Coco is not immune to being infected with RA's at the store either.
Fungus gnats or WINGED ROOT APHIDS???
- Thread starter spleebale
- Start date
Coco is not immune to being infected with RA's at the store either.
There is no reason to fight about this, guys.
Imid might kill RA's in most instances. Botanigard too. I have used them both to the point of negatively affecting my plants with the poisons alone, yet some of the RA's are still alive.
There has to be other ways to kill these fuckers.
We are all on the same side here. Lets work together.
Imid might kill RA's in most instances. Botanigard too. I have used them both to the point of negatively affecting my plants with the poisons alone, yet some of the RA's are still alive.
There has to be other ways to kill these fuckers.
We are all on the same side here. Lets work together.
B
Buxxy
Ive read great things about nematodes and I have ordered some of for myself also.
I think a lot of people overdo it with the treatments. They think that if label calls for 1 tablespoon, 2 tablespoons will work better.
Also people continue to recommend Bayer Tree & Shrub, which is a higher concentration of imid.
I have posted numerous times that the better choice is Bayer Complete Advanced, or Bayer Citrus. You want the lowest dosage possible that is effective. Overloading them only increases the possibility of resistance or leaving too much imid in the soil/medium, which ends up in the plants, and might not dissipate before harvest.
Tree & Shrub is made for trees. It lingers longer in the soil.
Bayer Complete Advanced is for flowering and fruiting plants, ie, edibles. The label lists the time before harvest that it can be used on various veggies, with times ranging from 7-21 days.
This is for edibles! So from that you can extrapolate that it's safe to use in early flower.
But by all means do not use Tree & Shrub!
It lingers in the medium longer and that's not what we want.
Don't overdose your plants!
More is not better!
The other thing is you have to catch them early.
If not, you already have significant root damage and the chems are not being absorbed properly if at all, which only makes people to increase their dosage, which is bad for reasons I have already stated.
Early prevention is the cure. I know that people don't realize they have them at first, and when they finally realize what the problem is, it's too late in many cases, and they tend to go into panic mode and overdose the plants.
If the recommended dose does not work, it probably means you have caught them too late.
It happened to me. I had a bunch of plants die until I realized what was going on. If plants aren't improving, it's time to dump them and start over.
If you monitor your roots from the get go, you will catch them early and the fix is easy. Once they have gotten out of control, you've got fliers and eggs to deal with, and your environment is compromised and re-infection becomes more likely. It seems that most potting soil already has them in it. I have not found that to be the case with coco.
I've put new coco under the microscope before using and never found anything, because in nature, they live in soil, not coco.
And with so many people growing, you have clones being passed around which helps to spread them.
Also, don't reuse your medium if you want to eliminate the possibility of transferring RAs or their eggs.
Like with cancer, early detection is the cure.
I used Bayer Complete Advanced in my recirculating rez at 10ml/gal on plants that were 2 weeks into veg. I left it in there for about 36 hours and the plants started to look like they were dying (drooping leaves). I took them out to check the roots and they had become yellowed and leathery. So I removed the plants from that machine and put them into flower a week earlier than I usually would, hoping that putting them into 12/12 would somewhat revitalize them as it has done in previous crops. No dice. They look like shit.
When I dosed them with Bayer I had yet to find any crawlers on them, but I did find dead fliers on top of the netpots, so I assume they got in there. The roots were healthy, then began yellowing so I thought they were up to their usual tricks and fought back.
Unfortunately Bayer does not give you any indication how much of their product to run in recirc hydro systems. Botanigard fucked my shit up too. I read somewhere AFTER I used it that it shouldnt be run in recirculating systems. Im flyin by the fucking seat of my pants here. I know how to kill these motherfuckers in coco and soil, but alot of fucking good that does me in an aero system.
Im going to kill these bugs if I have to kill all my plants and burn down the whole neighborhood to do it.
Next is Spectracide, then Evergreen 60-6, after that GASOLINE.
