Gavita DE vs. CMH 630w systems: pros and cons of both?

[srich250]

I thank you big time for your diligent efforts and patience and information. I have learned sooooooo much over the last 3+ yrs from growing indoors and many forums and test after test after test.

I know some people like testing and improving and some like what works even if it's not the best or the most efficient.

You make a great point about us growers measuring everything except PPF.

The main reason I went from .6g/w to 1.0-1.2g/w is distance of light from canopy changes during flowering. The first 3 weeks of 12/12 I get my DE 1000w 18-24" away just before there is any major burning. Then I raise once per week or as needed. Then week 4+ it's raised to final height to allow for no burning.

I used to just mount 3-4' above canopy and let the plants grow into them. But because of the inverse light law, reduced PPF, it made more sense to raise the lights with the canopy. Yes it takes another 15mim every week but when production goes up its worth it. My goal , and it seems like most say the day thing here, is to get each strain or genetic to its maximum potential that's not possible with a lot less DLI than what the sun produces.

I have done a lot of mixed lighting also adding LED to the sides of DE 1000. That or reptile lamps have given me the best yield plus resin production visually and lab testing.

My next tests that have already started are CMH/hps side by side growing/overlapping and also hps/mh as well.

Thanks again and I wish this thread would continue with good side by side light emitting ceramic metal halide CMH 315 or 630 3100k or 4200k tests and pics and results including yield and resin and THC etc

 

[Dislexus]

Haven't read the thread so maybe its been mentioned but its understood that CMH produce extra leafy growth... So at best its ok for veg but definitely not flower... Unless you're OCD and just enjoy trimming and have the time.

 

[Jhhnn]

Haven't read the thread so maybe its been mentioned but its understood that CMH produce extra leafy growth... So at best its ok for veg but definitely not flower... Unless you're OCD and just enjoy trimming and have the time.

I honestly haven't found that to be true but I'm not a production grower who can make direct comparisons using the same strain/clones. Every batch of seedlings is a new adventure.

 

[McKush]

Haven't read the thread so maybe its been mentioned but its understood that CMH produce extra leafy growth... So at best its ok for veg but definitely not flower... Unless you're OCD and just enjoy trimming and have the time.

Heya D - ive never read that about CMH but its an interesting comment. I dont run enough numbers and i keep tweaking my setup so i dont have a meaningful baseline or trend to say one way or the other. Also i only veg with cmh. do you mean produce extra leafy growth in flower or veg or both?

Put me in the Dont Understood column brother

I dont see any evidence that it is not fine for both. If you got some links thatd be cool.

Not pissing or anything, posted with respect. Your post is a little eyebrow raising and im curious

 

[dbkick]

Cmh on a high wattage digital LFSW seems to be promising.

 

[Ready4]

Haven't read the thread so maybe its been mentioned but its understood that CMH produce extra leafy growth... So at best its ok for veg but definitely not flower... Unless you're OCD and just enjoy trimming and have the time.

That is just 100% untrue. No extra leaves appear out of nowhere, complete nonsense. Stretching is held down by CMH, the natural light source is amazing.
Sunlight 315 LEC has worked awesome, keeps a big stretching sativa more compact. Potency sure seems to be increased also, not 100% sure on that. 930 works great as a flowering bulb.

 

[Jhhnn]

That is just 100% untrue. No extra leaves appear out of nowhere, complete nonsense. Stretching is held down by CMH, the natural light source is amazing.
Sunlight 315 LEC has worked awesome, keeps a big stretching sativa more compact. Potency sure seems to be increased also, not 100% sure on that. 930 works great as a flowering bulb.

I think that some strains may appear to be leafier under CDM's because there's less stem, depending. One pheno of goat wreck haze went nuts on me anyway w/ yuuuge internode length.

 

[GoldenSyrup]

I think that some strains may appear to be leafier under CDM's because there's less stem, depending. One pheno of goat wreck haze went nuts on me anyway w/ yuuuge internode length.

Just to chime in with the discussion, I have a cut that stays very short under HPS that stretched like fuck and very nearly caught me out under CMH.


I think the CMH helps plants express whatever percentage that particular pheno leans towards more, for example a 60/40 sat/indica hybrid with a mildly sat leaning pheno it'll express the Sativa growth patterns more under 'daylight' than it would under bland HPS spectrum.

 

[dbkick]

Cmh on a high wattage digital LFSW seems to be promising.

As I was saying.
Hortilux platinum running a Philips allstart 860 seems good.
A high frequency digital ballast would destroy this lamp in no time, a core and coil doesn't do this lamp justice.
CMH is best suited to be run at <174 hz .
Low Frequency square wave digital is the way to go and we'll be seeing a lot more LFSW digital ballasts I'm sure.
One company is selling a LFSW DE light.
I'll be running the platinum on DE MH for the hell of it.

 

[Twisted pleasur]

Love the reads guys. Reminds me of the good old days with Spur and Wassup debating. Allot of food for thought.

But Honestly Ive used DE on my marine Aquariums over SE for decades now. And anyone who knows with that hobby penetration is everything. When DE HPS were finally made for the horticulture side of things and available to me I jumped on them. (Though I did wait for the Gavita E series with the controllers.) You can not beat their intensity. Gravitas are really made for a commercial setting. I would agree they are not the best light on their own if your trying to get single coverage but as a whole with several lights. I would bet my money.. ALL IN the Gavitas outperforming any other light source.

I have never seen my plants respond better then with any other light. In Vegetive state or Reproductive State in my entire life. And I have used everything out there in many different forms over my life. The Greenpower bulb is amazing hands down.

