawberry Cough, AE-77 Cali-O, and a few other elites I'm forgetting.

Does that mean they're not elite to someone else tho? not at all.




As far as hording.. it's just not really true. like so many other have said, put in the time, the pics, the grows, the threads, the posts, and good vibes, and you'll soon be growing many of the ones you've drooled over in the past.

I've only been online for just over a year, and have received every single 'elite' i've grown via connections or relationships online. I have a few only a handful of other growers have grown or tried, and I only pass them to people that I am 100% confident in, ones that will not just pass on cuts to anyone that PMs, or anyone that offers cash.

The most strictly guarded one I grow is guarded because the 'inventer' of this strain does not wish to ever see $ paid to anyone to get it. They only want mj to be passed for free, so that someone doesn't just take XXXX clone and hit it with a Deep Chunk male or something and sell the seeds for $100 a pack..

Is that greedy? ego? I don't think so. is it maybe skewed idealism? maybe. regardless, i respect the wishes and understand their reasoning, and sincere motives behind asking me to be very selective on who i pass to.


I don't think anything is really horded in the canna-community, it eventualy does get passed to the 'right people' (read:honest, caring, apreciative, willing to preserve, generous, good enough grower, not in it for $, are jus some of the qualities).. Fact is that not many people fit that category, there's tons of assholes out there, and frankly i wouldnt' give an asshole anything let alone a rare clone..

I don't know if this sounds prickish or not, but if you aren't getting gifted any elites the community as a whole (it's not one person, or a inner circle) has not yet deemed you to be one of the 'right people'.

I don't mean to sound elite, and I don't think somone with elites is better, or a better person than someone without... But online this is just the way things work with 'elite' clones, and I just can't see it changing anytime soon.

And yes, bitching or begging about it will generally mean that people won't want to give them to you.


Remember, even those with a good collection of elites probly started with bagseed or store bought genetics too.. it's just a right of passage.

Patience and contributing possitively to the community are the 2 most important things IMHO.

 

[mysta177]

I DONT GET IT!!!! I dont no Anybody that hasnt shared their clones......Can you guys name these peeps that dont share???? Everybody that has these Elites do Share them.....They are just careful who they share them with.....After you guys all Put in your work and gain Peoples trust, you will evntually get acces to all These Clones as well...We also have to be careful who we give out these clones to cuz you never know Who's a Nark.....Its not like Peeps could just pass out Clones freely to everybody and anybody....The shit is Illegal and we all have to watch our own Backs....You will be surprised how much clone trading and sharing is going on.......
It took me a few years before anybody would even trust me on these Boards to trade...But after a few years of putting in work and Logging my grows it eventually paid off......I have almost everything i want...And everything I have now I have shared with peeps that i trust....But i wont just pass clones to any old Joe that asks me...I have to Know that they have been around awhile and that they Really know how to grow.......Bottom line is Pay your Dues first and then you will be rewarded...!!!

SO STOP CRYIN AND PAY YOUR DUES PEOPLE!!!!!!!

couldnt of said it better....

 

[Guest]

very well said beancounter. lots of people that come on here and dont realize you have to give to the community before you can take from it.

as far as bitching about nobody giving you a cut of a strain, come on. where's the logic in that? you want to insure the fact you will never get a cut? there are plenty of high quality genetics to be found in seeds, you dont NEED to have something just because of the hype surrounding it. take the time to run some seed grows, make friends via pm and whatnot and you will have connections before you know it.

 

[leroymmj]

When someone gifts me freely, I give away freely. When someone politely requests I don't, I respect their wishes. Concerning clone degradation, 20 some-odd years later, I'm still puffing the TrainWreck... Speaking of which, (I hope I get this right, if not, it's close and you get the point.) Years ago a person, let's call him Berserker operated a nice small town co-op and had a killer strain called Trainwreck which he grew and sold as meds with great medical properties. When he sold the co-op he requested that the strain be kept as is so that it would not lose it's medical value. He was afraid that if clones were given out willy-nilly that all hell would break loose and after awhile people wouldn't know what is what when it came to buying the meds that used to help them so. The co-op did not honor his wishes and started selling the clones. Berserker got rightfully pissed and started giving away clones as fast as he could. And after that day till this day he still does. He tried his hardest with both ways to keep the gene pool from being polluted and confusing med users. Before he sold his co-op it was also known as E-32, after he sold it, it was called the Arcata cut. There is a slight difference but I'll be damned if I know what it is. Point being, if it's good, it will stick around. But, if that is so, where is my road-kill?