When I dosed them with Bayer I had yet to find any crawlers on them, but I did find dead fliers on top of the netpots, so I assume they got in there. The roots were healthy, then began yellowing so I thought they were up to their usual tricks and fought back.
Unfortunately Bayer does not give you any indication how much of their product to run in recirc hydro systems. Botanigard fucked my shit up too. I read somewhere AFTER I used it that it shouldnt be run in recirculating systems. Im flyin by the fucking seat of my pants here. I know how to kill these motherfuckers in coco and soil, but alot of fucking good that does me in an aero system.
Im going to kill these bugs if I have to kill all my plants and burn down the whole neighborhood to do it.
Next is Spectracide, then Evergreen 60-6, after that GASOLINE.
They are a bitch in hydro systems. Just another reason I never run hydro, although it does give high yields.
You could also have other things going on in hydro like root rot or pythium. Once plants are weakened, they are more susceptible to other maladies. You might want to look into hempy buckets, which are a kind of "passive" hydro. No recirculating. Each bucket has a 2 inch deep res at the bottom, and each day you add your solution to the pot until runoff through the single hole punched in the side of the bucket 2 inches from the bottom. Medium is perlite/vermiculite, or perlite/coco, using 80% perlite. In 5 gallon homer buckets, you get huge plants without the headaches of recirculating hydro. Perlite is not friendly to bugs. Didn't see even a single fungus gnat when I used that system. Check out the thread on hempy buckets.
My theory on hydro systems is that the eggs keep recirculating and the cycle is not broken. Just a theory though.
Bayer doesn't make that stuff with us in mind. It's really made for soil gardens, but you can do a foliar spray with Bayer. I would try that if I were in your situation.
The Spectracide won't work, IMO.
If you decide to start over, try hempy buckets. Very simple and high yield. Hempy pulls 9 -12 ounces from a plant in his buckets, and no worries about root rot or other hydro related problems, and bugs don't take hold in perlite.
I'll try to post some pix of my hempy run. Huge plants without any hassle. A brilliant idea by Dalia Hempy.
You could also have other things going on in hydro like root rot or pythium. Once plants are weakened, they are more susceptible to other maladies. You might want to look into hempy buckets, which are a kind of "passive" hydro. No recirculating. Each bucket has a 2 inch deep res at the bottom, and each day you add your solution to the pot until runoff through the single hole punched in the side of the bucket 2 inches from the bottom. Medium is perlite/vermiculite, or perlite/coco, using 80% perlite. In 5 gallon homer buckets, you get huge plants without the headaches of recirculating hydro. Perlite is not friendly to bugs. Didn't see even a single fungus gnat when I used that system. Check out the thread on hempy buckets.
My theory on hydro systems is that the eggs keep recirculating and the cycle is not broken. Just a theory though.
Bayer doesn't make that stuff with us in mind. It's really made for soil gardens, but you can do a foliar spray with Bayer. I would try that if I were in your situation.
The Spectracide won't work, IMO.
If you decide to start over, try hempy buckets. Very simple and high yield. Hempy pulls 9 -12 ounces from a plant in his buckets, and no worries about root rot or other hydro related problems, and bugs don't take hold in perlite.
I'll try to post some pix of my hempy run. Huge plants without any hassle. A brilliant idea by Dalia Hempy.
Dubb, i just tried out a sample bottle of sns-203. I have 3 weeks old seedling in dwc that were showing early signs (slight root damage) of aphid. Almost immediately after applying a very light of this stuff to my 4 gallon rubbermaid, the plants started to take off again and throw out roots. Its been 4 days since this experiment and so far its been going well with the treatment still in the res.
It seems to me that the micro aphids can take hold very quickly in hydro, but on the same token, im seeing a very quick turn around back into vigor and health after applying the sns treatment.
Like you, i've battled these fuckers in coco before well enough to get through a harvest and considered switching mediums because of the risk of aphids. So I'm continuing to experiment here. I've got my fingers crossed that the sns-203 continues to work. If so, it is a godsend even though it costs an arm and a leg.