I tried LPS and Ceramic coated MH SE bulbs long before most of you were even born. Built My LED array's over 4 k invested. Induction,T12,T5, Standard MH and all the other spectrums available.

Good Luck with 315's or 630's

 

[Randall Stevens]

Has anyone tried the DE 630 cmh bulbs?

 

[HappyDayz]

My 2 Pence from actual CMH user

My 2 Pence from actual CMH user

So my two pence being an actual gardener who uses a Nanolux 630 lamp...

1. The bulb spectrum is far superior to the traditional HPS 1k
2. The ballast and ray wavelengths are more modern than traditional hps 1k on magnetic ballasts
3. The UV rays are way more balanced than with traditional 1k traditional HPS
4. Sure, more expensive up front cost but I am purchasing a more balanced light spectrum and bulb.
5. Spread is 5x5 all the way to the top 4x4 is ideal

DE is not an option for me, why? HEAT! HEAT! HEAT! An excellent light with right combination, problem is they made for high ceilings to vent the heat, I don't have that high of ceilings I am in a 4x4 tent, DE is not an option for me.

1. DE, has great bulbs and great light spectrum over the traditional hps
2. Initial cost is heavy but get a long term bulb

I can say checking with some experienced growers that they were getting heavier buds with DE lights going, just not an option for me.

But the 630, is a ventable option and pushing air around, yeah root rot and cooking plants with a t5, done that.

With the 630 you need to keep that baby about 2'-3' above canopy, keep an eye on the bud hairs if getting too close, I gotta keep an eye on them.

I can say that I have solid vegitation in flower mode, the light is a crisper white than the traditional hps, yet red vs the t5 power veg and 6k combo light. My leaves are grean and healthy from the bottom to the top. I have to keep trimming the bottoms, they keep trying to popcorn bud on me and veg, but I think my genetics are agressive.

In week 5 going on 6, in week 3 I was getting sticky nodes and trichs, the trichs really started to frost here in week 5 and smell when I touch the stem getting sticky scent is so exciting!

Btw, as a first time grower, either way any of you go, you will get results.

I can also say that traditional hps still gets results too, I debated vented 600 hps vs this 630 CMH open hood. Was kinda a tough call, I went for modern tech and to pioneer the lamp, there were few to no reviews on this lamp. I think it is a great lamp, I would run it on 240v and call it a day.

Happy gardening!

 

[Hammerhead]

I have a test grow going now in my 5x5 tent under 1 630 LEC.. I have 5 different Cultivars in it. I have the same 5 in my main flower room under 3kw Gavita. CDM lights are the best I have used in veg. So far the plants under the 630 are doing awesome. The biggest advantages I see are less electrical usage, less heat and more UV.. If the test goes as I think it will the main flower room will get upgraded from 3 Gavitas to 10 315w cdm.

 

[dbkick]

Anyone running a fuckton of 315 should take a look at the allstart 860 on a digital ballast. No one seems interested in this combo so I wont go into detail.

 

[Midwest Toker]

I'd be interested in the details. I'm running a 330 cdm now and would like to go to an 860 but not on a mag ballast.

 

[dbkick]

The heart of the matter is simple: a 1000w DE is going to blow away a 315w bulb in all contest. Even if you double up the 315w bulbs, you are still not getting the intensity produced by a 1000w, be it DE or SE.

Gavita is popular because they make excellent products and they get them on the store shelves so that people can buy them. A Gavita DE will produce greater yield than any identical wattage SE simply because they produce more light. It's not even arguable; see what commercial growers are doing, they don't waste time or money on things that won't increase production.

The competion Gavita faces today as opposed to a couple years back in huge. I personally would like to know what gavita has over most all other ballasts that run the same lamp.

 

[GoldenSyrup]

The competion Gavita faces today as opposed to a couple years back in huge. I personally would like to know what gavita has over most all other ballasts that run the same lamp.

Theres nothing in it really these days - with Gavita you're paying for a brand like somebody does an Apple phone. They aren't better than some modern Android phones that don't cost as much, but people buy them because it's the "name brand". That's not to say they aren't good units, and that they won't pay for themselves. I like Gavita stuff, they aren't too bad albeit a bit warm running.

@bluerock At 2.1 umoles per watt for the DE and 1.9 for the 315w CMH it's pretty much a no brainer the DE is going to yield more it outputs more light and it's a higher wattage, v 630w would be better. Anyone who has used CMH lighting will tell you it's easier to hit <1GPW than it is to hit >1GPW with HPS lighting, not to mention the DE grows comparatively blander cannabis than CMH lighting does.

 

[Hammerhead]

We dont compare 1 315w vs 1kw Gavita that's not a fair comparison. For ea 1kw you need 3 315w lights. There are pros and cons you need to decide whats important.. CDM uses less amps, Produces less heat, puts out very efficient light spectrum with more UV. Hitting 1gram per what is not a problem.

Some are seeing poor spread and penetration. You should be able to use a mix od DE/CDM. You shouldn't need as many DE lights using them with CDM. I think there are ways to mitigate issues with spread and penetration.

 

[dbkick]

I'd be interested in the details. I'm running a 330 cdm now and would like to go to an 860 but not on a mag ballast.

Watch for a sunplix ballast to be released soon. There's always the used hortilux platinum or Baddass ballast that's LFSW digital.
DNA lighting has a combo that never really worked out too well I think. Where the allstart is meant to be run on a low frequency ballast the same objective can be achieved with ultra high frequency sine wave which failed miserably. I've done the allstart 860 without a problem but my experience with them was short since during warmer times I settle back for the 315 cdm .

 

[dbkick]

Not to derail the thread but it's not too far off topic. The 1kw lamp the gavita uses can be run on a LFSW ballast also, REvoltuion micro is already doing this.