Grams-Per-Watt is an erroneous measure of productivity

[Homer Nixon]

I agree with you and secondtry 100%. But everyone on here seems to only use G/W which does not factor in time and I was just trying to correct that with G/KWH.

So yes, G/KWH/SqFt or G/KWH/CubicFt would certainly paint of clearer picture of productivity than G/KWH alone.

Thanks for the comment!

what about grams per square foot per month?

I'm not sure why electricity has to factor into at all. Like I said, for most growers, square footage per month is a much bigger bill than wattage per month.

And than some people stack multiple vertical lamps into the same space as others would have only one of the same wattage hung horizontally, but both of their power bills are still lower than their monthly rent or mortgage + property tax.

And than of course, what about the growers with paid off mortgages? Man this is getting I'm confusing. I'm taking off.

Isn't it funny how in the U.S. (I'm assuming you are an American too), we mix the metric system along with the English system?

 

[love?]

If it needs anything then it is in error; it's erroneous.

It's erroneous if the data is wrong, not if it's missing. And it's not missing if you just... well just write it next to the g/W figure.

Knowing info about veg and flowering times is essential anyway... and when I know those I can figure out whether or not the productivity is up to my standards very easily with the g/W... yeah time needs to be taken into account but I can do that, even by calculating an exact figure if needed (and hey it's just for rough estimation purposes so we don't need exact figures anyway).

At least for me it's much easier to comprehend the whole thing in my head in terms of "how many grams would it yield in one run" than "what's the g/kWh/SqFt" can you understand this? This is the benefit of g/W and why it's so popular...

Yes, your way that directly takes time into account is one way of measuring productivity and it's a good one for some purposes but it's not the only way

Sorry my text is probably a bit messy right now.

 

[StealthyStalks]

what about grams per square foot per month?

I'm not sure why electricity has to factor into at all. Like I said, for most growers, square footage per month is a much bigger bill than wattage per month.

And than some people stack multiple vertical lamps into the same space as others would have only one of the same wattage hung horizontally, but both of their power bills are still lower than their monthly rent or mortgage + property tax.

And than of course, what about the growers with paid off mortgages? Man this is getting I'm confusing. I'm taking off.

Isn't it funny how in the U.S. (I'm assuming you are an American too), we mix the metric system along with the English system?

I'm not agruing with you. Grams/sqft/month would be great and give a much clearer picture of productivity than G/W which doesn't factor in time. G/W is like just saying grams/sqft without including per month; it doesn't factor in the time.

 

[globel]

sqft is not a good measurement of how well you did. because sqft can be free to sum people, or you use extra space witch would otherwise be used for nothing. Electricity on the other hand cost every one money and you can't get around it legally.

 

[StealthyStalks]

It's erroneous if the data is wrong, not if it's missing. And it's not missing if you just... well just write it next to the g/W figure.

I agree with you 100% But the problem is most on here don't give a time frame when they give their gram/watt figure. They just say something like: "wow I almost hit one gram per watt this time!"

But you are correct. If somebody says "I got 1 gram per watt by vegging them for 23 days under a 400w MH 18/6 and flowering them for 60 days under a 600w HPS 12/12", then there would be no need to express the figure in G/KWH.

 

[StealthyStalks]

sqft is not a good measurement of how well you did. because sqft can be free to sum people, or you use extra space witch would otherwise be used for nothing. Electricity on the other hand cost every one money and you can't get around it legally.

I would rather use energy input as my yardstick too, which is why I like G/KWH. But the earlier poster suggested Grams/SqFt/Month and that gives a better idea of productivity than G/W because it includes time. The best of both worlds would be G/SqFt/KWH.

 

[superultramega]

And I have to deal with engineers like you all the time who can't see the forest for the trees. Just like you are doing now.

I'm not the one who keeps using grams/watt as an all encompassing measure of productivity; everyone elses on here does that and I am just trying show how erronious it is. Unless they include the number of cycles at 18/6 and 12/12 (or whatever cycles they use) the grams/watt tells us nothing when it comes to productivity. If you are really an engineer I would think you would understand that.