That being said, i see that the main ingredient of this stuff is rosemary oil and you can smell it very clearly even diluted in the res. Scents have strong affect on insects, so i wonder if this might help your cause in aero since the roots are not quite submerged.
hempy buckets
My first run in with aphids was in smart pots and all perlite hempy buckets. Perlite indeed makes it tough for fungus gnats to propogate. However, the hempy buckets were ravaged as just as badly as the other plants.
As a further experiment, i tried taking a clone and growing it in pure perlite with NO internal res just to see if the aphids had a tougher time without the internal res to swim in. I could see no positive effect from perlite.
Imid types and dosaging
Although ive read in this thread that we should be using fruit and citrus as opposed to tree and shrub with the reasoning being that the concentration is lower for fruits and edibles. I've also read the idea that the higher concentration found in tree and schrub somehow lasts in the plant longer, and is therefore detrimental. I dont think this is accurate based on a few things:
One of the common treatments is imid based product merit 75 which is a SUPER high concentration of imid (higher than tree and shrub). This is being used all over the country with varying degrees of success on MJ plants. There are even testimonies of people having no success with the bayer products but having success with the higher concentrations in merit 75.
Why the need for a HIGHER concentration? The reasoning is that you don't want ANY aphids lingering after the dosing of imid because this can lead to resistant aphids down the road. This is contrary to what retro has claimed, however, i have no evidence either way as to what concentrations are ideal.
It seems to me however, that the very notion that concentration of the imid should not have an effect on treatment if one considers the dilution rate.
If fruit and citrus is ideal concentration for mj(assuming retro is correct), all one would need to do is dilute the tree and schrub with more water to get the correct concentration of imid. And this is indeed what people ARE doing with the tree and schrub vs the fruit and citrus.
Products like merit 75 are even higher concentrations in undiluted form than tree and schrub and are being used to good effect.
To assume that higher undiluted concentrations out of the bottle/jar has an effect on the half life of imid (which is determined by oxygen) after treatment is erroneous imo.
outdoor aphids vs indoor aphids
Although they are obvoiusly related, there is some evidence to suggest that the ones thriving indoor are propogated indoors as opposed to coming in from the 'outside' aphids.
After reading about someone putting an indoor infested aphid plant outside to treat it, i tried a little experirment myself.
I took some infected coco from a culled vegging plants and dumped the coco into my back yard. The next day, there was NO signs of aphids in the coco anymore. They couldnt last one night against natural predators, whatever they are.
After this, i took an infected house plant and put it outside. The plant is now doing well. Which leads me to believe that the aphids that are proliferating indoors do not do well outdoors. This also suggests however inconclusively, that reinfestation from outside may not be why people have recurring issues.
That phloxerra eggs can survive a 7 minute dip in bleach imo, is the more likely culprit of why these are so hard to get rid of.
how coco can get infected
Many of the major brands of loose bagged coco have small holes in them. These are more than big enough to let in aphids. Especially if the coco is sitting in a hydro store with infected soil. Insects love coco as much as our beloved roots do.
To avoid this, i've start buying the bricked coco. Although the bricked stuff can still be infected out of the bag (can get infected at wherever its getting bagged/compressed), it is at least less likely to have aphids picked up from the hydrostore.
Outdoor aphids & indoor aphids?
LOL, you are seriously deluded!
All aphids come from outdoors.
Do you really think there is a separate species of aphids that evolved indoors?
Just more disinformation from you. No surprise.
And RAs do not "love" coco. They love the roots that are in the coco. RAs live in SOIL in nature. There is no nutritional value in coco, and so RAs do not live in coco unless & until the coco has plants in it. They will go anywhere there are roots.There are no roots in bags of coco in the hydro store.
And we all know about dilution.
The point is not to overdose your plants, and to use the least amount of chems to do the job.
"Insects love coco as much as our beloved roots do"....LOL, that's too funny!
Insects do not love coco,they love the roots that grow in coco.
