Forcing solutions. What brands are they?

[Telegraphist.]

I have used GH Ripen for years now but what other makes are out there?

I was told many moons ago that Ripen is only ionic salts so ok for hydro while other forcing solutions use carbohydrates, enzymes, hormones etc what look ok only for soil use. Is this correct?

What brands are good for what growing mediums?

 

[Telegraphist.]

Bump

Hangover is over people so please pitch in with what data you have please


nyy27 this is aimed at you. GH Ripen is only ionic salts, no organics what so ever, just ionic mineral salts, so how does this pathway of mainly trace elements and Mg trigger the reaction it does in the plant.

What about the ones that use halogenated silane or the ones that use carbohydrates with hormones, how they work?

Whay about jasmonic acid added to them, would it work or just fight against each other and just stress plant the wrong way?

 

[supermanlives]

i just yell at em, seems to work. i dont force anything

 

[Telegraphist.]

A whole international online community and nobody using ripening agents, or forcing solutions?

What about all you growers who experiment with energy drinks for the plants last week or so, any data?, any ideas?

 

[Telegraphist.]

Bump

Somebody out there must have some data of some description on forcing solutions etc, I am not the first to experiment with them

 

[high road]

just a bit of advice from someone who has played with this hobby for many many years.

there is no such thing...there are companies that will try and sell you ripeners, but's it's marketing, not science.

When playing mother earth, all you can do is give the plant all in needs to grow to to its full genetic potential....attempting to force the ripening process is noobilicious. Experiment all you want, you will will see the light soon enough.

there are many things you can do to pull everything out of your genetics...co2, max light, perfect environment, carbs, aminos, etc... stay away from the snake oils, it's deflecting your attention from the real variables that will actually make a difference for you.

 

[Telegraphist.]

Hi hr

Thanks for taking the time to reply, what i am looking for is something that supplies the hormones and other organics that tell the plant to focus on ripening.

Some are surcrose based around 2% with added hormones that play about with osmotic cell reactions, these i am interested in. I have got a few years growth experience so i know it all about enviroment and genetics but i want to see what happens when these hormones are used, just human nature to try and intervene and use science to be better

 

[Mr.Bigbud]

I used 'carboload' for the first time recently and the plants matured in about 2 days, ruined a whole crop. I won't use it again, but if you needed to finish some plants quickly that would do it! I tried to leave my plants hoping they would grow on but they didn't, adding carbs is a bad idea. I have noticed that the supplier I use has stopped stocking that crap so I assume they had some complaints from other customers to. Plants make their own sugars, but can't assimilate any that you add. An expensive lesson learned right there!!! If you have time on your side just let them go to the end, it's better for yield.

 

[high road]

mr bigbud...carbs didn't do that to your plant.

Plants do make their own sugars, it's called photosynthesis...and YES they can assimilate and use additional sugars.

Your supplier stopped stocking carboload because advanced nutrients is garbage. Not because plants can't assimilate sugars.

This board is sooo full of bad info....

 

[high road]

adding a carbohydrate based suppliment to your plants diet is beneficial, but does not ripen or quicken the ripening process at all.

Sugars are energy for plants, just like they are for us. The reason why they are beneficial to plants is because plants grown indoors in artificial environments rarely if ever photosynthesize at full potential....too many bottlenecks indoors. ....SO they rarely if ever have the full amount of sugars resulting from photosynthesis that are going to give them the full amount of energy that they potentially could have and need. Supplementing these sugars via carb additives give the plants extra sugars to store as if they were photosynthesizing at full potential.

End result. Plants have full amount of energy stored to grow to full potential, given that everything else in your garden is up to snuff. It has nothing to do with ripening and everything to do with maximizing potential....

 

[one Q]

Trying to "force" anything is not cool.

A good Ripe formula to me is just Low to NO Nitrogen and Normal to a little above Normal amounts of PK.

Thing is, once you go Lucas Ratio (formula) you stop using so many other bottles.

 

[Mr.Bigbud]

any evidence to support that claim high road? The only benefit of adding sugars is if your growing in soil, as they help to support the beneficial bacteria in the medium. It has been shown that roots are able to transport sugars, but there is no evidence to say that it does any good whatsoever. In fact, research has shown that it inhibits flowering.... but you would know that because of all the research you have obviously done on the subject.

 

[Mr.Bigbud]

Here's a little research from an actual scientist though as I'm not one! http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...9620.Bt.r.html


I hope this clears up that myth for you.

