Going after the bastards that have worked against us for so long ?
- Thread starter 9Lives
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Chomp
slappyjack
Member
Chomp, I used to think that was true but it's being proven to not be the case. Lots of people want to be able to continue the making black market profits while selling their product in a semi-legal market -- AKA decriminalization. It makes no sense.
It's not just semantics, it's people arguing against personal freedom because it might hurt their bottom line. The very definition of greed. I will fight against this attitude until the day Cannabis is legal.
I'm still waiting for ONE commercial grower to call for full legalization.
It's not just semantics, it's people arguing against personal freedom because it might hurt their bottom line. The very definition of greed. I will fight against this attitude until the day Cannabis is legal.
I'm still waiting for ONE commercial grower to call for full legalization.
C
Cinderella99
Right on...
Right on...
This is a no-brainer....That's why I'm for (rational) legalization - don't profit...
For those folks that make money growing and think they can compete with big business by "niching out the market"...Ah, you need to 1) wake up or 2) take business 101 again.
That will be one of the benefits, though, to keep the (big) illegal dollars out of it. I'm not talking about someone that grows to keep their friends happy and pay their costs because they have a special strain...But the big $$'s.
It's a nice thought with AB390 and all, but that bill don't have a snow ball's chance... There's too much at stake for too many people (not just profiteering growers)...Let's call a spade a spade here folks and stop the "California Dreaming". We need another 10 years before full-on legalization happens. Yes, decriminalization of small amounts w/out MMJ can and is happening quicker (Remember Debbie Downer from SNL
Right on...
This is a no-brainer....That's why I'm for (rational) legalization - don't profit...
For those folks that make money growing and think they can compete with big business by "niching out the market"...Ah, you need to 1) wake up or 2) take business 101 again.
That will be one of the benefits, though, to keep the (big) illegal dollars out of it. I'm not talking about someone that grows to keep their friends happy and pay their costs because they have a special strain...But the big $$'s.
It's a nice thought with AB390 and all, but that bill don't have a snow ball's chance... There's too much at stake for too many people (not just profiteering growers)...Let's call a spade a spade here folks and stop the "California Dreaming". We need another 10 years before full-on legalization happens. Yes, decriminalization of small amounts w/out MMJ can and is happening quicker (Remember Debbie Downer from SNL
LEGALIZATION IS JUST ANOTHER WAY FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO GAIN CONTROL!! you people need to open your minds!! we the people are gaining so much power and control from ganja crops, of course the want to legalize and tax it to death like everything else!! I AM TOTALLY AGAINST THIS 100%
J
JackTheGrower
Wow this is an interesting debate.
Personally I'm one who mixed the terms legalization and decriminalization at will without thought.
So there is 1.) Legalization : And 2.) Decriminalization.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalization
Legalization
Legalization is the process of removing a legal prohibition against something which is currently not legal.
Legalization is a process often applied to what are now regarded as victimless crimes, such as the consumption of illegal drugs (see Drug legalization). It should be contrasted with decriminalization, which removes criminal charges from an action, but leaves intact associated laws and regulations.
Proponents of libertarianism support legalization of victimless crimes, such as recreational drug use and prostitution.
[edit] See also
* Arguments for and against drug prohibition
* Repeal
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http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/decriminalization
decriminalization
decriminalization n. the repeal or amendment (undoing) of statutes which made certain acts criminal, so that those acts no longer are crimes or subject to prosecution. Many states have decriminalized certain sexual practices between consenting adults, "loitering," (hanging out without any criminal activity), or out-moded racist laws against miscegenation (marriage or cohabitation between people of different races). Currently, there is a considerable movement toward decriminalization of the use of some narcotics (particularly marijuana) by adults, on various grounds, including individual rights and contention that decriminalization would take the profit out of the drug trade by making drugs available through clinics and other legal sources.
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So the thing then is to "back up a step or two" but not abandon the road we in the USA is on with Marijuana?
Keep regulations but remove criminality rather then remove regulations and start over with new laws, taxes and regulations?
IS this the correct contrast?
Jack
Personally I'm one who mixed the terms legalization and decriminalization at will without thought.
So there is 1.) Legalization : And 2.) Decriminalization.
-----------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalization
Legalization
Legalization is the process of removing a legal prohibition against something which is currently not legal.
Legalization is a process often applied to what are now regarded as victimless crimes, such as the consumption of illegal drugs (see Drug legalization). It should be contrasted with decriminalization, which removes criminal charges from an action, but leaves intact associated laws and regulations.
Proponents of libertarianism support legalization of victimless crimes, such as recreational drug use and prostitution.