 

[Guest]

Hey Bub

Reading this post I coulda help but think how much of each grower's personal taste, and body/brain chemistry comes into play when classifying something 'elite' or special.

I am the grower Bub speaks of so I am quite familiar with the samples he speaks of regarding the Cheese and WW and this is my take on them.

I haven't touched or smoked the WW for at least 2 months, if not more. I sent it to Bub purely for something sativa, and on a whim for someone who prefers sativas. If I woulda known it was gonna be one of the faves I woulda probly sent 2-3 times as much or more.. lol

Now, the WW is hella potent, kick in the head potent with some serious head, but too racy for some. It also grows like a horse, and yeilds like a monster, and is super easy to grow. Those are the reasons I keep it around, in other words, it has good mersh potential, one of the best i've seen.. But, the finishing time is a little long to make it the perfect mersh cut, at 65-70 days. Altho I don't grow any mersh I like to keep at least one good mersh cut around, and the WW is it for now.


Potency is great, but to me, and my preferences, not what makes something elite. The way I've found it, potency is not that hard to come by, there's many 'elites', comercial seed strains, and bagseed that's plenty potent. There's also plenty of heady strains, and plenty of body strains..


To me, taste/smell holds the key to making something elite. And that's where Cheese becomes elite.

To me the WW is just a common spicyish taste that doesn't stand out in any particular way. I would go so far as to say I dislike it compared to the flavors I do like, but it's not unpleasant and far from unbearable for me. On all other counts WW is pretty much a 9-9.5 outa 10, but factor in taste and it knocks it down to a 7-7.5 for me tops, a potent high yeilder with mediocre taste.


Now the Cheese on the other hand does have alot of other good qualities besides taste. It yeilds quite heavy, grows fast, it's pretty easy to grow, clones super easy, finishes relatively fast (55-60) and has above average potency and a great 'happy high', very social, everyone likes it.

I would rate the Cheese (without taste) slightly lower overall than the WW at about 8.5-9 as a plant/potency, but factor in taste and the Cheese stays right where it is, a full point and a 1/2 higher than the WW...

The reason why i rate the way i do is because i can try 100 strains and find potency as good as the WW/cheese or better on probly 25-30% of those strains, maybe less or more, it's just a guess. But out of that same 100 strains I may only find 1-3 strains, if any at all that have the smell/flavor of Cheese.. which is almost how many strains I've tried, and only 'elite' cuts have provided the taste i'm looking for.

Bub also has some of my PG13, which i would rate higher than WW aswell, probly at 8-8.5, and Bub didn't even mention it.. 2 people, 2 dif opinions


By now i'm sure you all see what i'm saying here.. An elite to one person isn't necessarily elite to another.. Rez's thread on Sub's fave clone just proves that further to me.



And I think people should try to remember this, and not put too much weight into a single person's description, or even 10 people's description..


For example I have Blockhead phenos (not the 1 you tried Bub) from seed that I find better than:

Apollo 11, Blowfish (katsu's), Chocolate Trip, SPG (SOL's cut), Sweet Skunk (SOL's cut), KK's Strawberry Cough, AE-77 Cali-O, and a few other elites I'm forgetting.

Does that mean they're not elite to someone else tho? not at all.




As far as hording.. it's just not really true. like so many other have said, put in the time, the pics, the grows, the threads, the posts, and good vibes, and you'll soon be growing many of the ones you've drooled over in the past.

I've only been online for just over a year, and have received every single 'elite' i've grown via connections or relationships online. I have a few only a handful of other growers have grown or tried, and I only pass them to people that I am 100% confident in, ones that will not just pass on cuts to anyone that PMs, or anyone that offers cash.

The most strictly guarded one I grow is guarded because the 'inventer' of this strain does not wish to ever see $ paid to anyone to get it. They only want mj to be passed for free, so that someone doesn't just take XXXX clone and hit it with a Deep Chunk male or something and sell the seeds for $100 a pack..

Is that greedy? ego? I don't think so. is it maybe skewed idealism? maybe. regardless, i respect the wishes and understand their reasoning, and sincere motives behind asking me to be very selective on who i pass to.