Productivity is a measure of output from a production process, per unit of input. How is watt a unit of input? Please tell, I want to know? Watt Hour is a unit of input!

If the folks on here are going to use grams/watt as a way of showing their "green thumb" then they need to include how many light cycles and the durations of those cycles were used to acheive the gram/watt figure. If they don't include the amount of time the lights are on for a specific wattage then saying "I got this many grams-per-watt" tells me nothing. Why go through all that when Grams/KWH factors in the time already?

And you are really an engineer?????

Of course there are all sorts of things that could and should be factored in when trying to calculate productivity. DUH! But the fact is on these forums people just want to use harvest and light size to show a down a dirty measure of productivity. So IF they are going to use light size THEN they need to give enough information for Grams/watt to make any sense. Grams/watt says nothing other than you used this big of light and got this much, it tells us nothing of how productive the method they used was. Did they do it in 10 weeks? 20 weeks? 30? It says nothing!

way to miss my point entirely.

 

[Homer Nixon]

sqft is not a good measurement of how well you did. because sqft can be free to sum people, or you use extra space witch would otherwise be used for nothing. Electricity on the other hand cost every one money and you can't get around it legally.

As I said, space is the largest monthly expense for most growers.

This is especially true for the huge majority that is not doing it legally. If you're medical or otherwise legal than who cares about using the spare room for a grow?

You're correct, that for the lucky few who live rent free, it's not an expense at all.

And again, larger commercial growers will run into situation in which they pay more for electricity per month than for rent or mortgage.

 

[MeanBean]

I think it's funny that these big time commercial growers think there the shit, and snub the idea of tracking electric. Yet if mj becomes widly legal, your a gonner bye bye big money, go get a job Marlboro has the commercial power to squash your lil op...

People like that have no idea of what tight squeaky clean business practices us legal biz owners operate on.

You would be a fool not to track your electric use in GPKWH.

 

[StealthyStalks]

I think it's funny that these big time commercial growers think there the shit, and snub the idea of tracking electric. Yet if mj becomes widly legal, your a gonner bye bye big money, go get a job Marlboro has the commercial power to squash your lil op...

People like that have no idea of what tight squeaky clean business practices us legal biz owners operate on.

You would be a fool not to track your electric use in GPKWH.

I agree! But not all the commercial growers are condescending pricks; toohighmf comes to mind when I think of some of the good guys who know their shit. There are others I'm sure, I just haven't been on here long enough to know who is who yet.

 

[MeanBean]

But not all the commercial growers are condescending pricks.

correction: some big time commerical growers!

If I was making my living off it I wouldnt want it to be legal I know that.. I'd be getting ready for battle right now. You better forget your quantity and go ALLLLLLLL quality for the big time cig co's are gonna be all over this, at least as a sister company or something. They will make the quick mid grade shit for extremly cheap. 5 bucks for 20 joints.. when it's legal it doesnt cost anymore to grow than fine tabbacco. think of what that's going to do to the current mj prices? Slash em.. even the good stuff.

So now you may have to consider growing those harder to grow longer 10- 12 week strains to even hold on to a corner of the market "premiums" - aka the Cigar. All that adds up to more costs lest profit.

Jumping into that market with one hand over your eyes and your dick in the other is a good way to end up Out Of Business...

Stark growing coca plants hahaha...

 

[superultramega]

You would be a fool not to track your electric use in GPKWH.

You'd equally be a fool to ONLY track g/kWh.

But of course, that has nothing to do with g/W. Neither would do you any good on a balance sheet.
g/W has nothing to do with profitability. It simply gauges what one grower is able to do with a specific energy source. It is a rule of thumb to track your crude efficiency against others in an activity that precludes seeing other grows and directly talking with others involved. The only problem I see here is people who think the number has more meaning than it does. g/kWh does little to improve G/W as most people include their veg and flower times with the number (or they should).
Again, it is a complicating inclusion in a simple metric that does little to detail the parameters. I see no use for it.