Again, no nutrition in coco for them, so insects are not sneaking into holes in the bags, just waiting for the bags to be sold in the hope that some roots will be introduced!
You are seriously deluded, show a greater level of ignorance with each post, and have become nothing but a troll in this thread.
The only reason I don't have you on ignore is to rebut your idiotic statements so that others can see your foolishness.
LOL, you are seriously deluded!
All aphids come from outdoors.
Do you really think there is a separate species of aphids that evolved indoors?
Just more disinformation from you. No surprise.
And RAs do not "love" coco. They love the roots that are in the coco. RAs live in SOIL in nature. There is no nutritional value in coco, and so RAs do not live in coco unless & until the coco has plants in it. They will go anywhere there are roots.There are no roots in bags of coco in the hydro store.
And we all know about dilution.
The point is not to overdose your plants, and to use the least amount of chems to do the job.
"Insects love coco as much as our beloved roots do"....LOL, that's too funny!
Insects do not love coco,they love the roots that grow in coco.
Again, no nutrition in coco for them, so insects are not sneaking into holes in the bags, just waiting for the bags to be sold in the hope that some roots will be introduced!
You are seriously deluded, show a greater level of ignorance with each post, and have become nothing but a troll in this thread.
The only reason I don't have you on ignore is to rebut your idiotic statements so that others can see your foolishness.
Yes. Many people believe that there are subspecies adapted to indoor environments and common pestides, that have proliferated in the last 3 years starting in cali, then oregon, colorado, and now the coast. There are many ways for them to have been passed around.
Again, just sharing what is readily available public knowledge.
You're assuming that the RA's will only lay eggs in nutrient rich soil. If you're theory is true, then why do people get reinfected with something like reused hydroton?
of course. No one said to nuke your plants til they die. You were the one claiming that the half life of imid is longer when its poured from the more concentrated bottle. So yes. We all agree what dilution means, and no one wants to overdose plants. Everything else imo is up for debate. So again, please educate everyone instead of ridiculing.
Jedi growers all over the country disagree with you. I'm not saying your wrong. But if its a ridiculous idea, i'm sure many people would LOVE the opportunity to be educated about it. S
Look man. All I'm doing is summarizing alot of info i've read that made sense. I'm not trying to piss on your cheerios bro, just spreading what is readily available with a little research. Not sure why we can't just discuss without the OMFG U ARE DELUDED type stuff. I could do the same to you too but where would that get us?
zor, RetroGrow, et al. thanks so much for trying to help others affected with these horrible sounding pests. fortunately for me I dug into one of my pots and microscoped the larvae in there and lucky me I just have fungus gnats! WHEW!
Retro, I don't refute your experience or your advice in any way, but maybe you should try discussing things civilly when someone has different viewpoints than you. you seem set on attacking zor no matter if his info is useful or not. As soon as he said "imid doesn't ALWAYS work on RA in every system" you flipped on him and have been hounding him relentlessly ever since. zor meanwhile has been remarkably civil and I give him mad props for carrying on trying to help the other guys out and basically shrugging off your personal attacks. Doesn't seem to me that he is out harmfully misinforming anyone. He's just out trying to help us other growers deal with this pest he clearly has some experience fighting too. And while I do also very much appreciate your contributing to this thread your input lately could basically be summed up by this " root aphids are horrible, they will ruin your life unless you poison them imeediately with imid, nothing else will stop them, you must use imid!! don't wait use it NOW!...p.s zor is a deluded fool" (repeat ad naseum)
fairly narrow view if you ask me. Some of us just won't go there with systemic poisons like that. There ARE other healthier more natural options to counter pests, even seemingly heinous tough little bastards like RA's. Maybe they won't work as well as the imid, I'm fortunate enough to not need to find out the hard way as you have. But I'm betting there are some other effective controls besides imid. Anyone tried nematodes on the RA's? Botaniguard is basically fungal spores and several people have reported it to be at least somewhat effective at helping CONTROL a RA outbreak sans poisonous chemicals. Notice I say control because 100% annihilation is great, but sometimes you have to settle for keeping things in check if you don't want to drench your soil with synthetic poison. Don't forget lots of us pot growers are "hippies". to use the parlance of our times...
