beauty girls there Yort...they look perfect..so green and girlie...here is a couple of pics of GG#4....thanks josey x100...DJXX
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Gorilla Glue #4
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I strongly disagree with that. At least here in San Diego the dud phenomenon is not confined to Sour Dub and her offspring. There's very little I'm sure about concerning duds but of that I am certain. While Sour Dub genes might be more inclined to do so they're not the only ones.
i.e. Aliendawg, ether pheno will slide in and out of a dud state exactly like the Sour Dub does
I agree.
I don't buy into the idea that so many people have calcium or magnesium deficiency, and I don't buy into the idea that so many people's plants are showing what you're saying is a very rare genetic defect.
Even when talking about GG4 or Sour dubb, it's highly likely that there are other things involved, and when you see people pushing ECs of 1.8 and above and using calmag as well, it's much more likely to be related to that.
People, including a lot of members in this thread, have shown us countless times that you grow perfect herb on 1.0-1.2ec of balanced feed. The fact that people are getting away with almost doubling that number just shows you how hardy a plant this is to grow, but also why so many people are running into problems.
How do you mean slide in and out?
Very true
It turns into hemp with the slightest of variance in conditions. But the weird thing is when it happens I'll have 3 similar plants all given the same exact regiment but one plant will end up fire while the plant next to it ends up as trash. Any cuts from the suspected duds will then under perform themselves without extensive rehabilitation
I normally feed 0.8-1.0 in veg. 1.2 in flower and 1.4 during peak swelling.
*I've only had a few duds, it's not something I'm consistently getting but I do have certain cuts I know to look out for
** but yes it's highly possible I don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about
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I am not intending to say that it can not be passed along to other plants - but unless you have had Sour Dubb - to FULLY understand exactly what the symptoms and behavior is like, it's a bit far fetched to say every under performing, improperly grown, poorly cared for plant is a "dud".
I'm just trying to prevent the terminology from being used in a generic manner as opposed to addressing a very specific phenomenon.
Sour Dubb is the ONLY plant I've had that ever did this - and when she was in the room, it did NOT spread to my other plants, even when clones were in the same trays or bubble cloner, etc.
I'm just reflecting on my experience with it - but more so - the bold part is / was my main point.
dank.Frank
I agree with frank on this one, the whole dudd thing came from sour dubb originally, I've gotten some dudd og cuts as well that came from the diego region(southwest og)...not the same as overfeeding by any means, you could feed a dudd plant ro and it will stay dark green for much longer than you would expect.
i have gotten inferior copies and they just didn't perform like the previous run of the same...i think you have to make sure you have a vigorous and healthy donor for the cuts or you might get a bad copy, therefore a shitty performing girl...i have a White Jones that is always so frosty it stands out...well this run of a copy of the WJ, had only 20% of the trichage of the previous run....i think its all about the mom or donor of the cuts taken...DJXX
it's anyones guess at this point, some say fusarium caused by broadmites...which makes sense...but contrary to what you posted above it can happen at total random, only effect a small % of plants even cuts off the same mother...I've personally seen it skip generations and show up randomly...nature works in many mysterious ways, think of this as an aurora borealis type of phenomenon lol
Exactly.
Take 2x-3x more cuts than you actually need - an ONLY keep the very best ones - for your garden and rotations.
I'm not sure when that process was forgotten - it's never been, take 5 grow 5. It's take 10, take 15, pick the best 5.
That is how you clone properly if you hope to keep genetic integrity.
dank.Frank
There is a VERY long heated thread about the root cause of this - I don't think there will be or can be anything stated conclusively without having a lab analyze plant material that is suffering from "duddism".
And actually this DOES happen in nature...even in humans. Look at gene traits for baldness, just for a quick example. But there are MANY genetic traits that are KNOWN to skip a generation and then resurface again later...
Know if that makes it a fair comparison to cannabis - eh, it's a stretch, but it shouldn't be stated that such things do not happen.
Recessive alleles - recessive gene traits - allomorphism, etc...
dank.Frank
If cloning creates exact genetic copies ,
What does having more clones get you but more plants?
If the dud is random, how do you know if 1 or 100 extra clones will defend against having a dud? And how do you know what you selected to not be a dud, will stay not duded?
If any plant at any time can dud?
If it's genetic , what's to stop all the clones from exhibiting the trait?
It sounds like the plants turn in to duds during the grow, not that they started out as duds..if that was the case no one would even attempt propagation...
Which galvanizes my theory, that the duds are the growers not the plant.
Fusarium is a root disease, how do tarsonemid mites cause it?
Are you going to say that they release a toxin in to the plant? Can you name it?
There are pathology labs that will accept cannabis samples , why hasn't any one experiencing this problem had a test done to verify the root cause (no pun intended) and just move past it?
What does having more clones get you but more plants?
If the dud is random, how do you know if 1 or 100 extra clones will defend against having a dud? And how do you know what you selected to not be a dud, will stay not duded?
If any plant at any time can dud?
If it's genetic , what's to stop all the clones from exhibiting the trait?
It sounds like the plants turn in to duds during the grow, not that they started out as duds..if that was the case no one would even attempt propagation...
Which galvanizes my theory, that the duds are the growers not the plant.
Fusarium is a root disease, how do tarsonemid mites cause it?
Are you going to say that they release a toxin in to the plant? Can you name it?