[edit] See also
* Arguments for and against drug prohibition
* Repeal
---------------
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/decriminalization
decriminalization
decriminalization n. the repeal or amendment (undoing) of statutes which made certain acts criminal, so that those acts no longer are crimes or subject to prosecution. Many states have decriminalized certain sexual practices between consenting adults, "loitering," (hanging out without any criminal activity), or out-moded racist laws against miscegenation (marriage or cohabitation between people of different races). Currently, there is a considerable movement toward decriminalization of the use of some narcotics (particularly marijuana) by adults, on various grounds, including individual rights and contention that decriminalization would take the profit out of the drug trade by making drugs available through clinics and other legal sources.
------------------------
So the thing then is to "back up a step or two" but not abandon the road we in the USA is on with Marijuana?
Keep regulations but remove criminality rather then remove regulations and start over with new laws, taxes and regulations?
IS this the correct contrast?
Jack
This is a no-brainer....That's why I'm for (rational) legalization - don't profit...
For those folks that make money growing and think they can compete with big business by "niching out the market"...Ah, you need to 1) wake up or 2) take business 101 again.
That will be one of the benefits, though, to keep the (big) illegal dollars out of it. I'm not talking about someone that grows to keep their friends happy and pay their costs because they have a special strain...But the big $$'s.
It's a nice thought with AB390 and all, but that bill don't have a snow ball's chance... There's too much at stake for too many people (not just profiteering growers)...Let's call a spade a spade here folks and stop the "California Dreaming". We need another 10 years before full-on legalization happens. Yes, decriminalization of small amounts w/out MMJ can and is happening quicker (Remember Debbie Downer from SNL
There will always be a niche market! And it is because of the breeders.. You think you will see rezdog seeds on seedbay when it's legal ? Or any other breeder ? No point in selling strains when it's legal. If you wanted to grow let's say sour diesel and sell it there would probably be some sort of royalties to pay even if you get rezdogs permission ( using rez as an example!). It will be a quality based market..Just like the wine industry!
And what is BIG BUSINESS ? When it comes to cannabis growing ? I would say any 'big' commercial grower has the resources to fill 20 acres with greenhouses..How big are we talking here ? There will be a niche market because of that fact..because cannabis growing is cheap and easy. There will be PLENTY of bud available very close to the break even point..
U
ureapwhatusow
i gotta be honest i dont see anyone saying they want it to stay illegal
can you link a thread with any of these posts ? just curious cause i havent seen what you claim to have seen
U
ureapwhatusow
A) decriminalization its not a bureaucratic jargon, someone listed the definition
for you a few posts back
but lets touch on the real factor
you being afraid does not equate to whats best for ppl
basically you telling us now that your fear is the catalyst to your desire for legalization, NOT a desire to want whats best for America and Americans and out economy
Chomp
Member
ureapwhatusow - It's all over the net and TV even the prohibitionists are throwing out different versions and definitions of decrim and legalization.
The bottom line is we should be able to grow, sell, and smoke weed without the fear of being incarcerated, fined, or otherwise adversely sanctioned in anyway. Tax the commercial growers just like any other industry and leave the personal/ micro-grower the f*ck alone. That's my definition of a perfect canna-world...call it whatever you want.
Chomp
The bottom line is we should be able to grow, sell, and smoke weed without the fear of being incarcerated, fined, or otherwise adversely sanctioned in anyway. Tax the commercial growers just like any other industry and leave the personal/ micro-grower the f*ck alone. That's my definition of a perfect canna-world...call it whatever you want.
Chomp
Re: the small commercial growers, there would still be room for those, they will just have to start ensuring they have the best quality product on the market, instead of compromising for a balance of quality/time/yield.
Whatever weed you might be able to buy from your local supermarket would be profit driven, cash focused..
Think of the commercial high grade buds you can buy now. Nice strains, not necessarily finished properly, higher yielding phenos chosen over more potent phenos - that will be the place of the multinationals to churn out.
Your average dude who makes a few thousand a month selling that right now will have to start selling the best bud available, and will find this easier because swapping clones, group breeding projects etc will become easier. Also not forgetting that government taxation would drive prices up, and up, and up over time - can't be a bad thing for his bottom line, either?
Whatever weed you might be able to buy from your local supermarket would be profit driven, cash focused..
Think of the commercial high grade buds you can buy now. Nice strains, not necessarily finished properly, higher yielding phenos chosen over more potent phenos - that will be the place of the multinationals to churn out.
