Growroom Electricity and Wiring

[rives]

Either gauge should work with no problem, but only SO cord is rated for 600v. 300v cord is SJ, but I would stick with a 600v rated insulation. Splicing in a metal box will work fine if you have good strain relief for the cords going into the box, and ground the box when you make the connections.

I haven't used an electronic ballast, but you are getting quite a ways out there for a standard ignitor on a magnetic ballast.

 

[sunset limited]

sunset limited,

thanks for that! exactly what I was looking for.. and more! And it confirmed my calculations weren't as far off as I thought. the 80% rule I had not taken into account (d0h!), which was great to note.. and the 100ft+ voltage drop was a great reminder as well! I'll get my head around this stuff one of these days..

thx again!

no worries.
it's just nice to get the drop on rives every once in awhile.
old boy is quick.

 

[Normlfightr]

Either gauge should work with no problem, but only SO cord is rated for 600v. 300v cord is SJ, but I would stick with a 600v rated insulation. Splicing in a metal box will work fine if you have good strain relief for the cords going into the box, and ground the box when you make the connections.

I haven't used an electronic ballast, but you are getting quite a ways out there for a standard ignitor on a magnetic ballast.

thanks!

 

[Justsilent]

Hello fellow growers I'm in the process of setting up my grow. As of now it's fairly simple up until I got to the electrical part. My electrical equipment is as follows
1 600w 240v lumatek 1. 8" vortex 1. 6"vortex 2 mag 3drive pumps and a 4 ' 4 bulb t5
My question is how to supply enough juice without overloading anything. I have a 10/2 w ground double pole 30 amp dryer outlet coming from main pannel. One 20amp circuit in the room. My first thought was Installing new line 6/3 w ground 60 amp feeding off my 100amp main feeding into a pannel board ( sub panel) approx 50 ft away. Then running 15 amp 240v outle to room. Problem with that is I'm not sure if I'm legally able to instal this myself. To code. I'm physically capable of doing it but need it to be legit In case of any fire the insurance won't see that as a way out. Do I need a permit? Can a non electrician get a permit?

Second idea is to instal a mini 30 amp pannel board instead of old dryer receptical and run 2 15 amp recepticals from that. Problem there is I'm missing a neutral wire. The receptical only has 2 hots and ground.

3rd idea is to splice the dryer circuit in the attic put a j box pig tail a new receptical to that so 3 black (hot) 3 white (hot) and all ground together pigtailed to a grounded wire to the j box. Is that legal? Up to code? Can I plug in a 600 240v ballast into a 30 amp receptical?

Please can someone who is qualified in the field help as to what I should do?

 

[rives]

It looks to me like the only 240v equipment that you have is a single 600w light, so you have less than 3 amps of 240v.

For 120v load, you haven't listed amperage/wattage, but I would doubt that the fans pull more than 2 amps each, the Mag drive pumps are .7 amps each, and the T5 is probably right at 2 amps. This all adds up to 7.5 amps of 120v.

Let's deal with the 120v circuit first - you would need to check and see if the existing circuit is dedicated to that room, but if it isn't carrying any other load, it will handle your 120v equipment fine.

For the 240v circuit, if the dryer receptacle is close by, the easiest thing would be to change the receptacle out to a 6-15R (240v, 15a), and change the breaker to a 15 amp unit. You could also get a dryer pigtail and feed a small 240v sup-panel with it, set a 15a breaker in it and feed a 6-15R receptacle.

Your splicing idea in the attic is illegal and dangerous. The circuit protection (the breaker) needs to be the lightest-rated component in the circuit. I haven't used a Lumatek ballast, but I doubt that it is fed with a cord/plug that is rated for more than 15 amps. Homeowners can usually get permits, I suppose that it varies by location. If you are a renter, than no, you would not be able to get a permit.

 

[Justsilent]

equipment is at 7 amps exactly. Circuit is shared by 2 100w exterior bulbs 2. 35w ceiling light fixtures t12 shop light pulling 1. Amp and 4 recepticals which I would put blank plates on so nothing gets plugged in. I correct myself the circuit is on a 15 amp breaker. There's also another receptical in the room on another circuit that's shared with master bedroom in case I'm a little short.

