Y
yamaha_1fan
PharmaCan said:
I just suggested the same brand as it may fit in the box easier with existing holes etc. But a grounding bar is a grounding bar
got one wireing ? new subpannel
- Thread starter Dr. G
- Start date
I just suggested the same brand as it may fit in the box easier with existing holes etc. But a grounding bar is a grounding bar
Dr. G
Active member
theres a 5$ tester that you plug intot he outlet to see if if works correctally
im the very dangerous idiot but non of you have heard of this 5$ devise lol
im just playing around
its just so lame that people dont ask ?s prolly have never ever wired a sub pannel and just credit me and crazy lol
im the very dangerous idiot but non of you have heard of this 5$ devise lol
im just playing around
its just so lame that people dont ask ?s prolly have never ever wired a sub pannel and just credit me and crazy lol
Dr. G
Active member
okre wired the outlets with 12 gauge
forgotthe caps so i electric taped the shit outa the holes making sure no sharp spots
i dont have my cap lighting extention yet but i need to hookthisup so i took out the 240 breaker for now till later this week
installed a ground bar uphigh cuz there was no other room just had to drill it right through the metal box
and yes i know the ground bar screw is falling out ill be putting in longer ones later
forgotthe caps so i electric taped the shit outa the holes making sure no sharp spots
i dont have my cap lighting extention yet but i need to hookthisup so i took out the 240 breaker for now till later this week
installed a ground bar uphigh cuz there was no other room just had to drill it right through the metal box
and yes i know the ground bar screw is falling out ill be putting in longer ones later
Y
yamaha_1fan
Well I think it looks much better. You confused the crap out of us with that first pic and all that wiring.
I am hoping someone with more experience can clarify but how does that panel support 240 circuits.? Maybe from the pic I cant see but shouldnt there be two legs? It seems like where the breakers snap in, thats only one leg. Or is there two and I am missing it?
I am hoping someone with more experience can clarify but how does that panel support 240 circuits.? Maybe from the pic I cant see but shouldnt there be two legs? It seems like where the breakers snap in, thats only one leg. Or is there two and I am missing it?
G
Guest
well yamaha the only thing i can say is i have never been shocked in over 20 years of doing my own wireing and as faR AS i can tell nutral and ground are the same thing. there both grounded and a ground is a ground is a ground, thanks for replying, none of the other experts tryed to explain it to me so i assume they cantyamaha_1fan said:
Dr. G
Active member
ok in my main box there is no ground that i can see wtf so i just hook the ground and the nutrual to the same thing?
i found this it says to connect the ground and the nutral together at the main box??
If the bonding strap is used, the strap is inserted into one of the neutral terminal points, and the screws are tightened securely.
BUT WE CAN'T DO THIS... because we are using this panel as a subsidiary panel, or sub-panel. This panel is simply a branch of the main panel, and there is a strict rule about this neutral-and-ground connection.
The neutral and ground wires MUST be connected together, but ONLY at the main panel.
Why not connect the neutral and ground at other points in the system?
Because if a neutral wire became disconnected (I've seen it happen), the return path for electric current could be along a ground wire. While that itself may not be a hazard, if that ground wire also became disconnected somewhere, parts of the ground system could be energized. That's not EVER supposed to happen.
The neutral wire is essentially a "low-risk" return path for the electric current in that branch of the system. All of the neutral wires all have the same electrical potential... nothing. At least, no potential compared to ground. There is, of course, 120 volts of potential difference between a neutral wire and any hot wire in the residential system.
If you touched the metal part of a live neutral wire you should not receive a shock. (But don't try it!) By tying the neutral to ground at one point, half of the conductors (in a typical 120 volt circuit) have no dangerous electrical potential. Of course, the hot wires are still dangerous.
i found this it says to connect the ground and the nutral together at the main box??
If the bonding strap is used, the strap is inserted into one of the neutral terminal points, and the screws are tightened securely.
BUT WE CAN'T DO THIS... because we are using this panel as a subsidiary panel, or sub-panel. This panel is simply a branch of the main panel, and there is a strict rule about this neutral-and-ground connection.
The neutral and ground wires MUST be connected together, but ONLY at the main panel.
Why not connect the neutral and ground at other points in the system?
Because if a neutral wire became disconnected (I've seen it happen), the return path for electric current could be along a ground wire. While that itself may not be a hazard, if that ground wire also became disconnected somewhere, parts of the ground system could be energized. That's not EVER supposed to happen.
The neutral wire is essentially a "low-risk" return path for the electric current in that branch of the system. All of the neutral wires all have the same electrical potential... nothing. At least, no potential compared to ground. There is, of course, 120 volts of potential difference between a neutral wire and any hot wire in the residential system.