Your average dude who makes a few thousand a month selling that right now will have to start selling the best bud available, and will find this easier because swapping clones, group breeding projects etc will become easier. Also not forgetting that government taxation would drive prices up, and up, and up over time - can't be a bad thing for his bottom line, either?
what kind of commerical grower are you speaking of though?
large ops, like those that pump a few hundred bricks after harvest to the market, that brick u see everywhere and that gets in through the boarders... the one that fuels the war on drugs too... it is a system in which both mafias have a feed-back going on; the goverment on the one hand wages the war against drugs, and the drug lords make a kill in the black market; then a big chunck of this black market profit goes to the goverment to keep the current irrational drug-laws in place, which in turn makes the goverment spend big on the war on drugs and the circle goes on...
so a big ass commerical grower like that has no interest in legalization, it would kill the monopoly they have... as it is, with current laws, there are already all-out wars to see who keeps the market to themselves.
not only that, but with legalization, the arms market would drop like mad....
too much cheese to be lost...
so this is why it is important to disobey in a civil manner such irrational laws and grow your own, and follow the three Ls, don't tell, don't smell, don't sell.
this way we get out of the vicious circle composed of goverment + drug lords + arms lords.
overgrow the goverment
peace
A
alpinestar
Let's say..Marijuana will be legal in the next 20 years. I think it is a pretty reasonable expectation. How do you feel about the people who have worked against legalization..How should they be treated once this happens ?
I seriously hope we are not too drunk (or high?) from victory that we forget the souless demagogs! YOUR THOUGHTS ?
(edited because of dysgraphia
who cares, they will just have wasted their time to have achieved nothing and have gained enemies
people dedicate their lives to trying to fight it, if its legalized, imagine what that would do to them
i guess they could go back to fighting alcohol again.... we always HAVE to have an invisible enemy to fight or else the government isnt doing its job of wasting tax money
U
ureapwhatusow
agreed 100%ureapwhatusow - It's all over the net and TV even the prohibitionists are throwing out different versions and definitions of decrim and legalization.
The bottom line is we should be able to grow, sell, and smoke weed without the fear of being incarcerated, fined, or otherwise adversely sanctioned in anyway.
Chomp
Tax the commercial growers just like any other industry and leave the personal/ micro-grower the f*ck alone. That's my definition of a perfect canna-world...call it whatever you want.
agreed 100% and i think legalization will not achieve this end i think decriminalization will
if it goes legal we will pay tax if it goes decrim we pay fine
either way there is a cost
that being said
they will not tax just commercial guys and let the home grower have their cake and eat it too
I think legalization has the potential to restrict the general public from growing weed period once it becomes a medicine
i think it will become a pharmaceutical commodity and we will be at risk of imprisonment if we grow without licenses which require PHd and other capital time rich resources
I think decriminalization keeps this form being possible basically cause you cant have a a publicly traded company who's published business plan is based on growing a decriminalized weed
it guarantees a decentralized market and increase our freedoms wiht less liability for future detrimental changes and legislature
lets make it free and move on, does marijuana have to be a part of the red tape?
does it need to be regulated or free?
i want the same freedoms you do, i think most of the arguments miss the basic point of letting the same ppl who had no problem condemning ppl to life in prison regulating the plant with impunity
RE: commercial growers
RE: commercial growers
also, more on the subject of commercial growers:
these come in many varieties, shapes and sizes. Say, the commerical grower who grows to mantain his/her family, to help their minimun wage income, who provide quality medicine to those in need of it, who provide quality herbs for recreation as well as sacraments to those not able to grow for themselves, who profit enough and do not hoard wealth, and do not grow just to expect cash at the end of harvest, but who cultivate their crop with love and respect. these provide a true service to their communities, regardless of the current mis-information going on strong atm, because whether legal or illegal, these kind of growers have always served their communities well just like any other grower of any other kind of produce.
unlike the real big dogs, these deal not only low quality bricked weed, but all sorts of other substances, because the aim is not to serve the community by giving a quality medicial/sacramental herb, but to make money to further whatever kind of agenda they may have, whether political or personal.
one is all about one love, while the other is just one more of the ills of our current world.
imo of course.
paz
RE: commercial growers
also, more on the subject of commercial growers:
these come in many varieties, shapes and sizes. Say, the commerical grower who grows to mantain his/her family, to help their minimun wage income, who provide quality medicine to those in need of it, who provide quality herbs for recreation as well as sacraments to those not able to grow for themselves, who profit enough and do not hoard wealth, and do not grow just to expect cash at the end of harvest, but who cultivate their crop with love and respect. these provide a true service to their communities, regardless of the current mis-information going on strong atm, because whether legal or illegal, these kind of growers have always served their communities well just like any other grower of any other kind of produce.