 

[Telegraphist.]

To everyone, a big thank you for your input. Many ideas and at least it shows my lack of knowledge of plant sugar synthesis and how they assimilate them at roots level also. (back to the textbooks). I grow hydro so carbs a big no no then, no soil bacteria for it to be food for

MrBb, i get an error from your link. Thanks for taking the time to post your views, appreciated

What about energy drinks and the sugars, vitamins, and other ingredients, anybody experimented with plants?

 

[Mr.Bigbud]

To everyone, a big thank you for your input. Many ideas and at least it shows my lack of knowledge of plant sugar synthesis and how they assimilate them at roots level also. (back to the textbooks). I grow hydro so carbs a big no no then, no soil bacteria for it to be food for

MrBb, i get an error from your link. Thanks for taking the time to post your views, appreciated

What about energy drinks and the sugars, vitamins, and other ingredients, anybody experimented with plants?

Yeah I just checked it and got an error too! if you copy and paste the address in you should get there though! I did a whole load of research into adding sugars and it's a definate no no, unless you want the plants to finish overnight. The reason this happens is that sugars stop the plants taking up water, so they mature because they are dying!! I see many US growers adding mollases and stuff because 'high times' published an article stating that it's good for plants..... they don't say who's research that is based on though, and they have published lot's of crap advice over the years, amongst some quite good advice. If plant biologists say it stunts growth in small dose's and kills plants in large dose's then thats good enough for me, I don't care what high times thinks, what do they know? They are publishers, not plant biologists!

 

[high road]

I suspect you know a little how plants absorb substances from the soil....
Water enters plant cells by moving from higher water potential to lower water potential. Water potential is composed both of solute potential(osmotic potential) and pressure potential, which in root cells is negative because of the suction force that originates due to evaporation in leaves. Capillary action contributes to the ascension of water in the xylem, but it does not help the water get there.

Now, on the absorption of solutes: ions are taken up through SPECIFIC transport. Each ion has a special transport protein for its uptake in the endodermis. Cations are usually taken up through uniporters, after being displaced from the binding to soil particles by H+ ions contributed by plant cells. Anions are usually taken up through symporters with H+. Not all particles in solution can be taken up by root cells: a specific transporter is needed for each substance.

1. Sucrose can and is absorbed via roots. However, its transport is linked to K+ ion.
2. External sucrose intake (in large amounts) could impede photosynthesis (no need to produce sugar) and produce paler plants.

DON'T OVERDO SUGARS....In proper amounts, they can be extremely beneficial in indoor environments where photosynthesis is bottlenecked.... Read on.

Here are a few links that might help..

http://www.pearsoned.ca/school/science11/biology11/sugartransport.html
=-----
"Sugars relating to plant functions for maximum economic production.
Texas Plant & Soil Lab, Inc., Texas Plant & Soil Lab (Home)

Environmental factors that affect when and how much sugar to use:
a. How much nitrate is in the soil, and plant sap (petiole test).
b. Soil moisture conditions.
c. Sunlight intensity.
d. Temperature.
e. Wind
f. Fruiting stage / load
g. Growth / vigor [shade lower leaves]

The right amount at the right time can improve fruiting and produce normal
plant growth with less attraction for disease and insects.

Needed for healthy plants - fruit production - plant development &
maturity.
Roots take nutrients from the soil and transport them up the stalk thru the
petiole (stem) to the leaves where the sunlight aids the production of
photosynthates (sugars are not the ONLY product of photosynthesis)
carbohydrates (C, H & O), principally glucose (C6H12O6) and then other sugars and photosynthates are formed.

Plant Sugars and other photosynthates are first translocated (boron is essential to the translocation) to a fruiting site. If fruit is not available, the sugars, along with excess nitrates, spur the rapid vegetative growth of the plant at the expense of creating fruiting bodies (first sink) for the storage of the sugars.

Once the proper balance of environmental factors (heat units, light intensity, soil moisture, nutrient balance, etc) are met, the fruiting buds form and then fruit formation gets the first crack at the sugar supply.

Any excess sugars are then translocated to the number two sink, (growing terminals,) to speed their growth. The left-over sugars, etc. then go to the number 3 sink, (the roots,) to aid their growth. Here the new root hairs take up nutrients to help continue the cycle of sugar and other photosynthate production, fruiting, growth of terminals and roots.