I'm glad to hear that the sns-203 is helping with the aphids. Essential oils have been shown to be very effective in controlling many pests including insects, molds and fungus. I feel like a sap paying SNS their exorbitant price for the stuff(their other products are much more $$ too!!) but it's working VERY well against my fungus gnats as well and I'd MUCH rather spray clove and rosemary oil on my soil than just about anything else one might throw at em. 23$ to make ~8 gallons should last me quite a while too...
best of luck to all of you out there dealing with these critters
Retro, I don't refute your experience or your advice in any way, but maybe you should try discussing things civilly when someone has different viewpoints than you. you seem set on attacking zor no matter if his info is useful or not. As soon as he said "imid doesn't ALWAYS work on RA in every system" you flipped on him and have been hounding him relentlessly ever since. zor meanwhile has been remarkably civil and I give him mad props for carrying on trying to help the other guys out and basically shrugging off your personal attacks. Doesn't seem to me that he is out harmfully misinforming anyone. He's just out trying to help us other growers deal with this pest he clearly has some experience fighting too. And while I do also very much appreciate your contributing to this thread your input lately could basically be summed up by this " root aphids are horrible, they will ruin your life unless you poison them imeediately with imid, nothing else will stop them, you must use imid!! don't wait use it NOW!...p.s zor is a deluded fool" (repeat ad naseum)
fairly narrow view if you ask me. Some of us just won't go there with systemic poisons like that. There ARE other healthier more natural options to counter pests, even seemingly heinous tough little bastards like RA's. Maybe they won't work as well as the imid, I'm fortunate enough to not need to find out the hard way as you have. But I'm betting there are some other effective controls besides imid. Anyone tried nematodes on the RA's? Botaniguard is basically fungal spores and several people have reported it to be at least somewhat effective at helping CONTROL a RA outbreak sans poisonous chemicals. Notice I say control because 100% annihilation is great, but sometimes you have to settle for keeping things in check if you don't want to drench your soil with synthetic poison. Don't forget lots of us pot growers are "hippies". to use the parlance of our times...
I'm glad to hear that the sns-203 is helping with the aphids. Essential oils have been shown to be very effective in controlling many pests including insects, molds and fungus. I feel like a sap paying SNS their exorbitant price for the stuff(their other products are much more $$ too!!) but it's working VERY well against my fungus gnats as well and I'd MUCH rather spray clove and rosemary oil on my soil than just about anything else one might throw at em. 23$ to make ~8 gallons should last me quite a while too...
best of luck to all of you out there dealing with these critters
The guys been trolling me.
He's spreading disinformation.
SNS203 does NOT kill RAs.
We've already covered that, and several people have posted that it made their plants worse.
In nature, RAs live in soil, not coconut husks.
They can be spread by bags of soil, but not from bags of coco, where they don't live.
They don't crawl into holes in bags of coco in hydro stores, lying in wait. That's utterly absurd. They go where there are plants.
And never did I say, as he mistakenly alleged, that imid will fix your problems every time, but it is one of two things that are proven to work, along with Botaniguard.
Nothing else has been proven to work.
If you catch them too late, after the damage has been done, nothing will help.
You just have to start over.
Since you've never had RAs, you obviously have no experience fighting them.
But if you ever do get them, do not listen to zor and treat with sns-203, or you will have dead plants.
But, if you do get them, go with one of the two things that are known to work if you want to save your plants.
If you get potting soil, you must sterilize it first to prevent pathogens.
Good quality coco is already sterilized, but it's not to kill RAs, which don't live in it to begin with.
And you know this how? I found a couple of posts using search with one guy talking about how he used to kill the fliers that the imid didnt kill. What am i missing?
If your theory holds true. One could put a bag of coco in an infected room, and as long as the coco had no plants in it, the aphids would leave the coco alone and not plop eggs in there? Would you use that coco in your next grow?