There are pathology labs that will accept cannabis samples , why hasn't any one experiencing this problem had a test done to verify the root cause (no pun intended) and just move past it?
The LA cup duds came as duds its night an day once I was gifted a very healthy GG4 plant. Almost didn't even look like the same plant first words out of my mouth was that looks a lot different then what was being sold at the LA cup.
Im going all in on Phytoplasma
Ive seen this problem for a few years now...b4 Broad Mites...
OG Kush 1st strain to do it... it was a picture of JeffSpicoli's plant that he put up in Black/White...
http://www.2014.botanyconference.org/engine/search/index.php?func=detail&aid=285
Understanding plant development from a new teacher-Phytoplasma, a bacterial pathogen causing genetic reprogramming in plants.
Use of genetic screens and the genetic manipulation of gene functions have immensely helped in understanding the molecular basis of plant development in the past two decades. However, natural or induced mutants in the forward as well as reverse genetic approaches used, essentially involve DNA sequence level changes in the gene/s of interest to varying extents. The peculiar symptoms produced by bacterial pathogen Phytoplasma in several phenotypic traits such as conversion of flower and its whorls to leaves, flattening of stem, reversion of extra floral nectarines to flowers etc. offer a unique opportunity to understand the genes and the regulatory pathways controlling plant development without altering them at the sequence level. Phytoplasma, the wall-less bacteria having highly reduced AT rich genome evolved from Acholeplasma like organisms through reductive evolution are transmitted by sap sucking insects. Due to their sieve tube limited niche in the plants, the reprogramming of the development patterns caused by the altered activities of mesristmatic cells is likely to be mediated by effector molecules of bacterial origin. Detection and characterization of the target genomic regions of these effector molecules and the downstream interactions in the host plant are useful in understanding their role in genetic control of the altered phenotype produced. An array of peculiar phenotypes such as phyllody, fasciation, virescence, witches broom, little leaf etc. are produced by Phytoplasma in an oil yielding plant sesame, ( Sesamum indicum L.). These developmental alterations along with indeterminate habit, high susceptibility to Phytoplasma and short life- cycle of sesame make it a model system for understanding plant development using phytoplasma. Anatomical, physiological and molecular changes in sesame showing altered phenotypic traits caused by Phytoplasma were investigated. Our findings highlighting the aspects of flower and leaf development in sesame in particular and plants in general will be presented and discussed.
Ive seen this problem for a few years now...b4 Broad Mites...
OG Kush 1st strain to do it... it was a picture of JeffSpicoli's plant that he put up in Black/White...
http://www.2014.botanyconference.org/engine/search/index.php?func=detail&aid=285
Understanding plant development from a new teacher-Phytoplasma, a bacterial pathogen causing genetic reprogramming in plants.
Use of genetic screens and the genetic manipulation of gene functions have immensely helped in understanding the molecular basis of plant development in the past two decades. However, natural or induced mutants in the forward as well as reverse genetic approaches used, essentially involve DNA sequence level changes in the gene/s of interest to varying extents. The peculiar symptoms produced by bacterial pathogen Phytoplasma in several phenotypic traits such as conversion of flower and its whorls to leaves, flattening of stem, reversion of extra floral nectarines to flowers etc. offer a unique opportunity to understand the genes and the regulatory pathways controlling plant development without altering them at the sequence level. Phytoplasma, the wall-less bacteria having highly reduced AT rich genome evolved from Acholeplasma like organisms through reductive evolution are transmitted by sap sucking insects. Due to their sieve tube limited niche in the plants, the reprogramming of the development patterns caused by the altered activities of mesristmatic cells is likely to be mediated by effector molecules of bacterial origin. Detection and characterization of the target genomic regions of these effector molecules and the downstream interactions in the host plant are useful in understanding their role in genetic control of the altered phenotype produced. An array of peculiar phenotypes such as phyllody, fasciation, virescence, witches broom, little leaf etc. are produced by Phytoplasma in an oil yielding plant sesame, ( Sesamum indicum L.). These developmental alterations along with indeterminate habit, high susceptibility to Phytoplasma and short life- cycle of sesame make it a model system for understanding plant development using phytoplasma. Anatomical, physiological and molecular changes in sesame showing altered phenotypic traits caused by Phytoplasma were investigated. Our findings highlighting the aspects of flower and leaf development in sesame in particular and plants in general will be presented and discussed.
There is a lab in Fresno that can test for phytoplasma.
The key difference here though which invalidates that particular argument is that you're talking about clones, not offspring.
Some Heavy Reading.... but this will really help anyone with their understanding of the issues being discussed
http://www.plantcell.org/content/early/2014/06/11/tpc.114.125419.long
Intervention of Phytohormone Pathways by Pathogen Effectors
http://www.plantcell.org/content/early/2014/06/11/tpc.114.125419.long
Intervention of Phytohormone Pathways by Pathogen Effectors
Clones may NOT be exact 1:1 copies...even though they contain the same DNA.
http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2011/110729.html - news article
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3162137/ - research report.
Also - it is worth reading about "posttranscriptional regulation of gene expression by RNA interference"...and related topics of gene regulation.
dank.Frank
http://www.ox.ac.uk/media/news_stories/2011/110729.html - news article
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3162137/ - research report.
Also - it is worth reading about "posttranscriptional regulation of gene expression by RNA interference"...and related topics of gene regulation.
dank.Frank
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