I don't think anything is really horded in the canna-community, it eventualy does get passed to the 'right people' (read:honest, caring, apreciative, willing to preserve, generous, good enough grower, not in it for $, are jus some of the qualities).. Fact is that not many people fit that category, there's tons of assholes out there, and frankly i wouldnt' give an asshole anything let alone a rare clone..

I don't know if this sounds prickish or not, but if you aren't getting gifted any elites the community as a whole (it's not one person, or a inner circle) has not yet deemed you to be one of the 'right people'.

I don't mean to sound elite, and I don't think somone with elites is better, or a better person than someone without... But online this is just the way things work with 'elite' clones, and I just can't see it changing anytime soon.

And yes, bitching or begging about it will generally mean that people won't want to give them to you.


Remember, even those with a good collection of elites probly started with bagseed or store bought genetics too.. it's just a right of passage.

Patience and contributing possitively to the community are the 2 most important things IMHO.

Excellent post dude, ya took the words right out of my mouth.
It's all about the smell/taste to me too, cos, like you said most everything on the market today is potent.
And having grown White Widow myself, I agree, she's a perfect example of something with MEGA potency (some of the strogest stuff I've smoked), but lacking severely in the taste deparment. I found it really boring, and only did 2 rounds with it. It was good to send ya to sleep though lol.
Oh, and back on topic, I also agree with everyone talking sense. Nobody is entitled to ANYTHING. "Elite' cuts should be earned.

 

[leroymmj]

I'm glad I read this. I changed my whole nute regiment to full-blown organic cuz I thought I was growing the WhiteWidow wrong. Very potent but not much taste. Now I know that it's not just me...

 

[hidingtree]

hey all if ya read this whole thread yay ! good stuff eh? hopefully this may shed some more light if it hasn't been shed this way .... ok so there are people who ask questions like " hey REZ by lookin at this picture can u tell if my " insert fav diesel wordage here" is the real thing ? THIS is a good reason for guarding clone onlys.... people otherwise are out there scamming other people with what they think is this or that . it may be ... or it may not . so people guard them to avoid the confused public too . hope fully that makes a good point for some it is about preserving the real thing ... so people will know it when they do get it . and "getting it " can be the relative term ... many blessings , hidingtree

 

[razerfish]

Greed is the only consistent answer one can come up with. Why the hell would you guard a cutting if you felt the cutting was a truly great specimen? Only if you're dealing or for seed $ is the only answer that there can possibly be. That's it. If you love the cannabis plant, and you aren't in it for the $, why the hell would you preclude others from having a specimen that you think is truly wonderful?

When I stopped growing a few years ago, I gave all my cuttings to my friend. No strings attached. Never thought twice about it. And I had original C99 from Bro's Grimm and original Killa Queen from BCGA, and a few others.

 

[medikush]

money is a main reason. think about it on the extreme connosuer market level. if you are the ONLY souce for a certain strain of bud, then whoever wants that particulr example has to come to you or one of your associates, and pay whtever price you are asking, since they cannot get it anywhere else. Now if someone else gets ahold of that strain and starts pumping out tables of it too, do you thnk you are going to be able to keep your monopoly on that strai very long? do you think you will still get the BIG bucks for that strain like you did, when only you had it?

I grew Blueberry and Trainwreck, took it to a club, and they told me to get lost. They said, and quote "People don't want that crap anymore, everyone is growing it."

I'm not defending it, please don't get me wrong. Just pointing out the facts. Everyone should have one strain THEY CROSSED that is theirs only. Then we will all have something special that nobody else has. And we can let the OGs, Sour Ds, and Chemdawgs loose.

Personally, for me, I have 2 strains I cannot let go of, only because they were gifted to me, and I had to make a promise to my friends. Lots of people are in this position. They were gifted something and have their reputation and integrity to keep intact.
I pass on every strain that is currently "circulating". I was gifted a Bubba, but when I found it circulating everywhere I called my friend on it, and now i'm putting it out myself. But if it were not out, I could not do that.