Furthemore, what if its a bag of 'premium coco coir potting soil'? Do the aphids somehow know its ok to attack now?
What qualifies as 'proven' to you?
lol first of all, i havent told anyone to use any particular method. And its hilarious how you'd go so far as to tell people that if they listen to me they'll kill there plants ROFL. All i've done is relay my experience and things ive read. I've not TOLD anyone to use any particular method. The only request ive made of anyone is for you to backup and explain your rhetoric.
A few things I've noticed.
Inside Coco Drain to waste
The RA i have really wreck havoc on the crown of the plant(above and below soil line), pythium sets in, ph drops to below 5.5 causing plant to lockout and quit drinking. Downward spiral from here, I notice mainly K and P defs and N tox
The micros are really really small and you can not see them without a loupe, don't think you can. I had assumed all was well with no fliers and then bam. If you look at your soil through magnification it gives you much better perspective on the problem, or so it did me.
The best give away that you have them is the waxy salt buildup lookalike on the top of your soil.
Plants further from lights generally look better.
Imidacloprid 1.5% @ 10ml/g once weekly for 3 weeks in veg or early flower. Back off on watering a lot, and lower your room temps so the medium is cooler and less prone to rot. Only apply when really dry(important for efficacy) and don't wash it out over the next few days, its easy to do. Also might want to back off on nutes if plant isn't drinking much
Bleach at 1ml/10g seems to have no ill effects
Yellow sticky traps with light shining on them.
These things are really hard to get rid of in a perpetual and one could advocate alternating other pesticides.
Has anyone tried a insecticidal soap dunk in late flower with any success? that one report said it was somewhat effective but i haven't tried it. I am also top dressing with Diatomaceous Earth though i don't know if its effective.
If your plants aren't taking up water you can hit them with imid but then seriously don't give them any more water until they dry. As in don't water another pesticide next day. I've read to keep watering the sickly plants and that they will get better because of the exchange of oxygen and coco. In terms of RA and the subsequent root rot I have not found this true.
Someone else said Tanglefoot I think that's a generally good idea, ordered some to try.
RA re-infect clones
Take your time and observe observe observe
Can these things live on dead but not dried leaves?
I hate these bugs and thanks all for your help.
Inside Coco Drain to waste
The RA i have really wreck havoc on the crown of the plant(above and below soil line), pythium sets in, ph drops to below 5.5 causing plant to lockout and quit drinking. Downward spiral from here, I notice mainly K and P defs and N tox
The micros are really really small and you can not see them without a loupe, don't think you can. I had assumed all was well with no fliers and then bam. If you look at your soil through magnification it gives you much better perspective on the problem, or so it did me.
The best give away that you have them is the waxy salt buildup lookalike on the top of your soil.
Plants further from lights generally look better.
Imidacloprid 1.5% @ 10ml/g once weekly for 3 weeks in veg or early flower. Back off on watering a lot, and lower your room temps so the medium is cooler and less prone to rot. Only apply when really dry(important for efficacy) and don't wash it out over the next few days, its easy to do. Also might want to back off on nutes if plant isn't drinking much
Bleach at 1ml/10g seems to have no ill effects
Yellow sticky traps with light shining on them.
These things are really hard to get rid of in a perpetual and one could advocate alternating other pesticides.
Has anyone tried a insecticidal soap dunk in late flower with any success? that one report said it was somewhat effective but i haven't tried it. I am also top dressing with Diatomaceous Earth though i don't know if its effective.
If your plants aren't taking up water you can hit them with imid but then seriously don't give them any more water until they dry. As in don't water another pesticide next day. I've read to keep watering the sickly plants and that they will get better because of the exchange of oxygen and coco. In terms of RA and the subsequent root rot I have not found this true.
Someone else said Tanglefoot I think that's a generally good idea, ordered some to try.
RA re-infect clones
Take your time and observe observe observe
Can these things live on dead but not dried leaves?
I hate these bugs and thanks all for your help.
Good post.