unlike the real big dogs, these deal not only low quality bricked weed, but all sorts of other substances, because the aim is not to serve the community by giving a quality medicial/sacramental herb, but to make money to further whatever kind of agenda they may have, whether political or personal.
one is all about one love, while the other is just one more of the ills of our current world.
imo of course.
paz
that is an excellent point. this would also keep cannabis get advertised like beer is, it would suck imo. i think cannabis should be free, like any kitchen herb or fruit tree, if you want to grow some, do so, want to sell some? do so, who cares, no need to get all crazy about it... this way each person meets the plant without any sort of prejudice and is free to make up their mind about whether they use it or not, or not care, or care a lot, does not matter, just like you do not matter if some dude ate mango today or some other bought ferts for a basil cultivation.
paz
Let's say..Marijuana will be legal in the next 20 years. I think it is a pretty reasonable expectation. How do you feel about the people who have worked against legalization..How should they be treated once this happens ?
I seriously hope we are not too drunk (or high?) from victory that we forget the souless demagogs! YOUR THOUGHTS ?
(edited because of dysgraphia
What can you do and why would you do it ?
After you win a chess game do you beat the shit out of the guy because he challenged you ?
If you make the winning shot do you spit in your opponents face for playing against you ?
If you where to convince the world god exists or doesn't exist do you tease the (non)/ believers ?
You cant change someones faith in a belief because it doesn't fit your agenda. Mixing hatred and protest into this vision of legalization by asking " what are we gonna do about it!" is false celebration.
Now that might not be your intentions for hatred or protest, but asking " How should they be treated", sounds like animosity to me.
Instead of being bitter with them why not do something sweet and bake them some brownies.
slappyjack
Member
ureapwhatusow - It's all over the net and TV even the prohibitionists are throwing out different versions and definitions of decrim and legalization.
The bottom line is we should be able to grow, sell, and smoke weed without the fear of being incarcerated, fined, or otherwise adversely sanctioned in anyway. Tax the commercial growers just like any other industry and leave the personal/ micro-grower the f*ck alone. That's my definition of a perfect canna-world...call it whatever you want.
Chomp
That's the definition I (and the majority) desire as well, regardless of what it's called. Good post.
What I don't want is what we already have, decrim. Getting caught with less than an oz is basically legal, but also a $50 citation. Why? If you grow on a small scale for personal use and get caught, you go to prison. if you grow on a large scale for profit and get caught, you go to the same prison. Thus decrim, as it's currently defined is worthless. I don't care what they call it, remove the fear of prison for growing a plant and I'll be happy.
slappyjack
Member
I want everyone in the country to enjoy the fruits of this hobby, and I want them to enjoy it without the fear of losing their home, their family and their freedom. That's hardly selfish.
The current definition of decrim (in law, not the dictionary) solves none of these problems.
U
ureapwhatusow
Well this thread has turned to shit...so whatever..
ureapwhatyousow - i hear a lot of talk about how the government is going to tax the homegrower ? Just how are they going to achieve this. No one taxing homebrewers (directly) so what's the difference ? My reasoning behind this is..they can't regulate growers right now (most on this site are getting away with it.) When weed is legal and penalties for growing are gone. No way in hell can they check all the growers who should have licence but don't have one (that's the only way i imagine they can tax the homegrower)..
Centrum - This is not a game of chess..real people get HURT! And yes..growers who get busted are loosing the game. And they get HURT!..All the things you mentioned are happening right now and WE are on the loosing side!
And this is not a game. This is science! If some one tries to convince me that evolution does not exist and all nature came from god in 6000 years..and legilslates it! For sure as shit im going to blow his brains out!
Bottom line it is NOT a matter of belief!
ureapwhatyousow - i hear a lot of talk about how the government is going to tax the homegrower ? Just how are they going to achieve this. No one taxing homebrewers (directly) so what's the difference ? My reasoning behind this is..they can't regulate growers right now (most on this site are getting away with it.) When weed is legal and penalties for growing are gone. No way in hell can they check all the growers who should have licence but don't have one (that's the only way i imagine they can tax the homegrower)..
Centrum - This is not a game of chess..real people get HURT! And yes..growers who get busted are loosing the game. And they get HURT!..All the things you mentioned are happening right now and WE are on the loosing side!
And this is not a game. This is science! If some one tries to convince me that evolution does not exist and all nature came from god in 6000 years..and legilslates it! For sure as shit im going to blow his brains out!
Bottom line it is NOT a matter of belief!