For the 240v circuit, if the dryer receptacle is close by, the easiest thing would be to change the receptacle out to a 6-15R (240v, 15a), and change the breaker to a 15 amp unit. You could also get a dryer pigtail and feed a small 240v sup-panel with it, set a 15a breaker in it and feed a 6-15R receptacle. the dryer outlet is about 5 feet away and two walls. Dryer outlet is not in use that's why I suggested splicing to conserve the dryer outlet. Can put blank plate over it if it would make it legal. Can I eliminate the dryer receptical and extend that circuit up into the attic and down into the room? I could legally plug a subpannel to the dryer outlet with 2. 15 amp breakers? Even without the presence of a neutral wire?

Your splicing idea in the attic is illegal and dangerous. The circuit protection (the breaker) needs to be the lightest-rated component in the circuit. I haven't used a Lumatek ballast, but I doubt that it is fed with a cord/plug that is rated for more than 15 amps. Homeowners can usually get permits, I suppose that it varies by location. If you are a renter, than no, you would not be able to get a permit.[/QUOTE]
the reason for a subpanel is because of future expansion plus my garage circuit is shared with part of the house and I need more power in there anyways. I am located in California and interested in taking this method if I could do it legally
Thanks for ur help. Highly appreciated.

 

[rives]

Still sounds like you are fine on the 120v circuit. Keep in mind the 80% rule - you are limited to 80% of the breaker rating for continuous loads, which are defined as a load of over 3 hours duration. Non-continuous loads can bump up to the full breaker rating.

Yes, you could re-direct the wire from the dryer receptacle. When I suggested the sub-panel, I was talking about using it for 240v only - there is no need for a neutral. The neutral is only used on 120v circuits, or a split 120/240v circuit where both voltages are used (usually the 120v is for controls in the equipment). If you want the sub-panel capable of 120/240, then yes, you would need a neutral wire.

Building permits are done under county and city governance. I know of at least one community in California that you have to be a licensed contractor to do electrical work, but most places it is legal for a home-owner to do it.

 

[Justsilent]

Thank you. For now I think I'm just going to redirect the existing line to the room. What is the correct way to do this up to code? At the receptical box pigtail a new 10/2 w ground wire run it back up to attic bring down in room and install new receptical? How can I safely connect my ballast to this receptical with a timer leaving a free receptical for the addition at a 240 v ac later on in summer? Or is this where the 240v only subpanel come In play?

 

[rives]

Thank you. For now I think I'm just going to redirect the existing line to the room. What is the correct way to do this up to code? At the receptical box pigtail a new 10/2 w ground wire run it back up to attic bring down in room and install new receptical? How can I safely connect my ballast to this receptical with a timer leaving a free receptical for the addition at a 240 v ac later on in summer? Or is this where the 240v only subpanel come In play?

Yes, you can remove the receptacle and splice the wires in there. Leave a ground connection to the box if it is metal. You can set a 2-gang box in the destination room, and put a pair of 6-15R receptacles in it. Make sure that you change the breaker to a 15a double-pole breaker. I have only seen a couple of models of plug-in timers that are available in 240v, but they do exist. Make sure that the timer doesn't cover your access to the second receptacle - depending on how wide the timer is, you might be better off with 2 separate boxes for the receptacles and just daisy-chain your wire from one to the other.

A better choice for your timer would be an Intermatic T-104. They are intended for water heater usage, and bulletproof. They are also 240v - you could build a cord with a 6-15P plug on it to power the timer with so that you could just plug the timer into the wall, and then build another cord with a 6-15R connector body for the ballast to plug into. The T-104s are motor driven, not digital, so the timing is a little coarse by comparison but they will outlast a couple of dozen electronic timers and work great with ballasts.

 

[Justsilent]

Can I make some type of DIY power box protected by 2. 15 a breakers running to individual receptacles? Also some sort of trigger cable hooked to 120vtimer?wouldnt this be safer?

 

[rives]

Can I make some type of DIY power box protected by 2. 15 a breakers running to individual receptacles? Also some sort of trigger cable hooked to 120vtimer?wouldnt this be safer?

Yes, you could do it that way. It wouldn't be any safer than the Intermatic method if the breaker feeding it is sized correctly. You could easily do a cord-fed sub-panel as we discussed earlier, feed it with 30a and break out from there with some 15a breakers. To use a digital, 120v timer and trigger cable, you would also need a power relay between the breakers and the receptacles to switch the power. In order to comply with code, the power relays cannot be mounted inside the sub-panel enclosure - they need to be in their own box, and then feed out to the receptacles.