ADDED SUGARS CAN AID THE PLANT IN SEVERAL WAYS:
- MOLASSES is probably the best outside source of many sugars, such as table sugar, corn syrup and several more complex sugars such as polysaccharides found in humus products.
- Sugar can be added to the soil in irrigation water, drip & pivot being the most effective.

In the soil it can:

- Feed microbes to stimulate the conversion of nitrates to the more efficient NH2 form of N to synthesize protein more directly by the plants.

- The roots can directly absorb some of the sugars into the sap stream to supplement the leaf supply to fruit where it is most needed, and ALSO directly feed the roots for continued productive growth.

- This ADDED sugar can also help initiate fruiting buds in a steady-slow
fashion while maintaining normal growth.

-EXCESSIVE amounts of ADDED SUGARS applied foliarly can shock the
plant resulting in shortened growth internodes, increased leaf maturity & initiation of excess fruiting sites. This can be a short term effect lasting only a few days.

Pollination, soil moisture, nutrient balance and sufficiency as well as adequate light for photosynthate production decide how much of the induced fruit can mature."

=--------------

"Cell membranes will allow small molecules like Oxygen, water, Carbon Dioxide, Ammonia, Glucose, amino-acids, etc. to pass through"
http://www.purchon.com/biology/osmosis.htm

=-----------------------

 

[PetFlora]

just a bit of advice from someone who has played with this hobby for many many years.

there is no such thing...there are companies that will try and sell you ripeners, but's it's marketing, not science.

When playing mother earth, all you can do is give the plant all in needs to grow to to its full genetic potential....attempting to force the ripening process is noobilicious. Experiment all you want, you will will see the light soon enough.

there are many things you can do to pull everything out of your genetics...co2, max light, perfect environment, carbs, aminos, etc... stay away from the snake oils, it's deflecting your attention from the real variables that will actually make a difference for you.

High Road is spot on.

Most people do not provide enough light, maintain proper pH, proper feeding schedules and so on, and when their plants are not nugging up, they look for a magic bullet.

The magic bullet is study before you grow, although there is nothing like OJT. Until you become somewhat proficient only use bag seed. Trust me, the lessons are pretty expensive

 

[Mr.Bigbud]

High road, did you even read that article? 'Cell membranes will allow small molecules like Oxygen, water, Carbon Dioxide, Ammonia, Glucose, amino-acids, etc. to pass through. Cell membranes will not allow larger molecules like Sucrose, Starch, protein, etc. to pass through.' nuff said. Its long been known that plants can transport sugars, but its also never been proven to be of any benefit. In fact most research indicates that adding sugars will stunt growth and prevent proper water uptake. Different strokes I suppose, whatever works for you, but I'm steering well clear. Just the nutrients in my tank!

 

[high road]

glucose can pass through and after a little bit of work by the microbes the larger sucrose molecules will be broken down into glucose and fructose, which again are simple sugars small enough to be taken in by plants.

You don't have to have sugars to grow fast growing high yeilding plants. BUT they do work and they can help in indoor gardens where energy and photosynthesis is bottle necked.

Don't write them off completely and don't advise they they don't do anything, because they really do. I have no investment in telling you this other than the fact that I know the truth and want to share my knowledge with the cannabis growing community.

I have done studies on this myself, not referencing others studies. I have first hand experimentation and knowledge gained through conversations with PhD's and plant and plant food specialists. I can't link you to my work otherwise you would know who I am....and that doesn't work. I can tell you that the studies that you are reading are old, and inaccurate. Sugars if provided in the right amount and the right time can be beneficial.

Don't trust me, ask the specialists, they will say the same thing....

Jeff Lowenfels, author of a weekly gardening column for 20 years and many many gardening books including one that should be in all our libraries, "Teaming with Microbes"
http://home.gci.net/~jeff/gardener/

Larry Brooks, owner, founder of General Hydroponics
Roy Gomez, owner, founder of Humboldt Nutrients
Jason Goodman, owner, founder of Technaflora

Feel free to call and ask them their take on whether or not plants can take in simple sugars. Call Jeff Lowenfels and ask him if the soil food web will break down Sucrose into smaller simpler sugars glucose and fructose. Ask them if these sugars will be beneficial to plant growth or detrimental. You will get the same answer I have given you. And these guys are experts in their respective fields.

 

[Wait...What?]

please explain how photosynthesis 'bottlenecks' as I'm not following the reasoning here.

I've also never heard of anyone growing any other crop adding sugar to their nutrient regime. The placebo effect is very strong amongst pot growers...

and multiple anecdotes don't count as a data set.