 

[Guest]

exactly medi .. sometimes we just ahve to keep things to ourselves and our circles of friends eventually it gets out there . but in every sense just like medi we supply rare strains to patients but the thing is the ones that we have conditions on we cannot release as for our integrity . if we were greedy we would release heirlooms for lots of money but we arent greedy so we dont...hence why things dont get out. sometimes you get stuff from friends and they say keep it between us. y would i want to screw my friend over like that i wouldnt so i keep it to my self. plain and simple no greed

 

[GirlWonderGrows]

I'd like to chime in here...
I'm amazed at how fast this thread had grown, there are clearly a lot of people very intrested in 'elite' genetics. I noticed as I was reading this long ass thread that I got the feeling of greed, my saliva was flowing, there were beautiful buds in my eyes... I can understand the feeling of impatience and anger when you're strugling to grow as well as you can, and you know that it could be better if only you had a better clone.

To me, the issue is one of benchmarks. Since we are all so isolated and what we're doing is illegal for the most part, and risky even where its 'legal', its so hard to know how good it can be. We have no way of knowing where the limits are. Maby if I had an elite clone my grow would be twice as good? Or maby only a bit better... who can say? Its the not knowing that really gets to you. (me, I mean)

For my part I think I've got a pretty sweet cut, finishes in 45 days and looks like beauty, smokes even better. A real happy high. I don't think its an elite, buds its darn good. It came from a seed pack out of BC, and was the only one to survive the harsh treatment of a friends friend. Which turns out to be a very lucky selective technique, this is a wonderful plant for first time med growers. It can withstand a lot of abuse and still produces great medicine fast. This gets them what they need sooner, helps with teh learning curve, and raises their spirits, maby the best part of all. makes people feel good.

And thats the idea, isn't it?

For my part, I'm just going to wait and eventualy I'll probably get to try out some great new stuff. I don't think any of it can be 2x as good as what I have, but I still would like to know. And I'm getting a little bored of my standbys, truth be known.

Anyway, beancounter, I wanted to say, thank you for such a great post.

If this were legal we'd all be smoking the best (or we'd be smoking marlboro brand J's, then we'd be back in the same position again). It reminds me of apples. Anyone read botany of desire? Great book, and explains alot of how genetics work. In a larger sense we all belong to the earth and will return to it. In the mean time grow the best you can with love and honesty and we'll all do good.
GWG

 

[HuffAndPuff]

Gifted TrainWreck, Ordained by the Cosmos

Gifted TrainWreck, Ordained by the Cosmos

Its funny... I had been reading alot about Trainwreck and wanted to give her a run. I hadn't thought much about how to get ahold of a cut, but figured it'd be a long ass time before I did. I've done nothing to earn my social capital here (yet) and 99% of my 'real world' friends don't know I grow. Oh, and I'm on the East Coast.

A few weeks later I went to Burlington, VT to visit some friends. We went out and got WAHSTED. At some point, I split up with them and wound up with a group of friends-of-friends.

Finally, we all end up at this dude's place to smoke the nightcap. As the discussion turns to weed, dude says- "my brother LOVES growing weed and he gave me some clones of something called Trainwreck. He said give them to whoever grows and tell them the same. Want any?"

Goosebumps. Such a cosmic marijuana coincidence. I left with promises to return with finished product, respect the wishes to gift, and a healthy baby girl (occasionally gender-confused). This was about 8 months ago.

Over New Year's I went back with some wreck to gift and blaze. I was playing beirut at the big bash talking to my friend about where I might find this kid again. He tells me to look to my right- and there the man is, playing at the table next to mine, same side.

Turns out everyone he gave the clones to managed to kill them. So I'm going to bring the kid up a few little girls, a clone dome, and a copy of the grow bible. I want him to honor my request to do the same. You can at least lead the horse to water, ya know?

So it seems to me that in order for a strain, elite or otherwise, to survive there has to be a compromise in how it is gifted. Give to all and with no strings attached and everything might be lost. Hoard the shit out of 'em and you're gonna have the same result.

I say, give them to those who know how to grow, and most importantly LOVE this sacred plant. Shit, if I knew someone very well that loved it and now wanted to grow their first time, I'd hit em up with something.

Oh and the wreck- yes it's real deal Arcata cut. I have to say, IMHO it is overrated hype. She is def. unique and exhibits some interesting traits but I don't like her at all. The whole murdered whale cover-up with pledge smell is just not for me. After getting her wired with a few runs I do like the staiva up w/ short flowering time, but I'm only gonna flower her like every 3rd cycle.