 

[Justsilent]

after reading a few more pages i realized that what in suggesting is what u suggested first.
mini 30 amp sub pannel 240 v only. what is the difference between main lug panel and the other more expensive panels? then i would feed 2. 15 amp circuits to 2 recepticals one would be for the light which leads me to my next ? what is the purpose of the power box? having a 120 v trigger and all for a timer to cut off power to ballast vs the 240 v timer that you suggested?
one more question where would be a good place for said panel? next to dryer outlet in laundary room or in destination room. can i do this without a permit?

 

[Justsilent]

I apologize I didn't see ur post. But I like your idea. 30 amp breaker box. Would you be able to help me with a shopping list?
30 amp panel ( can I oversize this say 60amp panel but only draw the 2 15 amp. Reason being I want to eventually add a sub panel in garage with updated 6/3 feeder from main panel then do my 240 run to room from there. For now Thoe it's a 10/2 30amp line.)
So subpanel
10/2 romex if installed in destination room
Dryer cord ( would it be the same to hard wire the panel)
2. 15 amp double pole breakers
What size wire for those runs? 12/2?
2 240v 15 a recepticals
What would I need for that 120 v relay trigger cable?

 

[rives]

I apologize I didn't see ur post. But I like your idea. 30 amp breaker box. Would you be able to help me with a shopping list?
30 amp panel ( can I oversize this say 60amp panel but only draw the 2 15 amp. Reason being I want to eventually add a sub panel in garage with updated 6/3 feeder from main panel then do my 240 run to room from there. For now Thoe it's a 10/2 30amp line.)
So subpanel
10/2 romex if installed in destination room
Dryer cord ( would it be the same to hard wire the panel)
2. 15 amp double pole breakers
What size wire for those runs? 12/2?
2 240v 15 a recepticals
What would I need for that 120 v relay trigger cable?

A main-lug only panel only has connections (lugs) for the incoming wire instead of a main breaker. I wouldn't bother to oversize it, it's doubtful that it will work for what you want in the future and I think that you can find them at Home Depot for about $20.

If you keep the sub-panel on a piece of plywood or something so that it is portable, and plugs into your newly-moved drier outlet via a cord, then there is no need for a permit or inspection on the panel - it is a portable piece of equipment, not part of the house wiring. It's likely that your municipality would require a permit and inspection for moving the receptacle, you would have to check. 15a circuits only require #14 wire, but personally I never run any power wiring less than #12. Your choice.

The trigger cord can be almost anything with a plug on it - the only thing that it is going to power is the power relay that will turn on the lights. If you have an old 16/3 extension cord, or even an old computer power cord, they will work fine. If the equipment is kept portable, I would just go ahead and stick the power relay in the sub-panel if there is room. If it is to be inspected, the relay(s) need to be in a separate enclosure, so you would have a sub-panel, the relay enclosure, and the boxes for your receptacles all mounted on a board or something, and hooked together with offset nipples.

 

[Justsilent]

In order to keep everything to code without permits then I would go with the old location of the dryer receptical. Would the subpannel create heat? Can I stuff it in a cabinet and just wire the circuits to destination room in order to conceal and people won't wonder why is there a board with all these wires to it. Would this still be considered portable? Even thought exiting circuits from sub pannel would enter attic and back down to destination room. And place said power relay in room then to ballast. Which kind of relay would I need? Where can I find em?

 

[rives]

In order to keep everything to code without permits then I would go with the old location of the dryer receptical. Would the subpannel create heat? Can I stuff it in a cabinet and just wire the circuits to destination room in order to conceal and people won't wonder why is there a board with all these wires to it. Would this still be considered portable? Even thought exiting circuits from sub pannel would enter attic and back down to destination room. And place said power relay in room then to ballast. Which kind of relay would I need? Where can I find em?

If the sub-panel is creating heat, there is a problem. It is not up to code to take cord through walls, ceilings, or whatever. When you start these, the cord is susceptible to damage and is getting away from the concept of not being part of the house wiring.

http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp This is close to what I'm talking about, but with a sub-panel installed before the relay can.

DPDT relay - perhaps a little more flexible for future use because of the NC contacts - http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Relays_-z-_Timers/Electro-Mechanical_Relays/Power_Relays,_Open-Style,_40A_%28AD-PR40_Series%29/AD-PR40-2C-120A

DPST relay - only has open contacts, is a couple of bucks cheaper. http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...n-Style,_40A_(AD-PR40_Series)/AD-PR40-2A-120A

 

[Justsilent]

What would u suggest? The outlet is 5 feet away from room. Laundry room and destination room share a wall but outlet is on other side of laundary room. How would u wire this if u were in my situation? What would be the least or most minor code violation if I can't get away without breaking any?