Basically you summarized what I have been posting for years.
"The micros are really really small and you can not see them without a loupe, don't think you can. I had assumed all was well with no fliers and then bam. If you look at your soil through magnification it gives you much better perspective on the problem, or so it did me."
Right!
I have posted this a dozen times or more.
And treat when pots are dry.
Also posted this a dozen times.
If plants aren't drinking because of root damage, no amount of chems will help.
Another point: make a habit of checking your roots early so you can catch them early. I use see through cups for my starts so I can inspect my roots from the get go.
An ounce of protection is worth a pound of cure.
Insecticidal soap won't work on RAs. I've put RAs in a shotglass and submerged them in poison, and they do the backstroke and climb right out, unharmed.
"Can these things live on dead but not dried leaves?"
They live on roots, not leaves, but they can leave eggs on dried leaves, so keep everything as clean as possible.
Also, in recirculating systems, do a foliar spray. Imid can be used as a foliar. That's generally how farmers use it, but no one here seems to try it.
Basically you summarized what I have been posting for years.
"The micros are really really small and you can not see them without a loupe, don't think you can. I had assumed all was well with no fliers and then bam. If you look at your soil through magnification it gives you much better perspective on the problem, or so it did me."
Right!
I have posted this a dozen times or more.
And treat when pots are dry.
Also posted this a dozen times.
If plants aren't drinking because of root damage, no amount of chems will help.
Another point: make a habit of checking your roots early so you can catch them early. I use see through cups for my starts so I can inspect my roots from the get go.
An ounce of protection is worth a pound of cure.
Insecticidal soap won't work on RAs. I've put RAs in a shotglass and submerged them in poison, and they do the backstroke and climb right out, unharmed.
"Can these things live on dead but not dried leaves?"
They live on roots, not leaves, but they can leave eggs on dried leaves, so keep everything as clean as possible.
Also, in recirculating systems, do a foliar spray. Imid can be used as a foliar. That's generally how farmers use it, but no one here seems to try it.
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I had them pretty bad, spread through a perpetual in both veg and flower. Fortunately I was only in week 2 of flower or I would have hucked the flowering girls and started fresh.
Dosed them 1 Tablespoon per Gallon-with Bayers Fruit Citrus and Vegetable insect control (0.235% Imidacloprid). I do drain to waste with less then 10% run off. The following day was like a nuclear bug bomb went off. Everything stalled for about a week, but then blew up like nothing happen.
I take advice from those who've been there and done that so to speak, but I always try read up a lot before I ever make any final decisions. Thanks to this particular thread I learned a lot. Hopefully my experience can help someone else.
_UnknownProphet
Dosed them 1 Tablespoon per Gallon-with Bayers Fruit Citrus and Vegetable insect control (0.235% Imidacloprid). I do drain to waste with less then 10% run off. The following day was like a nuclear bug bomb went off. Everything stalled for about a week, but then blew up like nothing happen.
I take advice from those who've been there and done that so to speak, but I always try read up a lot before I ever make any final decisions. Thanks to this particular thread I learned a lot. Hopefully my experience can help someone else.
_UnknownProphet
qupee
Member
I found out I have these little bastards and probably have for months. And here I just thought I was still learning how to grow and not quite getting it, damn now I can't wait to see a run without these little pests killing me.
All my girls would look just perfect until after 3 weeks of flowering, then bam. all sorts of deficiencies I couldn't figure out. Was never sure if I was under feeding or over feeding, nothing I did helped.
I've known for a while that I have little fliers - they got really really bad last year before I started routinely putting up traps. It was this past week when I scoped the soil and found little tiny white/translucent crawlies throughout my root zone.
I've completely saturated all plants with Spectracide, and after 3 days soaking in that I'l be rinsing the soil out again with a light feed with Hygrozyme, Liquid Karma, and some root accelerator. I also pyrethrum bombed the rooms while they were wet with Spectracide.
Today or tomorrow I should have some Botaniguard in and I'll follow up with that.