If you touched the metal part of a live neutral wire you should not receive a shock. (But don't try it!) By tying the neutral to ground at one point, half of the conductors (in a typical 120 volt circuit) have no dangerous electrical potential. Of course, the hot wires are still dangerous.
ThereIsHope
Member
Dr. G said:
Usually your MAIN BREAKER is housed in the MAIN panel adjacent the meter.
The picture you are showing appears to be a sub-panel off the main panel (where the main breaker is located).
Sub panels should NEVER have the neutral and grounding bus bars in common.
In a main panel this is ok but NOT a sub-panel.
Don't be surprised to find electricians who do this incorrectly and will argue it is ok because it is not.
Also do not hesitate to drive a piece of rebar into the ground or preferably already set in the foundation to ground the sub-panel this way.
Grounding theory and grounding loops are in the realm of the electrical engineers. I would suggest you get an electrician amigo to look over your handywork. All it takes is one bad wiring job and you are looking at FIRE and cops etc etc etc.....it just is not worth it brother to save a few bucks.
Y
yamaha_1fan
DR.G I understand how a 240 breaker works. Its just in your panel I am confused. I guess that lug on the left and the bottom right are for the hots. Seems odd the way they are sperated, thats all. Guess I am used to seeing the bigger panel layouts, like your main panel.
ThereIsHope
Member
Dr. G said:
A main panel houses the main breaker. Wherever the meter is located, that is your main panel if the main breaker is located there.
Buy yourself a circuit tester. They plug into your outlets and have three lights to show reverse polarity, open neutrals, open grounds etc. They cost around $7.00. This is cheap insurance to make sure your wiring is done somewhat correctly at the outlets.
Dr. G
Active member
ThereIsHope said:
thanks buddy already got one a while ago going to hd to get a 60 amp dp breaker since mine dont work with the main breaker panel
now i dont think i reall yneed to shut down the main power right im just wireing the ground and the nutral then snapping in the breaker
Dr. G. - Your main panel doesn't have a main breaker. There may be one between the panel and the meter; maybe not. Lots of old panels don't have a main breaker and you have to pull the meter to shut off the power to the panel.
Do connect the ground and neutral from your sub-panel to the neutral bar in the main panel.
In your pic, the next to the last breaker down on the right hand side has two wires going into one breaker, and one of the wires is white. The way your house was originally wired, the whites were neutral. That really doesn't look right??? Then you have two white wires wire-nutted together with a blue wire. That makes no sense at all in a panel. If you are having any electrical elsewhere in your house, I'd try to figure out why that stuff in your panel is hooked up wrong.
In one of your original pics, your panel appeared to have a knock-out removed but the hole was not being used. That is where I thought you should put a plug. Where your wires are entering your panel and your receptacle boxes, you need to get the proper sized wire clamp to put in those holes and secure the wires. Running directly into a metal box with no clamp in the hole is just begging for a short.
LOL I've pulled wire for over 30 years and I'd turn it off. If you must work on a hot panel, make sure you take off any watch or jewelry, wear rubber gloves and wrap all but the very tip of your screwdriver with electrical tape. When working in the panel, pay absolute attention to where your hands are, where your tools are and where the ends of the wires you are installing are. Wear safety glasses - if you fuck up real bad you can get a spark in your eye. Have a friend standing nearby, prepared to tackle you if you start yelling - if you get hung up between two lines and have 240 volts going through you, about the only muscles that will work are your vocal cords, hence the yelling part. Make sure your friend understands that it has to be a flying tackle, if s/he just grabs you, s/he will get shocked too.
Good luck!
PC
Do connect the ground and neutral from your sub-panel to the neutral bar in the main panel.
In your pic, the next to the last breaker down on the right hand side has two wires going into one breaker, and one of the wires is white. The way your house was originally wired, the whites were neutral. That really doesn't look right??? Then you have two white wires wire-nutted together with a blue wire. That makes no sense at all in a panel. If you are having any electrical elsewhere in your house, I'd try to figure out why that stuff in your panel is hooked up wrong.
In one of your original pics, your panel appeared to have a knock-out removed but the hole was not being used. That is where I thought you should put a plug. Where your wires are entering your panel and your receptacle boxes, you need to get the proper sized wire clamp to put in those holes and secure the wires. Running directly into a metal box with no clamp in the hole is just begging for a short.