 

[rives]

What would u suggest? The outlet is 5 feet away from room. Laundry room and destination room share a wall but outlet is on other side of laundary room. How would u wire this if u were in my situation? What would be the least or most minor code violation if I can't get away without breaking any?

Can you set a box on the destination room wall adjacent to the receptacle in the laundry room, and just swing the wire over from one box to the other or splice in the existing box and feed the new box with a short piece of wire? If that isn't workable, then I would do as you said earlier and splice in the existing box and run some 10/2 w/ground to wherever you want the new receptacle. If you can roughly back-to-back the boxes, then it would be simple to put back later if necessary. Once it is installed (if you do it properly) then no one should be the wiser - there should be no code violations, just a "forgotten" building permit.

Are you renting this place, or the owner? If you are renting, then the landlord will certainly think that something's up when the dryer receptacle comes up missing!

 

[Justsilent]

If I were to move outlet to adjacent wall ( one shared with room) I would have to splice new piece of 10/2 to make it reach. So I could technically move the location of the receptical within the laundary room without a building permit but can't extend it to a different location? To instal a dedicated 240v outlet for say a welder would need to be done with a permit? Either way whichever road I take it includes the mini 30 amp panel.
I would be able to find said power relay at local radio shack or lowes or the like? Also any 15 amp double pole breaker tht fits panel will do? When splicing new 10/2 at old dryer receptical the 2 grounds go together pig tailed to a ground wire to metal box then up attic following existing wire. I don't need to break the dry wall to secure the wire to stud do I? Then from the attic down the wall shared by room and laundary room. Does this 10/2 wire need to be in conduit or protected some how or can it be laying on the attic floor like the rest of the house wiring? From there put 30 amp 240v receptical in room wall ( putting one on the laundary room side would depend on whether its necessary. Meaning having done the spicing and relocation hasnt broke any codes or violations then I would install one but if its already a violation then no purpose for it. And yes I own my home.


Panel. http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay...gId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

Breaker http://www.lowes.com/pd_13177-296-H...tURL=?Ntt=15+a+double+pole+breaker&facetInfo=

12/2 wire for 15 amp runs http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...6-_-12;100684019-_-100684022-_-N#.UQauVVy9LCQ
2. 15 amp 240 v receptacles would like normal 240 v outlets that go in j box with cover
Dryer outlet. 10 gauge or 8 gauge?
Any fittings for running wires to/ from subapnel?
Again I thank u for all ur help

 

[rives]

If I were to move outlet to adjacent wall ( one shared with room) I would have to splice new piece of 10/2 to make it reach. So I could technically move the location of the receptical within the laundary room without a building permit but can't extend it to a different location? To instal a dedicated 240v outlet for say a welder would need to be done with a permit? Either way whichever road I take it includes the mini 30 amp panel.
I would be able to find said power relay at local radio shack or lowes or the like? Also any 15 amp double pole breaker tht fits panel will do? When splicing new 10/2 at old dryer receptical the 2 grounds go together pig tailed to a ground wire to metal box then up attic following existing wire. I don't need to break the dry wall to secure the wire to stud do I? Then from the attic down the wall shared by room and laundary room. Does this 10/2 wire need to be in conduit or protected some how or can it be laying on the attic floor like the rest of the house wiring? From there put 30 amp 240v receptical in room wall ( putting one on the laundary room side would depend on whether its necessary. Meaning having done the spicing and relocation hasnt broke any codes or violations then I would install one but if its already a violation then no purpose for it. And yes I own my home.

I don't know the specifics of whether or not you need a building permit. Some places base the requirement on the cost of the job (anything exceeding "X" dollars requires one), some places it is for anything within a specific category, etc. I have no idea if Radio Shack carries power relays and the panel should specify what breakers are "listed" for use in it. Wiring is supposed to be secured within 6" of the box and intermittently after that, but it is common practice to skip that on a re-model when fishing wire into an existing wall. The wire can go with the rest of the existing wiring,

Unless you have a very old house, there should be fire-blocking in the walls. These are horizontal pieces between the studs that keep the wall cavity from working like a chimney in case of fire. If you have the blocking, the wall is going to have to be opened up in order to make holes for the wire to go through.