I have hope that I can manage these little fuckers. This last harvest was the worst. 14 plants, and barely that many oz's - where I was expecting almost double that. Ugh.
All my girls would look just perfect until after 3 weeks of flowering, then bam. all sorts of deficiencies I couldn't figure out. Was never sure if I was under feeding or over feeding, nothing I did helped.
I've known for a while that I have little fliers - they got really really bad last year before I started routinely putting up traps. It was this past week when I scoped the soil and found little tiny white/translucent crawlies throughout my root zone.
I've completely saturated all plants with Spectracide, and after 3 days soaking in that I'l be rinsing the soil out again with a light feed with Hygrozyme, Liquid Karma, and some root accelerator. I also pyrethrum bombed the rooms while they were wet with Spectracide.
Today or tomorrow I should have some Botaniguard in and I'll follow up with that.
I have hope that I can manage these little fuckers. This last harvest was the worst. 14 plants, and barely that many oz's - where I was expecting almost double that. Ugh.
qupee
Member
Definitely. They look like this crawly, except mine were more just white.
They look like this. I just assumed they were mostly harmless fungas gnats for many months.
Yes, when checking the drain holes at the bottom of my pot under a scope it looked like there was lots of chunky pieces of white waxy stuff.
3 days ago I saturated the soil with Spectracide at label strength.
Tonight I flushed. The soil was still very wet, only just starting to show signs of drying. I applied a mixture of tap water (100 ppm) with CalMag (3ml/g), PBP Bloom Soil (7ml/g), FloraNectar (4ml/g), Liquid Karma (10ml/g), Hygrozyme (10ml/g), Roots Excelurator (1ml/g) and 3% H2O2 (1/2oz/g).
My theory was that, with such wet medium and slow uptake, I only get one shot for the next 3-4 days, so I wanted to provide a full spectrum of nutrients as well as root growth stimulators, enzyme treatment for dead root tissue, and hydrogen peroxide to provide oxygen to the water logged roots and hopefully disinfect some of the undoubtedly rotting roots. I was uncertain, however, if the h2o2 would make the hygrozyme ineffective.
By the time I was finished watering, there was dramatic visible recovery. Many dying yellow leaves with severe mottling and and spotting are flush, lush green. Leaves are perk and full. It's too bad I don't have a good before pic.
Yes, yes, and yes. Like clockwork, 3.5 weeks into flower. Some strains worse than others but all severely affected.
Four tents for flowering, two 1k, two 400w. Various veg areas in cabinets. Spans two adjacent rooms. fair air exchange, no co2.
Fox Farms Ocean Forrest mixed with Light Warrior 3:1 in 7"x7" square plastic pots. Approx 1 plant per square foot.
Pure Blend Pro, usually light feeding rarely over 1000ppm.
I have been when faced with phantom deficiencies. Liquid Karma and PBP Grow or Bloom depending, sometimes with Hygrozyme. I don't pH the spray, assume it's close to 7, between 6-8 for sure.
ahh I got em bad I thought they were just fungus gnats and have been using gnatrol with some success now this run is almost done Im thinking about scraping everything. What should i do to prevent reinfection after starting up again. Does bleach work? should i get bontiguard and treat early with that and gnatrol? Im thinking with no plants in the house will they die off in a week with no roots to feed on?
qupee
Member
Bleach does not work. The eggs have been shown to survive 7 minutes of submersion in bleach.
I would say treat early with an Imidcloprid product like Bayer. It is systemic and will kill aphids that try to feed on the plant. Of course, you'll have to be ok with using a non-organic systemic pesticide, but from what I gather Imid is one of the safer ones. They use it in pet flea shampoos.
Botaniguard is good, but I believe it will only kill what's present at the time of application. You can rotate with Botaniguard in veg and even use it in flower. It's good to use two or three pesticides with different modes of action. No one pesticide will kill 100% of these aphids, and over time the population of those resistant to your one product will grow until it is a serious problem. But if you constantly apply two or three products as a preventative it will be very difficult for an aphid population to take hold.