Dr. G said:
LOL I've pulled wire for over 30 years and I'd turn it off. If you must work on a hot panel, make sure you take off any watch or jewelry, wear rubber gloves and wrap all but the very tip of your screwdriver with electrical tape. When working in the panel, pay absolute attention to where your hands are, where your tools are and where the ends of the wires you are installing are. Wear safety glasses - if you fuck up real bad you can get a spark in your eye. Have a friend standing nearby, prepared to tackle you if you start yelling - if you get hung up between two lines and have 240 volts going through you, about the only muscles that will work are your vocal cords, hence the yelling part. Make sure your friend understands that it has to be a flying tackle, if s/he just grabs you, s/he will get shocked too.
Good luck!
PC
Last edited:
Dr. G
Active member
PharmaCan said:Dr. G. - Your main panel doesn't have a main breaker. There may be one between the panel and the meter; maybe not. Lots of old panels don't have a main breaker and you have to pull the meter to shut off the power to the panel.
Do connect the ground and neutral from your sub-panel to the neutral bar in the main panel.
In your pic, the next to the last breaker down on the right hand side has two wires going into one breaker, and one of the wires is white. The way your house was originally wired, the whites were neutral. That really doesn't look right??? Then you have two white wires wire-nutted together with a blue wire. That makes no sense at all in a panel. If you are having any electrical elsewhere in your house, I'd try to figure out why that stuff in your panel is hooked up wrong.
In one of your original pics, your panel appeared to have a knock-out removed but the hole was not being used. That is where I thought you should put a plug. Where your wires are entering your panel and your receptacle boxes, you need to get the proper sized wire clamp to put in those holes and secure the wires. Running directly into a metal box with no clamp in the hole is just begging for a short.
LOL I've pulled wire for over 30 years and I'd turn it off. If you must work on a hot panel, make sure you take off any watch or jewelry, wear rubber gloves and wrap all but the very tip of your screwdriver with electrical tape. When working in the panel, pay absolute attention to where your hands are, where your tools are and where the ends of the wires you are installing are. Wear safety glasses - if you fuck up real bad you can get a spark in your eye. Have a friend standing nearby, prepared to tackle you if you start yelling - if you get hung up between two lines and have 240 volts going through you, about the only muscles that will work are your vocal cords, hence the yelling part. Make sure your friend understands that it has to be a flying tackle, if s/he just grabs you, s/he will get shocked too.
Good luck!
PC
ok thank you i cant find a main breaker ill look harder but i dont think so
ill deff have someone standing by i go get some clamps too is a rubber handled screw driver enough thats what it says to use in my book but ill also wrap everything in electrical tape
Dr. G said:
The problem is there's a lot of bare metal parts in that panel that have electricity in them. Accidently bump into the wrong two parts with your screwdriver and you can melt half you panel in a few milliseconds. Aside from the damage, this sends off large sparks of molten metal that burn like a mofo.
PC
fishheadbob
Member
2 words Doc... Smoke Detectors. You really absolutely positively have to read a simple wiring book when you're not buzzed. Plus, the firemen are going to blow you in.
Dr. G
Active member
fishheadbob said:
ya um what mkes you think i havent maby the 12 times i posted that i have a book been recreching this for a mth now and do ahve everything hooked up correct
i have smoke dectors fire extingushers
maby read alittle when YOUR not buzzed and you would have seen that i have a book somewhat know what im doing and have this all being looked over by all the people who like to actually give help not just ridicule
fuck already
Dr. G
Active member
so im not dead everything worked just fine i had to switch some breakers around to fit it and also to get some wires behind all the others
if i was to have a fire or any kind how long till i know?
and after i swtiched everythng back on there was a plastic melting smell in my front hall all outlets and lights work just fine wit the tester the smell could have been my fishtank light its done that b4 i got water in it and it started smoking but no smoke there was some burning smell comming f0rm the 2 bar t5 on my fishtank but not very storng
like the smell came from one little tiny millisecond jolt and then nothing made the smell or was hot anymore
my fishtank light slightly smells i was thinking its that and the smell just dissapated over the 10 mins i was lookign for the source?
this light has a bunch of salt and shit crusted on it maby i should just unplug it for good
if i was to have a fire or any kind how long till i know?
and after i swtiched everythng back on there was a plastic melting smell in my front hall all outlets and lights work just fine wit the tester the smell could have been my fishtank light its done that b4 i got water in it and it started smoking but no smoke there was some burning smell comming f0rm the 2 bar t5 on my fishtank but not very storng
like the smell came from one little tiny millisecond jolt and then nothing made the smell or was hot anymore
my fishtank light slightly smells i was thinking its that and the smell just dissapated over the 10 mins i was lookign for the source?
this light has a bunch of salt and shit crusted on it maby i should just unplug it for good