HAP

 

[cannigrow]

hey all if ya read this whole thread yay ! good stuff eh? hopefully this may shed some more light if it hasn't been shed this way .... ok so there are people who ask questions like " hey REZ by lookin at this picture can u tell if my " insert fav diesel wordage here" is the real thing ? THIS is a good reason for guarding clone onlys.... people otherwise are out there scamming other people with what they think is this or that . it may be ... or it may not . so people guard them to avoid the confused public too . hope fully that makes a good point for some it is about preserving the real thing ... so people will know it when they do get it . and "getting it " can be the relative term ... many blessings , hidingtree

Good call Hidingtree. I never meant to start a crazy flame war or anything, and haven't read through this whole thread. I think it all comes down to preseving something that you don't want to see proliferated in half-assed fashion. Sometimes it's a simple matter of the nature of growing; we don't go advertising what we have to trade publicly, so by virtue of that, they stay hidden, or held in groups. It's not like you can go to the farmers market and pick up a cut. Naturally, some people are greedy, and want to capitalize on that.

Good things come to those who wait silently, putting time and effort into helping others. Just keep at it, and you'll get what you're looking for. Sprout some seeds in the meantime and you might find something even better.

Oh ya, and like OG BUb said earlier. "Elite" clones aren't always the most potent, heart pounding varieties. In fact, a lot of them aren't that good; honestly, Elvis comes to mind. It's ok...but hype. Elite is more about the availability.

 

[Guest]

Oh and the wreck- yes it's real deal Arcata cut. I have to say, IMHO it is overrated hype. She is def. unique and exhibits some interesting traits but I don't like her at all. The whole murdered whale cover-up with pledge smell is just not for me. After getting her wired with a few runs I do like the staiva up w/ short flowering time, but I'm only gonna flower her like every 3rd cycle.
HAP

just because you dont like her doesnt mean she's "overrated hype." she is, as you said, a very unique plant that is better for some people's tastes than others. she's not my favorite, and im a sativa-addict, but i can understand why there is so much hype around her.

 

[BeAn]

just because you dont like her doesnt mean she's "overrated hype." she is, as you said, a very unique plant that is better for some people's tastes than others. she's not my favorite, and im a sativa-addict, but i can understand why there is so much hype around her.

Everyone likes thier eggs differently, right?

Also its human nature to keep to yourself what you hold dear...only sharing with the circles you run in, thus not throwing Elite clones around like a few seeds...but sharing them with only the people you hold dear.
Like the dudes that Subcool used to roll with, he crosses the Apollo13 and releases it to the guys like us(they get pissed, yada yada..). Whoever was in that circle including Sub has the Apollo cut, so its not like nobody shares thier Elites. Its just the dudes not in the circle, dont have it...because its not what you know, its who you know.

Just my £0.02...it made sense in my head, but i dont know about you guy's though.

Keep it green!!

 

[mowood3479]

The op's logic sucks.
People keep clones close because if they hand them out to everyone they know then their own herb wont b worth as much or go as fast.
Ya, it sucks. But this is capatalism.
Money.. Money.. Money..
Im not making a judgement either way, people are gonna do what they are gonna do.. What does condemning their behaviour do?
Also, where do people get this idea that anyone owes or is obligated to give them anything? I missed that memo

 

[maryjaneismyfre]

So true..not wrong to hoard taking that logic, just a part of living in the dog eat dog world. It's just better to share.


I've lost some of my favorite plants over the years. Some I shared and some, unfortunately, I didn't. I've had a bunch of 'elites' over the years and some individuals from my crosses that wiped those off the table. There is still quite a few that I really miss... If you were doing it commercially if your entire grow, containing the only mothers that exist of your special strain, went down... it would be a big blow.

 

[G.Goo]

Guarding any RETAIL cut or strain says only one thing about u "POT SNOB SELFISH MOFO" I share everything I get for the simple reason. Ya never know whats going to happen. May all snobs lose every cut they own and cherish so much . I keep cuts in others hands due to the fact Ill never lose any mother I own . With all that said the best buds for me has came from Personal made hybrids of ppl here on IC mag and the bay . Most the time 10x better then 90% of retail seed u buy. OG and chem is so over rated imo . This is from someone who resides in cali.