 

[globel]

veg time is not a factor for me when calculating how much a harvest cost me to produce. I have 1 month + veged plants waiting on hand all the time. Space maybe... but I am using usually spare space or UNUSED space so I don't calculate it as a business expense right now.

The only things that cost me money now are electricity, nutrients, and medium. These are my only reacquiring expenses.

 

[MeanBean]

veg time is not a factor for me when calculating how much a harvest cost me to produce.

Yeah I don't think my system uses electric when I am vegging ethier.

 

[globel]

I count the elec for my veg in my total elec for the grow... and only a few of my location veg.. the others just get plants delevard..

This is just the way I figure it because right now I dont get to grow for my self and I have to keep pretty accurate books. And I have to show profit margins etc.

Most of the people I grow for know jack sh*t about veg, flower flip, etc all they care about is how much $ sh*t cost's in the end.

Heck one of my locations is the back of a cannabis club and I have the Most difficult way of figuring my profit from it. 10% off the bottem of all sales of bud.. So that's after power and neutes/medium. (they sell a lb for around 6k in small bits) And I get 10% off the top for every clone out the door. at 20$ each I get 2$ a clone. Any time I want to change neuts or anything in the room I have to go threw a approval process.. =(

 

[MeanBean]

Who cares really if you use an extra watt here or there....
It's not like we're growing tomatoes.

It will be EXACTLY like we're growing tomatoes if it's legalized...

 

[BlindDate]

Tracking grams per KWH?????? What for? If growing were legal anyone would be a fool to grow indoors under lights. How many indoor tomato gardens have you ever seen?

 

[MeanBean]

O I forgot we all live in a tropical enviroment!! oops!!

If it was and I could, thad be nice though!

 

[superultramega]

Tracking grams per KWH?????? What for? If growing were legal anyone would be a fool to grow indoors under lights. How many indoor tomato gardens have you ever seen?

A lot. In fact, probably every tomato you buy from a grocery store. Field grown tomatoes go into tomato sauces. Whole tomatoes come from indoor grow rooms in most of the world.

 

[Cat Jockey]

Okay, I have read through the first 6, and didn't see much variance in discussion, so I assuming I wouldn't have read what I am going to if I kept going.

Original poster is correct IMO concerning gpw not really a measure of garden efficeincy versus watt bought. I've never looked at it that way though.

To me gpw is a measure of grower knowledge and less about garden efficiency. It is a finally yield to shoot for and once you reach that mark, one can feel they have gotten a good handle on growing da digity dank, whatever their growing style, plant count per watt and and veg times.

I think Dongle69 was on the mark when s/he mentioned profit. In, profit margin is the biggest concern. Issues like g/kWH are a piece of the puzzle to maximize that profit margin, but only a piece.

I am putting together a greenhouse operation with supplemental lighting and I am crunching numbers and let me tell you guys, gpw or g/kWH aren't even in the mix for considering things right now. 6 months after operations begin will I worry about ways to make my electricity bill cheaper without costing yield, or ways to buy mor electricity to increase yield.

Right now, however the only valid measure for me to evaluate is lbs./12 months or lbs./month, from x amount of plants etc. And the biggest limiting factor in that is plant count.

Harvest weight per time period, regardless of electricity spent. I'm anal, and I will maximize use of electricity very shortly after getting rolling, but the efficiency of my electrical investment is such minor potatoes right now in cost that being inefficient with electricity in my situation as it stands has a very minor roll in affecting the yearly profit margin for the business. Nor is electricity the number one issue affecting yield and quality for me.

For those poo-pooing people keeping track of the details like this talking about how 'real' growers don't pay attention to this, don't care about that, etc., well, there are lots of different real growers.

I was every bit the real grower several years ago when I was sitting on a two digit bonsai mum count, 600W 3-4 plant flower room as I am now in a bigger op as I will be in the huge op I am planning.

And all of those little details will add up and will be the difference between the 4 digit plant count MMJ ops that close their doors within a year or two and those that McDonalds with the shit and franchise to all the other med states, employing a whole bunch 'o people across the nation, paying all kinds of taxes and making the principle investors very, very rich. Providing the g-men don't nab ya first.